Talk:Count Dooku/Archive 1

Dropping a Count Dooku
I believe that the reference to poop should stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.225.101.96 (talk) 18:56, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Power
I think that Count Dooku is less powerful then master Yoda. Yoda could win the fight if he would not save Anakin and Obi. --Anon.


 * Perhaps he is, though I see little reason to point this out in the article. Further more I don't find it advisable to base that assumption on the fight in question for many reasons. One could argue that the fight was a stalemate. I know it is the fan concencus that Yoda "Kicked Ass" so to speak, but if he had really been so victorious surely he would have won the battle proper despite Dooku's distraction tactic. The question of who is more powerful can not be answere by one fight. -- Kikimad 01/05/2006


 * Kikimad is right. Saying 'Yoda was clearly the superior fighter' based on that fight (in which Dooku held his own, and, may I point out, did technically win - he escaped) is an opinion, which really shouldn't be there. -- 2nd Anon.

What is the support for the statement that only Yoda and Dooku are the equals of Windu for swordsmen?

What makes no sense to me is that they say, "Anakin's power in the Force has by now far surpassed Dooku's" and yet he has never been able to shoot lightning and nearly loses to OB1 which reduces him to machine where Dooku has defeated OB1 twice easily. Dooku beats Yoda and yet Yoda is said to be superior? Yoda also had no foresight of Palpatine??? I just find the story line lacking. Anyone have any thoughts or clarifications on this? --G

The problem that Anakin had/has, is that exactly because he became a machine he could not shoot Sith lightning, and before he became Darth Vader, he did not sway to the dark side enough. As to the loss to Obi-wan, that was because Darth Vader was angry, and let his anger cloud his judgement (spoken like a true Jedi!). In the movie he jumped forward, not realizing Obi-wan has the higher ground, and loses. Dooku can be considered more powerful than Obi-wan, but I feel it should also be kept in mind that Dooku taught Qui-gon Jin, Obi-wan's master, and may know more about Obi-wan's swordfighting style than Obi-wan thinks. As to the battle with Yoda, Dooku caused a distraction which put lives of 2 Jedi at stake. Yoda would not throw their lives away to get Dooku, and so stayed and tried to focus on getting the massive pillar off them. If they were on a flat plain, or on a planet with solid rock for ground, and no other Jedi or distractions, Yoda would definitely win. To be kept in mind: Yoda was the master of Thame Cerulian, who was master to Count Dooku. About the "no foresight of Palpatine" part, if you have read Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" series, it suggest that if a user of the Dark Side hides and blends in an are with the Light Side, the Force will balance out, and nothing will be felt, like positive and negative charges. This also explains (in my opinion) why Yoda was never found by the Empire on Dagobah: The dark side aura canceled out the feeling of the light side. Hope this answers all your questions! Salporin (talk) 04:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Undetected vandalism
Why, precisely, does this article include Dooku ordering a "Cum-Shot"???


 * Because some enjoy vandalizing Wikipedia. I've removed it. --Maru (talk) Contribs 00:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.105.149.207 (talk)

Categorization
I've been categorizing; and I am torn: should I add the Category:Dark Jedi to Dooku? The article is not clear as to whether Dooku went Sith immediately, or whether his studies in the archive corrupted him into a Dark Jedi and he later became a Sith. --Maru (talk) 01:32, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Any objections to me categorizing this fellow under Category:Fictional racists?--Lenin & McCarthy 20:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No but it looks like you'd have to create it first. A gx7 00:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes???
The "Behind the Scenes" segment is pretty interesting and well written, but I don't think it belongs in the article on Count Dooku. We should delete it from this article and place it in Christopher Lee's bio.

Any thoughts? Ramsquire 20:58, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Ataru in Dooku?
Where can you find Dooku mastering Ataru? Please post it up or the section should be removed. All i could find is Dooku mastered Makashi. Darth Kevinmhk 04:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Please Verify the Following
The section "Lightsaber Training" has no verifiable source.
 * Dooku learned Ataru during early life - No source support it as far as i concern
 * Dooku second only to Yoda: Debatable
 * In one of the SW novels (could be Shatterpoint), it says about Dookus fighting skills: "Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground...". Yet I will have to admit that I am not a SW geek and have not read the book myself. Just stumbled across this quote on some website and thought I'd share. LoneWolfJack 08:53, 21 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Dooku tried to pass Form II to Jinn - Again no source
 * Anakin always used Form V
 * No source indicated Dooku further train his Form II during the war

I have checked the following sources:
 * EP2 AOTC Novel
 * EP3 ROTS Novel
 * EP2 + EP3 Visual Dictionaries
 * Wookieepedia: Dooku's page, Yoda's page and all the seven forms' pages
 * Labyrinth of Evil
 * Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
 * The Cestus Deception
 * Shatterpoint
 * Republic Comic series up to Issue 81
 * Jedi Comic the whole series
 * Star Wars.com Databanks
 * Star Wars Insider 62 (Lightsaber Combat)

It should be removed from the article if no one can provide the source. Darth Kevinmhk 16:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

There is one book, I think called "Path of the Jedi", which says a lot about forms, and about everything. You should find what you want there. Salporin (talk) 15:05, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Bias towards Yoda
Ok, this a a re-occuring theme that I believe should be dealt with. A lot of articles refer to Yoda as being "the most powerful swordsman" I find this to be highly debatable. How can one be sure of this? Personally I believe Mace to be a better swordsman and Luke to be just as good at controlling the force, ie when he is Grand Jedi Master in the New Jedi Order. So comments like;

"His mastery of Form II indeed made him arguably the greatest swordsman of the Jedi Order (second only to Yoda, who was the greatest swordsman ever in the galaxy.)"

I believe should be removed or even made more subtle to;

"His mastery of Form II made him a great swordsman, rivaling some of the Order's best combatant's including Yoda."

This negates the somewhat bias opinion. Also it doesn't say he is better, it simply states he was a match for Yoda. My personal opinion is that Dooku could have won that fight, simply because Makashi is a much more suited form of combat for duelling than Ataru. Note: Anakin was using Form V which is also based on duelling when he killed Dooku on the Invisible Hand.

So yes, just something I think should be verified. I noticed a couple of people agree with me, as seen in previous topics above. If at the least simply add in argurably so, "His mastery of Form II indeed made him arguably the greatest swordsman of the Jedi Order (second only to Yoda, who was (argurably) the greatest swordsman ever in the galaxy.)

--Black Hope


 * "perhaps the greatest lightsaber master the Jedi Order has ever seen" (refering to Yoda) was mentioned in Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat article in Insider 62. I know there was the word perhaps, but still, Dooku's name did not appear as another perhaps :) Anyway, Yoda / Sidious are the greatest KNOWN master of Form IV; a healthy Ani/Vader can get a level 9, as strong as Yoda & Sidious (Nick Gillard's words); plus Mace Windu become a unique and powerful swordsman with Vaapad; and while Dooku's Form II mastery is great, he cannot stand against strength move; Obi-Wan, a level 8 Form III master, use "simple is better than complex" and "perfect defense ensure safety" to deal with the other crazily powerful swordsman. In my opinion, the 6 of them are the greatest swordsbeings in the old Jedi Order, although Yoda/Sidious/Ani are arguably the better in the 6. Darth Kevinmhk 03:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes Lucasarts has officially stated before that Darth Sidous and Yoda are just one step below the best lightsaber rating. No one is at the best rating though. Jedi6  -(need help?)  03:55, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup, both Homing Beacon and Nick Gillard had said so. Thus, the article favoring Yoda a little more is arguably justified. Darth Kevinmhk 03:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Points taken. I'm just a edgy on it all. Sure Yoda/Sidious might be the best users of Ataru, but its not the best for lightsaber duelling either. But yes I see the points, one thing however the article says "second only to Yoda". I find that rather inaccurate to, taking Mace, Anakin and Obi-Wan (all at their peaks in episode III). I just think it all contradicts itself a little. Everyone has their opinions on things. Personally I see Mace and Obi-Wan being the better duelests. Still Majority rules :) so you guys are correct. --Black Hope

Someone said that Mace is better than Yoda, this is not true. Accoring to starwars.com, Mace was only outmatched by Yoda and Dooku. This makes Dooku the second best swordsman while he was in the order. Emperor001 18:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Tyranus or Dooku?
Vader has a different article than Anakin Skywalker, and Sidious has a different article than/soft redirect to Palpatine... Should there be a soft redirect for Darth Tyranus as well, since the fact that he's a Sith Lord isn't revealed until the end of Episode II? TTE 02:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Nah. There isn't a real split in characters like for Anakin and Vader, and Sidious is a soft-redirect simply because apparently a fair number of people don't realize that Senator Palpatine == the evil Sith Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious. --maru   (talk)  contribs 22:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Height
The IMDB lists Christopher Lee's height as 6'5", not 6'4". Is Dooku supposed to be shorter, is this article wrong, or is the IMDB wrong? 70.50.55.19 21:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Well maybe if Lee's grown since he played Count Dooku?

Anon


 * No, you're both wrong. I researched it, his height is actually 6 feet, 4.563 inches. --A gx7 00:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Anon

Deletion
I am going to delete this from the category Film villains because all sw villains are placed in the sub category star wars villains

Deletion from Category: Fictional Racists
I've deleted the category fictional racists from this article. Since there is no evidence of Dooku being a racist. In EP II, he worked with a diverse cast of aliens and humans, which would not support such a characterization. Ramsquire 23:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

You haven't read the Episode III novelization have you? It explictly states that he hated non-human species. Sure he was willing to work with them, but it certainly didn't mean he liked them. --Spencer &quot;The Belldog&quot; Bermudez |  (Complain here) 08:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Like most people, I just watch the movies, but if there is something in the novelization about him hating alien species, add it to the article. I don't want to get into an argument about whether the novelization is canon and other such issues. Ramsquire 17:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's already there. See the biography paragraph. --Spencer &quot;The Belldog&quot; Bermudez |  (Complain here) 19:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * My mistake, I'll re-add the cat. Ramsquire 20:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The SW films take precedent over Expanded Universe content. And in the films, Dooku is seen interacting with many alien races and no proof is shown of any racism.
 * The proof is shown in the Episode III novelization. Nothing in the films proves he is not a "racist." Jon Hart 18:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

___ That's something that didn't make any sense to me at all. That seems more like what the writers of the books wanted than what the wrters of the films wanted.
 * George Lucas went over the Episode III novelization line by line. Jon Hart 18:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Got a source for that assertion? Cheers --DarthBinky 18:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * http://boards.theforce.net/authors_artists/b10347/5816889/p46 - ". . . the REVENGE OF THE SITH adaptation has finally gone through its revision (including painstaking line-editing by Mr. Lucas Himself, who apparently wanted to make sure I didn't screw anything up) . . ." Jon Hart 23:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Outstanding! --DarthBinky 00:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Dooku in Video Gmes
Should there be anything about his appearances in Star Wars Battlefront II? I just noticed it was missing and wondered if it was revelant to the topic. Whetstone333 21:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Count-Duke
Ok, i understand that there is absolutely no proof for this, but, there is a rare spanish term which is Conde-Duque, literally Count-Duke. Could this be where Lucas produced Dooku's name? (For info on this, search Count, 2.3 ''compound and related titles) Mace Windu 00:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Makashi!!!
He mastered Makashi, not Ataro!! Ataro is the form mastered by Yoda...

Pieeeeeee 17:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC) Cheese222

Move
We should move this to Dooku because count is a rank.--Owl 2 16:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Probably a stupid question
I just watched SWII:TCW again and I noticed something. Lucas seems to be in love with the idea of alluding to the original films, ripping scenes and dialogue wholesale from them and turning them to suit the new films. In the scene where Dooku talks to the imprisoned Obi-Wan, he tries to turn him, as Vader did Luke in ESB. The dialogue is nearly word-for-word the same, down to the defiant, "I'll never join you!" So my stupid question is, is it at all possible that Dooku is Obi-Wan's father? Has it ever been mentioned or hinted at anywhere else? This is probably my imagination running away with me here.Bwanderson 06:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

No--Max Mayr 22:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Dooku.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

So really he is the good guy?
I mean... I kinda get mixed up with the politics of star wars, but in the end would the seperatists be classed as the good guys as they oppose the Republic (soon the be empire)?

Not to say the jedi are bad, but were fighting for the wrong side.. in a sense? 172.203.147.196 (talk) 17:37, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

In Star Wars ep.2 The CIS is seen as the bad guys. However the star wars universe is not black and white. I see it as the CIS was a percusser(sp?) of the Rebal Allience.3rd captian Gin Ichimaru (talk) 11:52, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

What are his real politics?
The article (and the film) seem to imply that Dooku's goal is seperatism - his goal is to "save the Republic from the influence of a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious" - according to what he tells Obi Wan, and this article states: "Dooku is angered by the bureaucracy of the Galactic Senate, as well as the apparent unwillingness of the Jedi Council to aid oppressed galactic systems. Qui-Gon's death at the hands of Sidious' apprentice, Darth Maul, proves to be the final straw."

Is this a lie, or is separatism what he truely believes? It makes perfect sense for him to be against the senate and the Jedi if he thinks Sidious is controlling it... but the problem is... he becomes Sidious' apprentice... why would he do this if Sidious' control over the senate and killing of Qui-Gon are his reasons for being dissatisfied with the status quo? TheHYPO (talk) 05:34, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Count Dooku was right.
Count Dooku saw that the Repubic was falling apart. Before his death he saw that he was being used. I am not a fanboy just getting seddemental(sp?). Count Dooku forsees the fall of the Republic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3rd captian Gin Ichimaru (talk • contribs) 11:47, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Actor Christopher Lee often portrayed Dracula
Actor Christopher Lee, who portrays Count Dooku, often portrayed Dracula, as well as other horror monsters, during his long career. Josh-Levin@ieee.org (talk) 14:21, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Much more to the point - Count Dooku, after all, is not a monster - he portrayed Saruman, which is just about 100% the same character. In fact, seeing that Fellowship came first, what he is doing in Attack of the Clones is basically a reprise of his Lord of the Rings character, with less beard and hair. (I watched Attack of the Clones before looking at the cast, and knowing a bit about both book and films of Lord of the Rings, my first thought was something like: What, so Saruman has a rôle here too? Second thought: wait, this just may really be Christopher Lee, had better look up the cast.--2001:A61:3A20:8B01:D894:A0B1:4228:F1BB (talk) 22:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Fictional Romanian?
DarthKurgan (talk) 03:57, 29 June 2016 (UTC)He's categorized as such right now. Unless there's a Romania, Serenno that is nigh unlikely. Whether the more likely scenario where it is a joke or the less likely where it was a mistake I figure that should be fixed.


 * Thanks for catching that. --EEMIV (talk) 11:40, 29 June 2016 (UTC)