Talk:Counter-Strike (video game)/Archive 1

Mirroring
I have just expanded the criticisms section with a little on the history, reasons and ramifications of "mirroring". I really ought to have a source for the bit about how Gooseman preferred to model weapons in the left hand, but I'm afraid I read it in an interview about five years ago and I just remember him saying something to that effect, so I don't. I also added another counterargument to the thing about different guns of the same calibre doing different amounts of damage (differently powered cartridges). --YourMessageHere 00:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Professional CS
This is somewhat unrelated to the Counter-Strike page, but I'm no Wikipedia expert. I just want to point out this site, Professional counter-strike. It really seems like a plain self-promotion page. Some valid tactics and tips. Other things there are plainly unconnected to anything besides the authors site. Anybody willing to clean it up? Wahming 02:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads up, I will nominated the article for deletion. - RoyBoy 800 03:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

More Appropriate Bomb Defusal Picture
The current bomb plant picture is taken in Counter-Strike Source, I would think that a picture taken in Counter-Strike would be more appropriate. Credema 06:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Map types
I reduced the content of this section down to simply a link to Counter-Strike maps, and changed the name to "Maps". The list of maps really didn't serve a purpose in the main Counter-Strike article, as it was nothing but a bulleted list, took up space (the article was up to 38kb before I did this, and could still use a bit of whittling down), and wasn't particularly useful; not to mention that the "Commonly played unofficial maps" subsection was nothing but original research, and highly debatable original research at that (see the AfD for "Custom Counter-Strike maps"). Hargle 14:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Skins
Do you think we should add a section on the Skins you can play as? (e.g. SAS, Phoenix Connection). If so then i'll be happy to start it.


 * There was a scetion on Models until two days ago. User:JimmyBlackwing removed it with this comment: removed Player models section - non-notable trivia unnecessary for this article. Do not revert without first bringing it up on talk page


 * I think it's relevant information as indicated by your post asking whether you should add the section. --Habap 16:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

(Original Poster): Thanks for the feedback, if you still think it is relevant then i'll add it as soon as possible.

External Link addition
Counter-Strike.com seems like a pretty obvious addition that's not currently in the external links. They are pretty well known for their community content. Forums, downloads, guides, strategy, mods...anyone disagree?

Abbynormal1 08:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I've not heard anyone disagree that Counter-Strike.com belongs in the external links due to it's large amount of community content. I'm therefore requesting the protected page be edited to include the link, which I believe used to be there. The link used to be something like:

Counter-Strike.com -- Counter-Strike servers, forums, downloads, guides.

Something like that would be appropriate, imho.
 * If you read above you can see that an argument against that website has' been made already. Please respond to that argument if you wish the link to be included. Thanks! JesseW, the juggling janitor 18:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism and Poor Reverts
Could we please take a look at what we're reverting to, I've just reverted to a copy of the article from 11 March. There's been quite a lot of vandalism and then reverts to a vandalised version since then. Make sure you're not reverting to a vandalised version. - Hahnchen 06:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering why people take off www.counter-strike.com from the links. Thanks --Marc 04:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * counter-strike.com is a website for selling Counter-Strike web servers. The official site was originally located at counter-strike.net, but has since been moved to http://storefront.steampowered.com/v2/index.php?area=game&AppId=240 (now a redirect there) —Last Avenue [ talk | contributions ] 05:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * someone should ban Abbynormal1, he keeps putting that site back on the article, I saw his talk page and he's had so many warnings and no one is taking the initiative. angers 23:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I should be banned for adding Counter-Strike.com to the Counter-Strike wiki? Wow. I've not had "so many warnings" I've had one, and it was about an unrelated site. That dispute was resolved. I'm an active and thorough contributor, please explain more why I should be banned, bud. Let me add that I added the external link only after giving it lots of time under Pointless Links. See below. --Abbynormal1 04:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * someone has vandalized it< how do i report? or could someone else?


 * It's alright, some twunt replaced the whole thing with "this game rox!!!!" and a kind chappy (or chappess) reverted it to my original version. Pizza has added things since.

Weapons market?
This is only a change to Counter-Strike: Source, and I don't see why it should be included here. Just as the page on Doom 1 wouldn't contain info on every update to Doom 3, this is unrelated information.
 * I agree, it should be removed, it relates to a successor of 1.6, but not CS 1.6 itself, so therefore it should be abolished completely from the "Counter-Strike" page --Ccolling 02:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Pointless Links
I Have Deleted the "INTHEHOLE" link, this is not a big Community, a lot are bigger, this is just the owning trying to get attention to his/her site --The Itchy One 10:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I almost reverted your addition of the Enemy Down league, since the consensus here is to remove any links not discussed in advance on this page. At first glance, it looks like a valid league, so I will defer to others who know the coomunity better. --Habap 12:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

As instructed below, I'm requesting a link to Counter-Strike.com be added to external links. They do sell servers (my clan has one through them), they also have a huge resource of community content. We use their forums, we use their maps sections, their strategy guides, their plugin guides, and countless other things I don't really need to list. Feel free to check it out for yourself.

FPS Banana sells Alienware computers and Samsung Mobile PC's. CS-Nation sells griffinrun.com Anyway, any argument that Counter-Strike.com is at least equal in relevent content to the others? Abbynormal1

So, if nobody disagrees with me, I'll be adding the link Wedneday, September 13th. Abbynormal1

I deleted it without checking here first. So, you can add the link back in if you'd like. But, consider that if counter-strike.com is in there, you should really add all of the major rental sites as well. There's a treasure trove of guides and troubleshooting information at http://rentals.nuclearfallout.net, for instance, and that's just one of many. Counter-strike.com is nothing particularly special -- it just has a nice domain name. -jw

Does the XcG clan and BigBudDen clan really belong on the community links section? These are clan sites, of which there are thousands. My opinion is that clan sites are not relevent for the external/community links section. Not sure though, feedback appreciated.

--Abbynormal1 03:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Correct, clan sites don't belong or else we have to list 10,000 of them. --Habap 14:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed the links to "Big Bud Den Community" "Team UFH" which are clan sites. --Abbynormal1 19:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Article name
This may seem silly, but shouldn't the article name technically be Half-Life: Counter Strike? That is the official name, and the name on the box, despite whatever Steam refers to it as. DanPMK 10:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia convention is to label the article with its common name, not the formal title of it. Since most people think of Counter-Strike as a separate entity, we use that as the name of the article. --Habap 13:25, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Criticism
Shouldn't there be a section for critical reaction, criticism and other things of that nature (public opinion)?192.133.12.101 19:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Adding this: Cheating groups, such as, myg0t, JAPS and Rage-Xtreme have been known to create a disturbance in the game by spamming the microphone, radio commands, or even killing the whole team in one round. This is also known as raging.

Should Admin Abuse be mentioned?  [`.Thirty Thr33]  (Talk)  02:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

History of Counter-Strike
I think one of the main issues is the lack of reference whatsoever to the Quake mod called Navy Seals by the same developer. It is important that we discuss history in a more informative manner so we need to give credit where credit is due.

You can see for yourself in this article:

http://archive.gamespy.com/modweek/index21.shtm

I would have added this as a reference myself but after looking at the edit page it seems that I need additional help from an administrator before it can be included.

I've also changed the weapons of Counter-Strike paragraph as listing real-life weapons being an original and unique feature of CS is highly unfounded, grossly misleading and untrue. Megapaw 15:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Camper Strike
Some people know this game as Camper Strike or AS (Awper Strike). I think these two should be added.
 * I've never heard of it called as such...
 * In all my time playing Counter-Strike, I have never heard it called Awper Strike. Camper Strike has been thrown around here and there as an insult to the game but it has never been used as an "official" name for it. --Diametes T. Jackson 00:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * neither me. You can call it as you want but the official name remain "Counter-Strike" ;) --Chico75 16:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Clearly someone has a one dimensional perspective on the genre of fps; yes folks that is right not all games are like quake and unreal tournament. We can call camping "strategic positioning" in this instance, i am sure. It is not a lot of "humph humph" from bunny hopping across the map and endless run and gunning. kkthx —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.122.44.171 (talk) 03:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I also have played since the first betas (yeah, woo for me) and "Camper Strike" was only ever a name given to it by players of other FPS. 'Camping' is a valid tactic in many situations

What deveoper?
In the 1st paragraph - "commonly abbreviated to CS, is a team-based, tactical first-person shooter video game which originated from a Quake mod of the same developer" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.137.203.137 (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

Merging
If there are no objections, I believe it would be best to move the "Counterstrike Surfing" to the "Maps" section. Mastrchf91 02:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Vent vs Teamspeak
I was wondering what people thought about the edit replacing teamspeak with vent, with the reasoning "Replaced TeamSpeak with Ventrilo, as that is the universally preferred client of all Counter-Strike players". I don't think that is an accurate discription of the state of opinion. I've changed the relevant wording to Teamspeak or Ventrillo but I was wondering what others thought on which should be included. -- Monty845 11:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I would leave both in unless we can find a reliable source that says only Ventrillo is used. I would suspect that there is a mix, just as there is in every other game - and that those who use one or the other can't understand why anyone would ever use the other. --Habap 14:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Links to Vtech shooting
The article from http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/18/230755.shtml?s=ic got their some of their info from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041800162.html Which reads "several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly a game called "Counterstrike," a hugely popular online game in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns."

As of now in the Washington Post article they've removed that information. A search on "counterstrike" on the Washington Post site http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/NewsSearch?sb=-1&st=counterstrike& leads to three articles related to VTech shooting. One mentioning Ismail Ax could be a screen name for CS which turns out to be negative. The other two, which shows the connection to CS in the search results, leads to the same WP article I posted, however now nothing about CS is mention.

A search result on "Counter Strike" leads to this article http://blog.washingtonpost.com/posttech/2007/04/counterstrike_va_tech.html Which mentions the said article also mention a developer from Valve graduated from VTech in 2003. But they do say in a update that people who knew him(Cho) in High School said he played CS.

Still if Cho did play CS it doesn't seem right for Triva. Bebopblue 18:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Why is this not appropriate for trivia? It's a true, interesting tidbit of information about a recent monumental event.  It seems entirely appropriate.  KDR 20:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Say Cho drove Volkswagen, should there also be a mention in the Volkswagen article? Or what if Cho liked to drink Heineken.. Well, you get the point I guess.. -- Laurens Hoek 22:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It sounds like POV garbage to me.--WaltCip 22:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * But his playing Counter-Strike is being directly related to his violent rampage, making the fact relevant. KDR 01:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hereby I'm linking drinking Coca-Cola to his rampage, all that sugar can't be good. Or what if he watched Die Hard? Come on, all these accusations are entirely unbased and have no place here. -- Laurens Hoek 14:50, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I have seen no articles stating he drinks Coke, no article stating he drives a Volkswagen. I have seen articles that he played Counter-Strike.  Your argument is flawed and you know it.  Look, I play Counter-Strike too.  I'm not going to go on a rampage.  But this scumbag did and his playing Counter-Strike has been brought up in the media.  I am not at all claiming his playing Counter-Strike caused him to become homicidal.  Did my trivia entry say that?  No it did not.  I still feel it is an interesting piece of trivia about a monumental event. KDR 18:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is about Counter-Strike, not Cho. Bebopblue 02:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Counter-Strike maps moved to gaming wiki
Since the maps were up for deletion and they seemed to be an important part of the gameplay I moved it to The Encyclopedia Gamia before it got deleted. You can see it here --Cs california 22:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It's rather contradictory that Wikipedia allows a seperate article for each episode of a TV series, but not a separate article for each map of a popular game. 130.126.246.122 16:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't mention the TV series, see Pokémon test. They might be an error also, but simply two wrongs don't make a right. --Jestix 17:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I know I rather have them separate too. I use to make pages for the Command & Conquer section until the wikipedia admins deleted them then I joined the encyclopedia gamia where I can create article on specific game elements.  If you guys can please help improve the counter strike sections. It really needs some work --Cs california 05:25, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes we are quite happy if you do them at the "encyclopedia gamia", wikipedia is not the "one wiki to rule them all". There is stuff that is better handeled by a specific themed wiki, and thats the very reason this themed wikies exist. --Jestix 09:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You can link the pages back here on the article or talk page. Thats what users did with articles like meteos.  I also hate how that dam orphanbot tags all non-copyright images here if you just forget to tag the image and don't log on for a while it gets deleted. --Cs california 18:00, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Major Re-Do
I have reformatted this article. I split the insanely long intro into a few sections under ==Gameplay==, improved the "maps" and "mods" sections, and a few other things. If I made a mistake, please discuss it with me here (or at my talk page). Hope everyone likes it. Thanks! Gold fritter  11:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The page has been tagged for cleanup since July last year. It's still massively long winded, I'll see what I can do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thepineapplehead (talk • contribs) 20:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Weapon List
I think some one should add a weapons list with their "real" names and in game names —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rynosaur (talk • contribs).


 * The primary concern is whether such a list should be included in an encyclopedia. Generally, excessive lists of non-notable information are frowned upon. (also: List guideline) +  A.0u  04:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There's no need, it's of no use to anybody :P Thepineapplehead 20:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Article Destruction
This article has been completely destroyed for whatever reasons. People vandalising the article, people who don't know what they are doing attempting to fix the article, people who didn't seem to understand that this had become canonical location for Counter-Strike information pulled in from all four corners of the internet, for which the source websites quite often no longer exist, or exist in a completely different format.

Anyhow, good work to all of you, way to screw things right up.


 * Quite right; I edited this article a fair amount a couple of years ago, and the drop in quality I spotted when I returned to it recently was quite disappointing. OK, admittedly some of the content back then was pretty bloated, but there were definitely some aspects of those old versions that were better. It'll be a lot of work going through everything and restoring the good bits... -- Nick RTalk 14:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Such as what? I merely re-wrote parts of it as it read like a gigantic essay. Thepineapplehead 20:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It was pretty awful about a year ago when I first read it. Compared to then, it's a lot better now Steevm 02:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Errors in "Weapons"
There are errors in the parts where it mentions that the names of weapons in the menus used to be actual names before version 1.6.

Pre-1.6 it was only like this if you used the mod version (the free Half-Life modification you download), but not if you used the retail version (the one you buy in stores). I'm not sure where to find good sources for this, so I'm leaving it as it is for now.

I'm not sure if it should be mentioned, but there also exists a patch which changes the made-up names to the real ones.

Whether it is chosen to ignore the pre-1.6 retail version or not, I removed the reference to GIAT FAMAS - Clarion 5.56, and replaced it with AK-47 - CV-47, as the Famas was not in CS before version 1.6.

Lars Holm 12:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Good stuff :D There are also numerous updates for Source which fix the buymenu names, they're just a simple cstrike_english.txt file update.


 * Good call on changing the FAMAS to the AK though ;) Thepineapplehead 18:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

In-Game ads?
Some history about in-game advertising. NavyCS.com as a website and game server was created late 2003 to test the success of in-game advertising for the United States Navy. The game Counter-Strike was used because of the amount of gamers and the ease of placing advertisements within the maps played. Navy Recruiting Command communicated with Valve Software for ideas and to seek permission for the prototype (no permission was required). Our testing was considered a success and the results were communicated to various organizations such as Harvard Univ and Mediafamily.org. In June of 2004 Viacom announced in-game advertising had a great future. Was the NavyCS.com concept and testing the genesis, I don't know. Ultimately Navy Recruiting Command decided against the concept for various reasons including the violent game play and game endorsement issues (The cost burden was on the player to purchase the game). The Navy did end up creating an on-line game which can be downloaded at Navy.com (we should have stuck with CS :)). NavyCS 11:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

How come there's nothing about those annoying ads in this article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.248.223.109 (talk) 22:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC).


 * That's a good point, the in-game ads are quite a recent thing. I've not played 1.6 in months but I'll see if I can dig up sme info and screens, and add it in if it isn't already. Thepineapplehead 20:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Please be cautious of adding your own opinion regarding to these ads. Adding in mentions of these ads are acceptable, but adding in your opinion, specifically "annoying", is in violation of NPOV. If we allow such opinion, then another person has the same right to claim it can easily be ignored. You can mention that these ads are vexing if you can find a reliable source. --BirdKr 10:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm getting the hang of unbiased writing now. Don't worry, if I'm to add in a section about advertisements I'm not going to write "omg valve r so gay these adverts sux omg!!1!one" Thepineapplehead 11:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

CS - CSS Sprays
One of the unique things about CS is the ability to create and "spray" a message in-game. I suggest discussing Wally, spray sizes and use. NavyCS 12:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Legacy
I made an addition to the legacy section of this topic by expressing the different types of counter strike communities that are clearly already listed in the ariticle. I received a new mail message stating that a citation was required for my addition. It also stated that self promotion was against the rules. This I completely understand and agree with totally, however my intent was to broaden the topic regarding those groups who are the biggest part of counter strike. Namely the customers and how they created their own way of interaction amongst themselves, just as they created the original game. These groups are the reason why this game has continued to be the number 1 all time FPS multi-player game in history.

I provided a weblink to one of the larger of such groups websites as others have obviously provided the links to CPL, CAL, and many other entities that are discussed in the articles content. I stated that the link provided was only one such group as a reference point for further understanding and explaination towards the origins of this game title and its past and future course.

Remember it was the community of gamers who made the original MOD counter strike and I thought it was important to touch a little more on this type of independant community of gamers and balance the discussion as the companies who are listed with their weblinks are so predominant that this point seems drowned out.

My question is then how could such a community already referenced in the original article be self promotion and the companies who profit from the game not be but allowed such a weblink?

And just an FYI the community I listed via link is in no way hurting for page views.

We received 365933 page views since November 18, 2006

Could someone please educate me regarding how I might get this issue resolved?

Thanks in advance,

VarGT 18:21, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Addition: Steev seems to have been the person who took offense in some way to my addition to the topic so I have asked him to respond here. VarGT 19:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I reacted too harshly; but your user nick (GT) seems to indicate at least some sort of connection to the link you posted, which is something generally to be avoided. Maybe I should just have removed the link? Maybe I'm just being paranoid? There are so many people continuously posting links to sites with which they are affiliated... Especially as you seem to have created the account in order to add this information to the CS page. One problem with people adding links to their own sites is that if one such site is listed, others feel they should be listed too; then the article becomes a big mess of lists of links - exactly what the article is not supposed to become.
 * That said, the info on public servers is probably merited and I should have probably been a little less zealous in wiping everything. I'm sorry about that. However, I don't believe the link to any particular site is really necessary, and I remain unconvinced that you posted the link as a completely independent entity. The rule of thumb is that if you are INDEED important enough to merit mention on wiki, someone unaffiliated to you will add the information.
 * In other words I'm particularly concerned about the link not being posted by an independent contributor; less so about the actual body text about public servers. Steevm 21:27, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This logic, although in no way completely improper, does have some fatal flaws. The first of which I see is as I've already expressed above. I am, as are many others, just as interested in the independents as the larger established makers of the current businesses. If we all followed such assumptions as was made in this case, I think we do both this resource and the purposes behind it a huge disservice. For example if my name was VarCS would you have blocked or withheld every link where CS is already available? I think not. The fact is I understand the idea and reason behind your actions however; caution is usually the best policy behind such unilateral decisions as were made in this case. So again I ask as I have already done in my first post here, how can we all come to a solution for those independents that are clearly a huge part of the community? If the link to a specific group bothers you or others because you feel it is self promotion how can we all justify the links to the manufacturers, CAL, CPL, etc? At this time I would request from Steve, that as you have blocked the content that I have included because of the link provided as you have expressed, you be the one to rectify those actions. Steve go ahead and remove the link to the provided website until such a community decision like a censoring for the entire Wiki users body and researchers who visit it for a better understanding of any topic can be reached by the majority not a single user. The remaining information provided however is and would be helpful to anyone who would like a better understanding on the topic and useful as a further research tool for understanding how this almost decade old game still remains number one in all multi-player gaming statistics. This was the reason for my original post and the only reason for my addition to the topic as I attempted to provide the largest reason why it remains so still to this day. As you have said already in your reply here the link is what most concerns you so remove that link until consensus can be achieved on this topic of the independents having less rights to post a link to such historical locations then the manufacturers who clearly have no boundaries here, and do so with impunity.

Thank you all in advance,

VarGT-CS-Gamer-Concerned user. VarGT 01:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The kind of 'content' you added seems to be nothing more than an attempt to gain publicity for your website. The website in question adds no value at all to the article, nor does a reference. There are a million sites like the one mentioned, built on a generic CMS, with no actual content, hardly any members, hardly any visitors. Should all those million sites be linked from here? I don't think so, so why should yours be? -- Laurens Hoek 16:15, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Did you read the above discussion at all? Again the website that is in question has approx 390,000 views with out any help from Wikipedia! It’s had approx 50,000 more views in the 2 weeks since the original post... I do not think your description of that particular site holds any water, they have over 100 members and close to a half million views in less then a year. However as I said above take the link out if you feel its self promotion which in my opinion it is not. The argument you make is exactly the point I have already made here. It is those millions of websites you mention that keep CS the number 1 played ever on-line game of all time. It’s they who you seem to have no respect for, those very same millions who keep all those other manufactures and their links and the CPL's, CAL's, etc... Alive and well making money. My problem here is the hypocrisy of the notion that its ok for the other links to groups like mygOt that have only harmed the game and the community that appear to be acceptable to Wikipedia users and those groups like the one I added that are not welcome. Why? Why not have a page listed to such independent entities this way the proverbial playing field is leveled between the independents and the manufactures? Leveled between the hackers and the hack not’s? Still waiting for an answer to that question and the others I have listed above.

Thank you, VarGT 18:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The reference to groups such as myg0t may be indeed questionable. However, you will have to agree that tournaments, such as the CPL and the WCG have made contributions to the legacy of this game that stand out far beyond all those community websites. Throwing around statistics will not help you, you have to take into consideration that there is no actual information on the website you mentioned that is of any use to the article, which is one of the criteria. The fact that community websites help a community is sort of a given, there are also a million websites about checkers, should they all be listed in the checkers article? I don't think so. These articles would become a mess and there are other places to do that, such as portal websites. Furthermore, there is the the question of accuracy of the statistics you throw around. If you want to show off, use a reliable measuring system, such as Google Analytics, rather than self-produced statistics. This article is already a mess and there is no use in messing it up more. -- Laurens Hoek 08:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree totally with your statement that because of tournaments they hold any more relevance then the groups who actually created the need for such competitive designs. Originally I simply wanted to express that PUBS were and are the starting ground for all of those places. Now I am going ahead with my supporting of the citation request so here I go. First citation will be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_%28computer_gaming%29, Game Informer 01.2007 New Angel Munoz Interview with game informer magazine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberathlete_Amateur_League , the purpose and intent letter of group in question on the website  previously listed and the evolving nature of such communities, http://www.gamerstrust.org , and the following links to others who are listed in Wiki with seemingly no problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SK_Gaming , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_3D , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnatic , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myg0t , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Pwnage. Regarding your doubts about the page views as being accurate and being seen as "Showing off" I will try and contact the Webmaster of the website and see if they can have Google verify the webpage views as currently displayed on the website. However, it was not my intent to "Show off" it was my intent to put to rest the claim/accusation that self promotion was the goal. Clearly that is not the case in this instance and in proper perspective for this discussion. Its as simple as the nose on your face that without these groups, clans, societies no such thing as CAL, CPL, WCG, would even exist as clearly stated in the sources above listed. About the article becoming a mess I say with the amount of links already present that is purely not the case. The article is informative and a great tool for understanding the term "Counter Strike" and it should remain so, not criticized for having to much information on the origins and continuation of the topic.

Still awaiting answers to my original questions.

Thank you,

VarGT 17:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I doubt the notability of several of the wiki articles you linked to above (one of which is tagged as not necessarily satisfying the notability criteria). Many are just lists. Still, that's not really the issue here.
 * I don't think either of us are disagreeing about adding relevant content. It would probably add to the article if you can provide referenced information pertaining to the "scene" and its influence on e-sports etc. (and link to the corresponding wiki articles on gaming clans and e-sports). Just try to keep it NPOV and avoid any conflict of interests. As long as you can understand that these are important values (and that that is why I removed the content in the first place), I don't see a problem if you provide good (independent) info.
 * And yes, the article is a mess. Take a look at the French version to see how it should be done :) Steevm 18:23, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Your questions were answered. -- Laurens Hoek 11:31, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well perhaps there is light at the end of this tunnel. Steevm thank you for seeing my point before the interruptions began. I would like to at least provide what I was able to obtain from the Webmaster for the group in question, for the doubting individual above who seemed bent on questioning the accuracy of the web views. And I would like to thank that groups Webmaster as well for the speed at which the information was provided and the explanation of some of the criteria for authentication of such data. I have received 2 screen shots of the data in question and both were taken by that Webmaster from the websites host "hostdime" any other independent inquiries are welcomed by the Webmaster to the hosting company directly if the stats are in any way still in question. http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/sperrin7/gamerstrustmonthycountries.jpg, http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/sperrin7/gamerstrustmonthyhits.jpg

I will do as you have suggested Steevm, now before I do anything will it be you who removes the website link or myself? Do I rewrite the addition and replace it in the article or do you? I would appreciate any help regarding these specific questions because I in no way wish to have a repeat performance of "citation required." Steevm if you prefer to answer such questions privately via Private Message I will be awaiting your correspondence.

Thank you all for a discussion that was engaging and lively,

P.S. I cannot read French to see how it should be done on that page but thank you for the tip I will go and see if I can find a free translator. ;)

VarGT 00:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Laurens shouldn't your last comment be below mine above and before this one? And it doesn't surprise me that you as the author of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fnatic see only through your CAL/CPL lens. And you of course are right my questions were answered but not by you. I believe this discussion came to an end some 11 hours before your last comment.

Thanks,

VarGT 00:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

How many players in a game?
There is an interesting fact missing IMHO, how many players are in each group in a typical setting?

Well some servers have 10 based on a CAL type match, others have 16, 20, and even up to 32. I have seen some servers that have 60 at a time for CS but I have never logged in to see how they perform.

Good point though.

VarGT 00:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

32 is the max if you see more than 32 slots available its a hltv spectator server. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.155.107.244 (talk) 18:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Counter-Strike Manager
Would it be an idea to include some info about the Counter-Strike Manager game in the culture section? and maybe add a link to it? (http://www.cs-manager.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.5.171.41 (talk) 09:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Box art
Why was the box art removed? It described the whole game...I'll put it back in. 75.172.9.54 (talk) 08:34, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Steam Version
The last time I played Counter-Strike, both the Steam version and pre-Steam version coexisted. Is it still possible to play the pre-Steam version of CS? If it is, where can I download it? (No, I am not referring to the cracked version.)--Voidvector 13:04, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You can only play it on Steam, afaik, playing it in a non-Steam environment is tantamount to software piracy (since the only way to obtain said software is through illicit means). Additionally, this page is for the discussion about the topic's article's, not for discussion about the article topic. // 3R1C 18:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Did you know that before Steam was created Counter-Strike was a freeware add-on to the original Half-Life? And I am pretty sure it did not have a clause in the EULA preventing redistribution. So, it is not piracy. Anyway, I will ask elsewhere. --Voidvector 20:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The fact you say it was freeware (note: past tense) negates that. Valve purchased the intellectual property to Counterstrike.  I'm willing to bet that it applies to previous versions as well. // 3R1C 11:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I found it. Fileplanet still have it. http://www.fileplanet.com/32405/0/section/Patches --Voidvector 20:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't make it any more or less legal becaues its on FilePlanet. // 3R1C 11:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * To 3R1C, purchasing the IT will not make what you already own illegal. If I buy a record and later a company buys the IT rights to a song on it, they don't own my record now.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.36.155 (talk) 04:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Counter Strike Beta (Pre-Alpha)
I beta tested counterstrike I believe it was late 1997 or early 1998. I specifically remember when you wanted to buy a weapon in the game you had to hit Tilde (~) to bring the developers console down, then you had to type code to buy the weapons. Buying ammo was more ridiculous, you had to buy the specific ammo for the specific gun, if you bought the wrong ammo you were SOL for that round. This archaic system was streamlined into the modern interface used today in CS and CS: Source. There were only two levels (Militia and I cant remember it's name but you start on a bridge and have to rescue hostages in a parking garage), and the only game mode was Hostage Rescue better known as CS mode. In CS_Militia you stormed a house / mansion for a hostage rescue. That's all I can remember, If you know more please add. -Devonthedude —Preceding unsigned comment added by DevonTheDude (talk • contribs) 05:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * that map was cs_assault - a less popular map on cs:source now due to it really needing a team effort to gain entry into the garage (player skills being fairly equal that is). I dont remember the console purchasing. But i do remember that you take damage from flashbangs. There was no "kills" column on the scoreboard (it being a team game with team scores, why would you need it?) but players were still sorted by how kill/death/mission act (points for defuse etc...) ratio. I also remember the es_ maps which were my favourites, for those who don't know the majority of the T's had to "escape". Then, more recently, T's were prevented from moving hostages - a step backwards for realism i think. Of course I realise this is simply history and not much use in the main article, unless there is a section specifically on the general history of the game, and how expectations of players coming from non-round based fps games (i.e. quakeworld players) caused the game to be changed . I know i would find it interesting but i don't know if anyone else would, and I would agree with the inevitable comment after this that says such speculation would be our PoV and not for wikipedia :)

So many n00bs, so little time.
So much 0wn@ge, so little time == :)

I have decided against buying any version of Counter-Strike for one reason: the amazing amount of 6 year old noobs plaguing the game. With 1337 speak and hacks abundant, this is putting the game on the edge of no hardcore community at all outside of tournaments. Better buy? Gary's Mod 10. Awesome —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.54.65.226 (talk) 19:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC).
 * And this is relevant how?

Wikipedia is not an advertisement for Gary's Mod 10.141.155.145.242 01:32, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Counter-Strike = n00bfest is a valid point mind, but garrys mod has its fair share of mingebags —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovefist233 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * ~)I fail to see how the masses of "n00bs" on any form of counter strike is a disadvantage. Sure, the general game play of counterstrike lends it self towards teamwork, but they're just as many "6 year olds" on the other team.~ Meaning when you hop on a counter strike source or 1.6 server and there are 32 people playing, it's extremely easy to achieve a very acceptable KDR (kill for death ratio). Although the fact that there are many noobs and 6 year olds on CS is true.~ This does not deter from the gameplay and overall physics expressed through this beautiful game that i am proud to call my hobby. :~)

Official Link
Would be nice to see a link to the official webpage for CS!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.185.193.116 (talk) 04:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.136.122 (talk) 19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC).


 * I don't know if you've checked recently, but pretty much since Valve brought out Steam, there has no longer been an official "cs" website, it merely redirects to the steam store.


 * http://www.counter-strike.com/ still exists but I don't think it's official. Thepineapplehead 20:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Suspected vandalism
QUICKFEET.D CAL - TEAM 3D - THE BEST

^-- under the Condition Zero section which is under version history. Is this suppose to be there? 68.249.179.4 (talk) 01:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it was vandalism, and it has been removed. --Silver Edge (talk) 02:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Can someone get rid of: COUNTER STRIKE NEW VERSION 2007-2008 is Out (it's a section without any text. I would do it, but the thing is semi-protected)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.138.245.178 (talk) 18:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

CS free alternatives
perhaps alternatives as Americas Army and ET: True_Combat:_Elite should be noted in the article. I believe (and many others too) that CS is lately nothing more than a legacy (outdated) game and readers of the article should be referred to some better (and free) alternatives.

KVDP (talk) 08:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not for personal soapboxing. If you would like to find reliable secondary sources to suggest that it is a legacy, feel free to, but your opinion alone will not suffice. --Izno (talk) 18:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Culture Section
I was wondering if I could update the culture section, I think that it is outdated and possibly mention www.gotfrag.com, I couldn't see it anywhere. Anyone have any feedback on that? Funni3fx3 (talk) 09:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Scrimmage Section
I was also wondering if I could also add a scrimmage section. This would be about basic scrimming information, how its done and just the details about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funni3fx3 (talk • contribs) 09:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Cyberathlete Professional League
It should be noted that Cyberathlete Professional League is now defunct. techietim (talk) 10:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Editing this Article
how come we cant edit this article?Funni3fx3 (talk) 06:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Jack Thompson
I noticed at the bottom this quote "In real life, Kazmierczak - who had become "erratic" recently after shunning medication for an undisclosed illness - purchased weapons like those used in Counter-Strike, including a Glock handgun and a pump-action Remington shotgun, which he bought legally on Feb. 9." Someone should mention the pump action shotgun in CS is a Benelli M3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.144.113 (talk) 16:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought the Automatic shotgun was a Benelli O.o. Also, considering the game itself uses guns from 'Real Life', purchasing the same guns from your local vendor would obviously be 'like those in Counter-Strike'. :P

I think Thompson was clutching at straws with this one. Triadbeast (talk) 11:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that anyone who blames games for stuff is clutching at straws. After all, children learn the difference between the real world and not-so-real-world at the age of 4.
 * Even if someone did "practice" with a game, I believe that he'd go murder someone with or without the "practice" - The mind has to be messed up to begin with, and I kind of doubt the games are to blame.
 * Anyways, I don't know about the shotgun, but Glock is a popular pistol anyways. The US military uses M4's - does that mean that they use them because they've seen those in games? Yeah, right - I know it's different (US military was here - with M4's - before games), but I'm just trying to prove a point here.
 * --Darkuranium (talk) 23:00, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * --Darkuranium (talk) 23:00, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

100 frames per second and CounterStrike
I see CS players wanting to have a constant framerate of 100 claiming that it's most playable when that's the case. Why is this? I've never heard of other games that need this. And is that something that should be in the article? 85.19.140.9 23:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It has to do with the way the engine works, the same concept of being able to move faster and jump further with 125 FPS in quake. In CS, amongst other things, the amount of weapon recoil is linked to the framerate. -- Laurens Hoek 23:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The human eye apparently only notices a "flicker" of the light if it is less than 60hz, according to information on the Flicker fusion threshold. When you get faster than 60hz, most humans can't tell the difference. They claim they need it, but they might not even notice the difference. Since it cannot be verified that they need it or that they think they need it, we can't put that in the article. --Habap 05:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well I played counter strike for the longest (about 3 years) on 20 fps max when I upgraded I got 60 (video card was locked) when I unlocked it I got 99-100 fps (so about 100fps always) I noticed that the more fps I had the faster I can to react to people and bomb ¬»vÌ®ū§«­­­­¬ 0.o 13:08, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Most people won't notice any difference between 60 fps and 100 fps. The amount of movement that can occur in the 0.006 second difference between when the movement would display at 100 fps and at 60 fps shouldn't be very significant. Now, if the 60 fps is not consistent (that is, when you get into a complex fight, if the fps slows down) then a peak of 100 fps would be useful. I know that in Planetside, the complexity of fights can make a gigantic difference - slowing me from 30 fps to 8 or 9 fps. I haven't played CS in long enough that I don't remember if your fps varies during a round. --Habap 15:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, I remember switching from on-board graphics and dial-up in Day of Defeat to a 64MB card and cable modem. All those guys who had claimed they beat me based on skill were quite humbled by the difference when my machine and connection were as good or better than theirs and I broke even (or ruled in rare situations). So, it can make a big difference, but people arguing about 80 or 90 fps versus 100 fps are just having a pissing match. --Habap 15:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well I have been playing counter strike for so long so I do notice a difference in 60 to 100 fps (fps in my option is reaction time if you have more you have more time to react to people shooting at you the fps varies on smoke nades I remember id drop to 15 fps when I only had max 20 fps (and that was just one smoke nade you bring 5 smoke nades out I am down to like 2fps I have yet to play day of defeat on my new system I might do that next time I go home (I did get almost 300fps on half life 2 in some parts) ¬»vÌ®ū§«­­­­¬ 0.o 15:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I play alot and i can see how that could make a difference, but unless you have a ping of 5 or something your ultimately gong to be held back by lag anyway. 142.167.232.67 17:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

The popularity of 100FPS isn't in reference to client-side FPS, it's in reference to server side FPS, otherwise known as "tick rate". 100 tick rate is preferable to 33 or 66 tick rates because it allows for more data to be passed between client and server, improving bullet registration and more. --76.186.122.53 18:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Regardless of everyones opinions on the matter, until there is hard science dictating that there is an increase, this is all just original research. // 3R1C 18:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any big difference between 50 fps and 100 fps, I still own the same, but there are certain max_fps values that increase your shooting rate, not to mention that you run faster on lower fps. Here's a site with proof about the shooting: http://www.fortress-forever.com/fpsreport/ Clerlic (talk) 14:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Modifications
I would also like to point out another very popular modification known as Soccerjam Mod. it has maps specifically created for the purpose of the mod such as the map "Soccerjam." it has been used in a variety of sports such as: Football/Soccer, American Football, Volleyball and Basketball. Though the Soccer obviously being more dominant than the others. Thankyou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by N3vre (talk • contribs) 18:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

eu so queria saber como jogar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.73.236.221 (talk) 16:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Citation Needed (TAG) Abuse
It seems like there is a citation needed tag after almost every sentence in this article. It looks like vandalism to me. As such, I feel that we should remove all the tags that are currently present, espescially considering that much of the citation needed information is easily verifiable. Shadow 16:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Added to Request for Protection list Shadow 16:43, 26 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Note at the bottom of the Counter-Strike article, someone has placed a personal review of Counter-Strike Source, which most definitely is vandalism, and it should be dealt with. --Ccolling 02:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree completly

Yeah CS sucks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.17.91 (talk) 07:23, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Jack Thompson revisited
I redid the controversy section about Jack Thompson and the shootings, using MSNBC as a ref instead of gaming sites. I think the section is more balanced now. I think we should avoid using quotes, as the choice of the quotations is very subjective. Remember to use NPOV, even if you hate him. Angryapathy (talk) 16:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Version history template
The template (used only in this article) seems to be excessive and possibly a candidate for deletion, as per point #9 in WP:GAMETRIVIA. Thoughts? DP 76764 18:18, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, would it be more appropriate to try to identify the version which constituted the breakthrough of this mod? I seem to recall that CS was already wildly popular before it even reached version 1.0, when it became a commercial product. On second thought, that might be rather hard to validate.. Broadbandmink (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Link to Steam
The link to Steam is broken, it should link through to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(content_delivery) rather than vapourised water Slugonamission (talk) 10:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Done Thanks! Celestra (talk) 14:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Misinterpretation of Chinese article
[quote wiki page]"The Chinese government has used Counter-Strike as a tool for tactical training" [end quote]

This implies that a central edict from Beijing requires ALL Chinese police officers to train on CS, and has been taken out of context on Wiki.

The actual article reports on a one off game competition for police officers in ONE city, and the article is intended to be taken as tongue in cheek, a kind of equivalent of the 'and finally' sections at the end of TV News programmes, you are not meant to take from it that ALL Chinese police train on CS.......

[quote from source article] "More than 300 police officers in China's northern port city Tianjin were "mobilized" to an Internet cafe Wednesday for a three-day competition of the terrorism-themed computer game Counter-Strike.

"The competition is organized to sharpen anti-terrorist skills of Tianjin's police force, as we find the nature of the game very similar to that of our daily practice," said officer Zhang Bin, one of the organizers" [end quote] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.61.0.43 (talk) 12:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Semiprotection review

 * 18:06, 3 April 2008 OhanaUnited protected Counter-Strike ‎ (heavy and persistent vandalism from multiple IP addresses [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed])

That was nearly 18 months ago. I'd like to review this to see if semiprotection is still considered necessary. As well as welcoming views from regular editors I've contacted OhanaUnited, the protecting admin. --TS 17:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would say no to unprotect. This has always been kids game and it's highly unlikely to suddenly stop vandalizing OhanaUnitedTalk page 19:17, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

M4A1 "scope removed" nonsense
The article says "the Colt M4A1 Carbine had its scope removed"... if that refers (as it seems to me) to the real life M4A1, then that is absolute bull**** as the M4A1 doesn't have a scope by default. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.152.114.211 (talk) 13:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It refers to earlier versions of the game in which the M4A1 had a scope (I believe that the AK47 had a increased fire rate as secondary fire at one time as well). UncannyGarlic (talk) 06:13, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Most Played Online Game?
In The First Section it states that counter strike is the most played online game which is not true it is teh biggest played online computer game yes but halo 2 is most played out of all some one needs to change it to computer game


 * Do you have a source saying Halo 2 is the most played? --Snkcube 23:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * http://archive.gamespy.com/stats/, Halo 2 may be the most played Xbox Live game, but it is not the most played game online. --

--Ccolling 02:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought the most played was that sucky MMORPG World of Warcraft? 85.12.80.128 12:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * CS is the most played online FPS, WoW is the most played online game. I'm not sure if this includes all versions for CS, or only one of them.LoopyDood 15:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It's still original research until you start showing some citations :P // 3R1C 18:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the dude above. I'm pretty sure all forms of CS combined would equal the most played online first person shooter game ever. There are several sources stating this as indicated in the original article as well. Halo 2 may be popular but we need to take into account that counterstrike is also played on other platforms, such as Xbox. Whereas Halo or Halo 2 is rarely played on PC; I am lead to believe. Meaning, i think you'll find counter strike is the most online FPS game to have been played. PS: World of Warcraft is the most online played overall by a long shot. :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandhippo (talk • contribs) 21:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

i dont know a single person who owns that shitty xbox port of css —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.102.176.183 (talk) 01:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Newb/Noob
Is it applicable to the counter-strike wiki to have Newb/Noob, as this it was deleted and in playing this game for 10min online you will hear BOTH these words used during play, but may not know the meaning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.45.119.4 (talk) 00:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Those terms are not specific to Counter-Strike, which is why they have their own article instead of being included in this one. Having sections in the article for every popular slang term used in Counter-Strike simply wouldn't work, and selecting "more relevant" terms to include would rely on our PoV, which is unacceptable on Wikipedia. Hargle 01:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Both words derive from the slang' "Newbie" which is almost an abbreviation of the words New-Beginner —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chabit (talk • contribs) 00:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * old topic, but I'm here to say you're wrong. Yes "noob/n00b" is derived from "newbie."  However, "noob" has a different meaning.  It is generally used to call out someone who isn't NEW, but they still lack any true skill.  "Newb" is a shorter form of "newbie" and it does point out that someone is actually new to a game. Halofanatic333 (talk) 15:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Popularity.
Hello. Recently I had thinking about cs 1.6 popularity - growth and regress. I've searched about it and with no profits. Could someone share his known sources about cs 1.6 popularity(server count, active players count, valve revenue on game selling and marketing or anything else similar) among first-person shooter games in a year to year basis? Thanks.95.68.34.26 (talk) 20:56, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Brazil ban update?
The information on the ban in Brazil and its possibly pending un-banning dates to mid-2009. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 15:53, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Description of Weapons
I deleted that section since Wikipedia is not a game guide. This content has already been deleted as an article by itself just a week ago. Now it pops up again here. *sigh* --Jestix 16:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The weapons do, however, have their own pages on Wikipedia, and which weapons are used by which side in the game make sense to a certain extent. At least a list with links to the weapons' own articles should be included for those interested in gun culture/ballistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.162.103 (talk) 06:41, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Atomforyou, 12 June 2010
editsemiprotected

Grammatical error in the first few paragraphs, there's a random fragment saying "Therefore Half-Life Counter Strike."

Atomforyou (talk) 17:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ C T J F 8 3  pride 18:41, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Counter-Strike is currently the most popular game
"The game is currently the most played Half-Life modification in terms of players, according to GameSpy." The reference for this sentence is 2 years old! Tchernobog (talk) 20:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
 * sofixit by changing the sentence. :) --Izno (talk) 21:10, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Engines
Hi, my brother who passed a few yrs ago invented a counterstrike mod and the first in its history. It is actually an effect I have not seen in any games (me being good at certan argorithms and programming simple stuff as well is still impressed). I remember he modded new realistic weapons in cs, and star wars where actual bullet and smoke effects appear from the guns eg a ping sound and other small details. There is no name for it, except it uses a very unique effect on the snow where you walk (polygonal steps are created in snow and/or sand-like environments, maybe a type of aftershock or gforce effect with a realword weapon). He actually invented this before the big companys so I am giving him the credit when its due. BTW the effect looks better than the current technology because when you walk through the snow, the steps are shown with deep depth and slow movement giving detail to a wet snow environment and/or 1-2 feet of snow in one so... He was a good computer programmer and well-known in the original cs community i believe. Maybe there should be a list of engines or mods for cs here as well. (murriemir) 04:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Real Developers
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the developers are Minh "Gooseman" Le and Jess "Cliffe" Cliffe? Bragador (talk) 04:25, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Valve did not have any hand in developing CS until they bought it and they didn't add much content if I remember correctly, merely fixed bugs, added a few maps, and did a graphic overhaul in 1.6.  They need to be added to the developers section, possibly with a note when they sold the IP to Valve.  UncannyGarlic (talk) 06:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with both of these assessments. Valve had little to nothing to do with the development of this game prior to its purchase, and all the groundwork was already done.  I also think this article does not emphasize enough that this was first and foremost a third party modification to a retail game, released freely to the public.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thorkos (talk • contribs) 20:06, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Reception
In the reception section, it gives the sales numbers. While this article does mention it, these are only retail numbers, and therefore do not include purchases over Steam. I think that fact could use a bit more emphasis, since it is a huge fraction of the sales, and highlight Steam's importance to Valve and CSS. 208.102.22.140 (talk) 05:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I would also add that since many thousands of users came into this modification without spending any additional money beyond the purchase of the original Half-Life, as Counter-Strike was originally released for free (and is still available as a free modification to Half-Life). To this end, it is impossible to track how popular this game truly is.  Furthermore, it remains near the top of the popularity list in Steam to this day, according to the stat tracker.


 * Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer | Current 73,488 | Peak 73,788
 * Counter-Strike: Source | Current 70,129 | Peak 70,129
 * Counter-Strike | Current 69,422 | Peak 69,992


 * Source: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/ (dated 11/25/2010, 1:00pm GMT -7) Thorkos (talk) 20:14, 25 November 2010 (UTC)Thorkos

Date of Release
I'm fairly sure this game didn't come out in 2013? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.4.254 (talk) 15:39, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It was vandalism. I've corrected it. --Habap (talk) 17:21, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

How many players were online just before CS was bought by Valve?
I believe it could be useful information. -- f s  23:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Why would that be useful? --Habap 05:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * because it'd show what was the number of players that made valve interested in cs. -- f s  17:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The number of players really didn't change that dramatically to begin with even when Valve purchase it anynway. Game News -EddyDew (talk) 22:26, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Who wrote this?
"There have been a multitude of games claimed by their developers, reviewers and fans to be "Counter-Strike killers," but none have seriously been able to dent its overall popularity"

This looks like crap. Someone re-write it I'm too lazy because I'm a programmer :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.145.3.22 (talk) 16:57, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

CS Global offensive
Removed this line from the CS global summary, "The game is meant to be played on game consoles (such as PS3, Xbox 360, etc.) rather than the PC and is aimed as a competition to other FPS games such as the Call of Duty and the Battlefield series."

None of the references even mention it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.246.40.139 (talk) 07:29, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Valve Task Force Re-vitalization
Attention, all contributors to the Valve Task Force and the articles it constitutes!

I am here to announce that I will be re-vitalizing the Valve Task Force, aimed at universally improving articles constituting Valve Corporation, their employees, associates and products. This specific task force has been dormant for quite some time and with two very notable releases coming out this year, I feel like this is the appropriate time to re-stimulate the general aim of this group. For those who are not already members of the Valve Task Force, feel free to add your name to our members list and contribute to whatever articles you feel your contributions may prove beneficial for. Valve, its products and notable employees have proven to be essential to the progression of the video game industry, so I'd like to make a call of arms for this cause. D arth B otto talk•cont 22:04, 08 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that you mean a call to arms, not a call of arms. (not to be rude, but if you are putting this on all of the valve related pages, you might want to fix that) -Resolutionsmasher (talk) 22:43, 14 December 2011 (UTC)-

Featured Article Status
This article failed to meet featured status, and the comments given as to why are pretty detailed and expressive. I don't see why we can't fix these issues, contact this person again and get it promoted. I've made a quick list of the items listed. If you fix one of the issues, don't delete it, put a ✅ check mark next to it so others may check the revisions and peer review. I'm sure that some of these issues have already been fixed, but i will look into that and mark the list appropriatley. Thanks, -Resolutionsmasher (talk) 21:46, 15 December 2011 (UTC)-


 * the development history just isn't complete


 * Where are barking dog studios


 * When were as_, de_, and es maps introduced


 * What about the experiment with drivable vehicles circa beta 7?


 * The removal of bunny hopping


 * I don't like the "commonly played unofficial maps" section either but it links to List of Counter-Strike maps, something which I personally think should be deleted as it's full of unsourced POV (size, complexity, favour?) and should be redunant due to Counter-Strike maps.


 * The legacy section should at least mention the slew of counter-strike clones which now exist


 * The counter-strike culture section should be expanded given the large article at Counter-Strike culture.


 * Looks like a good list of items, but WP:FAC is now much more stringent about its articles then in 2006. A good model for this article might be Team Fortress 2 to build from (even though it is only a GA). --Izno (talk) 22:27, 15 December 2011 (UTC)


 * You're right (sorry, still a little new here). We ought to continue that list just to improve the general quality of the article. But we need to ensure it meets the criteria listed here: WP:FA Criteria. I'm going to get started right away, anybody else wanna volunteer as well? -Resolutionsmasher (talk) 21:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)-

Hacks

 * "Aimbots help the player aim at enemies. Practically the same as auto-targeting, These work by either modifying a bullet's in-flight path, or automatically moving the player's crosshair onto an enemy."

This is also not what happening. You can not modify a "bullet's in-flight path". The trajectory and calculations of the shot are server side. Cheats featuring aimbots are client side. The way an aimbot works is via a client side hack that hooks into the game library and gets information about other players 3D coordinates (x,y,z vector). These 3D coordinates are then processed via an algorithm into 2D coordinates (x,y vector) corresponding with the 3D position of the enemy player on your 2D screen. Think of it as taking a photo of your friend standing in the distance, in reality he had a 3D vector, but when you put your finger over him on the photo you're pointing at a 2D vector within the photo.

The player's mouse is then automatically aimed a the x,y coordinates when the aimbot functionality is triggered. This functionality is then further improved by figuring out vectors corresponding to body and head shots, as well as compensation for crouching positions. You can also use this functionality to do things like automatically draw text or other indicators over the player's 2D position. This is useful for indicating the player's team and any other useful or fun data that can be gathered from the client library. I recommend something like:


 * "Aimbots help the player aim at enemies, by auto-targeting other players. These work by calculation an enemy player's 2D coordinates from 3D space and automatically moving the player's mouse over the enemy target."

Or more simply:


 * "Aimbots help the player aim at enemies, by auto-targeting other players. These work by automatically moving the player's mouse over the enemy target."

There were also other aimbot methods that were more crude. A common one was based on the 3D geometry of other player's 3D models. You could distinguish between different player's based on distances between vertex points within the 3D model of the player. This worked well for CS since there was a limited amount of player models to choose from. The other method was based on texturing team models to flat blue and red and aiming at the color, which was highly ineffective.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.198.134.14 (talk) 02:48, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


 * "Wallhacks, which allow the player to see through walls. These work by altering the display driver to display objects that are normally obscured, or altering game textures to transparent ones. The only objects seen on the hacker's screen are those close by. The server will not send you the characters of the whole map, so you can not see across the whole map."

This is not what is really going on. The engine uses a visleaf system where the only parts of the level that are drawn are those which the engine calculates are visible from the player's current area. It has absolutely nothing to do with what the server will or won't allow you to do. I suggest the section be replaced with this or similar:


 * "Wallhacks, which allow the player to see through walls. These work by displaying objects that are normally obscured or replacing opaque game textures with semitransparent ones, allowing the hacker to see enemies before they would normally be in view. As the engine only renders the immediate area around the player, this does not allow a player to see the entire map at once."

As well, you could make "renders the immediate area" a link to Potentially visible set for extra information. 152.91.9.219 (talk) 06:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Done Welcome and thanks for contributing. Celestra (talk) 13:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC) by Andrej Tetak —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.47.61.248 (talk) 18:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

game modes
Hey, does this game have a elimination mode, where u kill the other team to gain a point ala perfect dark zero? There are alot of modes including survival. If so, a game types section should be added. Id like to know. thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asfd666 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Cheating section
Does the article need the section about cheats and hacks? As far as I know, no other FPS game article on wikipedia has a whole section talking about cheats and exploits. The section seems very out of place, not to mention there is already a wiki page about cheats in online games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:9:8600:4D7:B5CE:E02D:3E86:6955 (talk) 01:35, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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External links modified
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Official maps
There are twenty-five official maps made by the game developers: as_oilrig, cs_747, cs_assault, cs_backalley, cs_estate, cs_havana, cs_italy, cs_militia, cs_office, cs_siege, de_airstrip, de_aztec, de_cbble, de_château, de_dust, de_dust2, de_inferno, de_nuke, de_piranesi, de_prodigy, de_storm, de_survivor, de_torn, de_train and de_vertigo. -- 190.193.242.161 (talk) 23:48, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Why Counter-Strike 1.6 is called "Classic Counter-Strike"?
Hi, I have been trying to insert Classic Counter-Strike to one of the alternate name to Counter-Strike 1.6 But my edit keeps getting reverted. I have been playing this game for almost 10 years. And I am a current active player of the latest game "Counter-Strike Global Offensive." The developers frequently refer to CS 1.6 as "Classic Counter-Strike" in discussions with the CS community and in-game references to 1.6 and the game modes it inspired. There are many current professional Counter-Strike 1.6 players who currently play the CS: GO, along with new ones. These old players are frequently reffered to as "Classic CS players", to distinguish the current professionals who have only started playing either from CS: Source or directly from CS: GO (Counter-Strike: Global Offensive). If this is the valve's position and electronic sports position; then why not allow an edit to insert "Classic Counter-Strike" as an alternative name to CS games which use the Source engine, rather than the GoldSrc engine? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dajo767 (talk • contribs) 10:31, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Claims on Wikipedia need reliable sources, as I have stated before, and you have sinve provided none. That you and fellow players of yours refer to the game in this way does not make it notable for the general readership and rather shows a conflict of interest. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 10:34, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. This claim of mine was spoken from the perspective of a player of this game and is not suitable for a general audience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dajo767 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

″== Why is Counter-Strike's history of one of an eSports game not mentioned. ==

In the entire body of the article (except) for the template section below, no mention of Counter-Strike 1.6's history of being a eSports game is talked about. Why is it so? I was trying to insert the edit, but I get reverted time and again by others who say I don't have "reliable" sources. I try to add the source I have http://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Counter-Strike_Majors, but edits get reverted again on the basis that liquipedia is user edited. Guys have you all being living under a rock? Counter-Strike was a eSports game from 2001 to early 2012. Check the template section of this article "Proffessional Counter-Strike Competition". How come the template exists to collaborate my proposition? And by the way, I see that more than 90 percent of the statements on the accepted version are unsourced and uncited and you remove one sentence I make because it has a source which is unreliable? Jesus! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dajo767 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Read WP:V and WP:RS. Then add it in with a reliable source. --The1337gamer (talk) 21:10, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
 * While the article truly is in a bad shape, it does not make for a good excuse to add more unverified information alongside unreliable sources after multiply being asked not to. As stated previously, multiply, please review the guidelines The1337gamer has linked you to here. Your edits are welcome if you manage to deliver them tied in with a reliable source underlining them. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 21:51, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Wrong publish date - and the correct one not accepted
Correct Publish date reverted back to wrong one - no sources/proof for the wrong information you added back Okay, sorry if I update this talk-section somehow wrong, but I'd just like to prove some of you were wrong, and my update for the publish date was correct. I corrected that the CS 1.0 was published on 8th November of 2000 - after that, someone reverted it back to "9th November of 2000" and saying "9th is correct", reason for the revert firstly was simply that I didn't provide sources for the correct date - and the 9th November is "correct" by sources: The sources pointed to publish date does not even mention anywhere the date or time when it was published! The source says: "By Trey Walker on November 9, 2000 at 3:09PM PST" Trey Walker made news about game being published on November 9. He does not mention anywhere the time or date for game actually being published. The November 9, 3:09 PM is date and the time for the news of Tray Walker - not for the game being published. Okay, next, lets check the game version 1.0, when it was actually published - not the date of news. 1st source for CS 1.0 being published on November 8, 2000: https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/Counter-Strike_patches 2nd source for CS 1.0 being published on November 8, 2000: https://joliesjunk.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/the-history-of-counter-strike/ 3rd source for CS 1.0 being published on November 8, 2000: https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Counter-Strike_patches So.. How about you check the information which is correct and not just assume you are right - when you clearly was at wrong, before reverting the corrected information back to wrong one and just saying "is correct" - without sources being showed how it is correct. If you ask why I did just not update the correct information and add sources into source section - The answer is simply: Because you just deny the rights from me doing it by putting this page in Semi-Protected mode. Best Regards - Mikko, fan of Counter-Strike series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikkoMuhis (talk • contribs) 17:35, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The sources you provided remain unreliable, even if you bring them to a different talk page. Please at least try to provide a reliable source. You can find a list of video game-specific reliable sources here, as well as a custom search engine here. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 17:47, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd go as far as to say that the sources you list are wrong. The official Counter-Strike website announced the release on November 9, with the changelog listing the same date. Some screenshots were released the day before. The source is already used in the article. Lordtobi  ( &#9993; ) 17:52, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Just a comment
This article is surprisingly shorter than I expected. Enjoyer of World💬 00:11, 23 October 2020 (UTC)