Talk:Counts and Dukes of Angoulême

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What is the relationship between Wulgrin III, Comte d'Angouleme and William V Taillifer?

My list has: Fulk, William IV, Wulgrin II, William V, Aymer from Father ->Son. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.77.55.137 (talk) 19:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Taillifer vs Taillefer
Why is the House of Taillefer here spelled "Taillifer"? Every other language Wikipedia spells it "Taillefer", why not here? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:49, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

corrections on House Taillefer

 * 1) Turpion (839–863)
 * 2) Emenon (863–866)

All sources I have seen (online and in Print), do not count these two as Taillefer's, or blood relations to the counts from Wulgrin (I) of Angoulême forward..... the cognomen Taillefer was not actually used until William (I) "Taillefer", but is used to describe the "house", or his blood ancestors back to Wulgrin(I) of Angoulême, as well as decendants up to Isabella of Angoulême, last Taillefer related ruler of Angoulême (wife to Hugh (X) Of Lusignan, aka, Hugh (I) of Angoulême) Collision-Shift (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Additional correction, sourcing and conclusions
As previously posted to an administrators "talk" page, before I signed up for an account:

I spent some time on this as it pertains to a history/tree I am working on anyhow.I have crossed the following references:
 * Histoire P@ssion

http://www.histoirepassion.eu/spip.php?article1072


 * Foundation for Medieval Genealogy

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ANGOULEME.htm#_Toc220298849


 * Jaime Allen's Family Tree (aka FabPedigree)

http://fabpedigree.com/s020/f280292.htm


 * Google Books - (The) descent, name and arms of Borlase of Borlase in the county of Cornwall

http://books.google.com/books?id=5axpAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA13&dq=Counts+of+angouleme&hl=en&ei=D5a7TLXBLoOosAPX2IyyAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Counts%20of%20angouleme&f=false

Here is what I came up with for Counts (19 total) of the Taillefer House


 * 1) Count Of Angoulême (1st of "Taillefer" Branch) c866- c886, Vulgrin/Wulgrin (I),
 * 2) Count Of Angoulême (2nd of "Taillefer" Branch) c886- c916, Hilduin/Alduin/Audoin (I), son of Wulgrin (I)
 * 3) Count Of Angoulême (3rd of Taillefer Branch) c916- c945, William/Guillaume (II) aka William "Taillefer" I, son of Hilduin/Alduin/Audoin (I) [also first time "Taellefer" is used)
 * 4) Count Of Angoulême (4th of Taillefer Branch) c945- c950, Bernard (I), son of William (I), Grand-son of Wulgrin (I)
 * 5) Count Of Angoulême (5th of Taillefer Branch) c950- c962, William/Guillaume (III), son of Bernard (I)
 * 6) Count Of Angoulême (6th of Taillefer Branch) c962- c975, Ranulf/Ralph/Rudolf, Son of Bernard (I)
 * 7) Count Of Angoulême (7th of Taillefer Branch) c975- c975, Richard, son of Bernard (I)
 * 8) Count Of Angoulême (8th of Taillefer Branch) c975- c992, Arnold "Mancer", son of William/Guillaume (II)
 * 9) Count Of Angoulême (9th of Taillefer Branch) c992-c1028, William/Guillaume (IV) aka Willliam "Taillefer" II, son of Arnold "Mancer"
 * 10) Count Of Angoulême (10th of Taillefer Branch) c1028-c1030, Hilduin/Alduin/Audoin (II) aka Alduin "Taillefer", son of William/Guillaume (IV)
 * 11) Count Of Angoulême (11th of Taillefer Branch) c1030-c1048, Geoffroy, son of William/Guillaume (IV)
 * 12) Count Of Angoulême (12th of Taillefer Branch) c1048-c1087, Fulk/Foulques, son of Geoffroy
 * 13) Count Of Angoulême (13th of Taillefer Branch) c1087-c1120, William/Guillaume (V) aka Willliam "Taillefer" III, son of Fulk/Foulques
 * 14) Count Of Angoulême (14th of Taillefer Branch) c1120-c1140, Vulgrin/Wulgrin (II) aka Wulgrin "Taillefer" I, son of William/Guillaume (V)
 * 15) Count Of Angoulême (15th of Taillefer Branch) c1140-c1179, William/Guillaume (VI) aka Willliam "Taillefer" IV, son of Vulgrin/Wulgrin (II)
 * 16) Count Of Angoulême (16th of Taillefer Branch) c1179-c1181, Vulgrin/Wulgrin (III) aka Wulgrin "Taillefer" II, son of William/Guillaume (VI)
 * 17) Count Of Angoulême (17th of Taillefer Branch) c1181-c1186, William/Guillaume (VII) aka Willliam "Taillefer" V, son of William/Guillaume (VI)
 * 18) Count Of Angoulême (18th of Taillefer Branch) c1186-c1202, Aymer aka Aymer "Taillefer", son of William/Guillaume (VI)
 * 19) Countess Of Angoulême (19th of Taillefer Branch) c1202-c1220, Isabella aka Isabella "Taillefer", daughter of Aymer,
 * 20) Count Of Angoulême (1st Of The Lusignan Branch) c1220-cont, Hugh X (Of, De, D') Lusignan, Wife of above Isabella of Angoulême

Not all the sources are in 100% agreement (they never seem to be on any persons or subject), but they are relatively close (some skip minor/short term holdings, other jilt the "count" around a bit). This is the best median ground barring a professional historian specializing in the time/families/titles getting involved. At this point, would prefer a seasoned vet do editing to live pages. Maybe another day, I will go through, if no one has done it already, and start my "editing" career and link these to the correct pages and write up missing ones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Collision-Shift (talk • contribs) 02:34, 20 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Added above referenced information, will start to pour through the "linked" pages soon, and correct them as needed as well as proper redirects. Collision-Shift (talk) 19:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Final call for input
Before I attempt to run through all these individuals and finally fix them. It has been a year since my original concern, findings, and posits. NO movement has been performed, so Unless there is objections, I will try my best to flesh out this whole line and correct the links (with senior editor help, I hope.)Collision-Shift (talk) 20:35, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * No objection from me. Whatever you do, it might be wise to keep an eye on this article's version in Wikipedias in other languages and document any discrepancies with your own finding here on the talk page. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:36, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * thanks for the encouragement, and I have already considered looking at the de and fr versions at least for comparison (a lot of my reference books are actually in French). It will take a while. Collision-Shift (talk) 13:18, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Who can help, I need 9 Pages created and titled correctly, and 4 pages renamed to the correct subjects (or I can copy the incorrect body to a correct page and correct the wrong ones) and a fixed redirect the following are my proposed changes/additions:


 * add William I of Périgord with redirect for William I of Angoulême
 * add William II of Angoulême
 * (existing William II of Angoulême needs renaming to William IV of Angoulême)
 * (existing William IV of Angoulême needs renaming to William V of Angoulême)
 * (existing William V of Angoulême needs renaming to William VI of Angoulême)
 * (existing William VI of Angoulême needs renaming to William VII of Angoulême)
 * (redirect of William III of Angoulême need removal after William III of Angoulême page is created)
 * add Bernard I of Angoulême
 * add William III of AAngoulême
 * add Ralph of Angoulême
 * add Richard of Angoulême
 * add Arnold of Angoulême
 * add Alduin II of Angoulême
 * add Geoffrey of Angoulême

if anyone can help with this I would appreciate it, and will flesh out the pages as time permits :) This wil also allow the EN pages to synch up with the DE and FR pages on the same line. Collision-Shift (talk) 16:14, 2 November 2011 (UTC)


 * You do not get to set "final calls" (especially mere hours before you make major changes), nor do copy-and-paste moves (which are against policy). I am willing to help set this straight, and create needed articles, but it needs collaboration and respect for reliable sources (again, per policy). Srnec (talk) 22:35, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

My bad, been patient for over a year on this, and felt it was time to fix it. "final call" was a saying, not and end all be all statement. thanks for removing the "questionable" web sources, was not sure if I should have removed them or not. look forward to future collaboration.Collision-Shift (talk) 13:07, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

A missing count, Ademar (916-926)
Should Ademar (Aymer), son of Emenon, ex-count of Poitier be inserted, and William II's reign be show as starting in 926? The French wiki has that listing. He married Sancia, daughter of Guiallume I of Perigueux (another son of Vulgrin I here), and seems to have held the county after Audoin's death. The sources seem to get tricky here, as Ademar of Chabannes, whose chronicle a lot of this stuff is based upon, is hazy. André Debord makes a case for Ademar being count on pages 101-2 of La société laïque dans les pays de la Charente Xe-XIIe. There are a few references to Ademar being a count, such as a charter in the Cartulary of Saint-Cybard that has his name along with his wife Sancia's.

The citations here point to the "Medieval Lands" website, which lists William II as following Audoin. Yet it also mentions that the Annales Engolismenses calls him "Ademarus comes Engolismensis" (http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/AQUITAINE.htm#Ademardied930).

I'm not sure if he'd be considered as part of the House of Taillefer either. Aibara (talk) 23:49, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I've long been wanting to fix this article: many dates given by Cawley for the counts in the ninth and tenth centuries are incorrect (he even missed two counts), often in direct contradiction with several primary sources (Adémar of Chabannes Chronicle, the Annales Engolismenses, etc.). I've cited three modern historians, Debord, Bourgeois, and Watson (see article for full citation) in his place with the corrected dates. I had corrected most of the Lusignan dates previously, following Delisle. Unfortunately, it makes some of the dates less "pretty," but at least the false sense of accuracy has been dispelled.Aibara (talk) 22:19, 15 March 2014 (UTC)