Talk:Courtsiding

Thorough rewrite - Courtsiding is a practice not a criminal offence
The article should primarily define and explain courtsiding, not merely state that it is an alleged offence in one country. It has been observed in several countries, so the focus on Australia/Victoria is unwarranted. Futhermore no evidence has been supplied to suggest that it constitutes an offence in Australia, especially now that charges against Dobson have been dropped. The article focused too much on the individual case of Dobson, and not enough on the general practice of, and reasons for courtsiding. I have rewritten it in a far more balanced way.

I will provide references in due course - within the next 48 hours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.76.163.24 (talk) 07:22, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Why is this illegal?
I feel that some explanation is needed in the article, of why anyone should consider this should be an offense. Naively, it seems that if a betting company is willing to take bets on the outcome of an event that is already over, it should take the consequences. Maproom (talk) 12:55, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I see that Eachway has provided the answer with his recent edits: courtsiding is not illegal. Maproom (talk) 16:08, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The article already says that it is illegal as it is "engaging in conduct that would corrupt a betting outcome". Eachway needs to strongly source the fact that it is not a crime, given that each and every source we have at present says it is. Mat  ty  .  007  17:31, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * As far as I am aware, the only article to state categorically that it is illegal in Australia is the first Daily Telegraph you referenced. This article was posted on the 15th January and was removed on the 16th January, as a result of a request from Sporting Data. The conversation is on Twitter...


 * Ben Rumsby ‏@ben_rumsby Jan 15 - Courtsiding a growing menace, British sports warned: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/australianopen/10575346/Sport-on-alert-after-first-arrest-for-courtsiding.html
 * Steve High ‏@eachway Jan 16 - @ben_rumsby We consider this to very poor journalism and have asked The Telegraph to retract it due to several factual inaccuraices.
 * Ben Rumsby ‏@ben_rumsby Jan 16 - @eachway Happy to publish your statement. Follow me and I'll DM you so you can fully explain the practice.
 * Steve High ‏@eachway Jan 16 - @ben_rumsby Excuse me if I have higher priority items on my list. Still happy to go with your article?
 * Steve High ‏@eachway Jan 16 - @ben_rumsby Our legal advice continues to support the view that 'courtsiding' is not cheating and therefore not illegal in UK.
 * Steve High ‏@eachway Jan 16 - @ben_rumsby Please withdraw the article.
 * 10:57 AM - 16 Jan 2014 · Details
 * The article was withdrawn within 15 minutes of this conversation. The fact that your article references this article 7 times casts doubt on its validity. The article makes a number of false claims, amongst which are the following...
 * Steve High ‏@eachway Jan 16 - @ben_rumsby Our legal advice continues to support the view that 'courtsiding' is not cheating and therefore not illegal in UK.
 * Steve High ‏@eachway Jan 16 - @ben_rumsby Please withdraw the article.
 * 10:57 AM - 16 Jan 2014 · Details
 * The article was withdrawn within 15 minutes of this conversation. The fact that your article references this article 7 times casts doubt on its validity. The article makes a number of false claims, amongst which are the following...
 * The article was withdrawn within 15 minutes of this conversation. The fact that your article references this article 7 times casts doubt on its validity. The article makes a number of false claims, amongst which are the following...
 * The article was withdrawn within 15 minutes of this conversation. The fact that your article references this article 7 times casts doubt on its validity. The article makes a number of false claims, amongst which are the following...


 * That courtsiding is illegal in the UK - categorically refuted by the UK Gambling Commission, and sourced.
 * That courtsiding is proven to be illegal in Australia - not the case as it will depend on the outcome of the charges. One arrest proves nothing of the sort.
 * That Sporting Data is worth £25 million - a simple search of Companies House information will show this to be an error.


 * I stated in my version of the Wikipedia article that The Daily Telegraph was erroneous and, given the facts presented, it is hard to argue that it is not. To make the claim that courtsiding is a crime in Victoria requires more than this erroneous article.


 * For the purposes of openness, I want to be clear that I do work for Sporting Data. However, that does not change the facts.


 * Eachway (talk) 19:35, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi . Your point 1 was fixed by you, which I thank you for. Point 2 you also changed, and I am just cleaning up. Point three is not of relevance to the article. I can't really follow the Twitter conversation, but I get the gist, that the DT was in the wrong and fixed it.


 * Thank you for clarifying your involvement, it simplifies things greately when people state their relation to the subject. I hope the article is better now. Thanks, Mat  ty  .  007  19:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)


 * With regard to my comment which started this thread: I see now that the man arrested for courtsiding was in fact the agent of a betting company. This does not affect the fact that his action was not an offense under any legislation. Maproom (talk) 18:41, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, there is a law in Melbourne with regards to exploiting the gap between events and updating odds, and the man was arrested, but the case was dropped. The article doesn't say that it is illegal, it says it is an 'alleged crime'. Mat  ty  .  007  18:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The 10-second delay
Courtsiding is only an issue because of the 10-second delay. If television companies transmitted sporting events live, with no delay, there would be no motivation for courtsiding. So it is relevant to know why the delay is there. Is it because of Janet Jackson's nipple? Maproom (talk) 12:15, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have learned that the delay is not inserted deliberately. It is a technical consequence of the way the signal is transmitted. Maproom (talk) 09:16, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

The Sporting Data Affair
This section first appeared in the Betfair Wikipedia page and has been removed by Toohool as it violates WP:BLP in that it makes unfounded accusations against me (Steve High, CEO of Sporting Data). Please see the Betfair Talk page for more details. There are already references to the arrest in Jan 14 on this page and this content does not seem to add much. This section was added by a Betfairmole as part of a campaign against me personally and against Betfair more generally. This user has subsequently been banned for sockpuppetry and is not above posing as a Betfair employee to paint the company in a bad light.

Eachway (talk) 22:09, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

"Criminal law" template
The evidence, in the article and its sources, is that courtsiding is not and never has been a criminal offence, in Australia or anywhere else. I propose removing the template, unless persuaded otherwise Maproom (talk) 14:22, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

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