Talk:Covenant (Halo)/Archive 1

Similarities between Protoss and the Covenant?
Seems to me like covenant are based on protoss from Starcraft. Think a section about this should be added? For example, both often wield energy blades, are religious and technilogically advanced, and are descended from/revere a mysterious advanced race (Forerunners and Xel'Naga) - Disko


 * If anything, the Covenant are more likely based on the Pfhor and S'pht of Bungie's Marathon games (with the Jjaro fulfilling the role of the Forerunners), which would predate Starcraft by at least 4 years. If we're going to assume direct inspiration, I'd actually guess it went the OTHER way (ie, Marathon was VERY influential).  On the other hand, I don't see the comparison to be necessary at all, since I'm sure anyone with 20 minutes to spare researching earlier sci-fi stories could find previous inspirations for both.  Unless we have clear sources detailing one was based on the other, it's just speculation anyway.  Hossenfeffer 13:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * This day and age, sci-fi creators have no choice but to base their stuff on something else. It's extremely difficult to be entirely original, as they were likely influenced to do sci-fi by an earlier work. As far as the Xel'Naga/Forerunner similarity, the concept of an ancient advanced alien race leaving artifacts is present in many sci-fi novels/movies/shows. The most prominent example, in my opinion, are the Stargate series. Chronolegion 12:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Shade
Should the Shade entry be in weaponry rather than vehicles? --OGoncho 02:23, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Vehicles
There is also a troop transport vehicle that is currently unnamed. Like the Ghost and Banshee, it hovers. The vehicle also has a Shade turret mounted on top. Introduced in Halo 2.

Shadow? Spectre? --OGoncho 02:28, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Most likely the Shadow. Spectre isn't too efficient in troop transport (driver, gunner, two riders).

Who ever said it was unnamed was crazy, it tells you exactly what is it in the booklet that comes with the game.--24.125.211.50 00:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That was probably written before the game came out. --OGoncho 23:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

"Engineers"
What are Covenant Engineers? Were they just introduced in the books? I don't remember them in the games. LockeShocke 02:23, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

--

Engineers were in the pc version of halo1. They were only found if the game was modded by a mod program such as Spark Edit. They are non combatents and will not fight if faced with death.

Engineers are exactly what they sound like - the workmen of the Covenant. Detailed descriptions can be found in the first Halo book, and Halo: First Strike.MrJammie 22:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Sub-sections and pictures
May I suggest making the separate species and weapons entries sub-headings instead of bulleted lists with the names in italics? Also, this page could use a lot of pictures. Does anyone know the legality of the screenshots on Bungie.net? It would be a great starting point for gathering pictures. LockeShocke 02:26, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Spec. Ops. Elites
I believe that the Spec. Ops. Elites are a metallic black that can be mistaken for white under certain lights. Can anyone confirm/disprove? --OGoncho 06:52, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I didn't notice any spec ops, but I believe red elites are a new addition, and some honor guard elits with big goofy hats as well. In one of the last levels you play the Arbiter (I think it is the very last level, in fact) you are accompanied by an elite wearing armor that makes him resemble the queen Alien - if anyone's seen the movie. He has a big, pointy, diamond-shaped helmet. All of his armor is silver, if it helps. Just, for what it's worth. I don't know if he's spec ops... LockeShocke 13:44, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)


 * I correct myself. Looking through the Art of Halo book, they list a spec ops elite being dark - black or steel or gray or something to that effect. So you were right originally. Confirm. LockeShocke 14:37, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

I agree with the Spec. Ops. being a metallic black, more like a dark grey, but it would be labeled black of course. I would also suggest putting the color Platinum (sometimes referred to as White or Silver elites) under the Gold color, and also the Blue/Grey Elite High Councilers above the Gold Elites in the Caste System. Lord Spade 11:51, Nov 26, 2004

Splitting up into multiple pages
May I suggest splitting up this page? IE: Covenant Weapons or List of Covenant Weapons, List of Covenant Species, List of Covenant Vehicles... I just don't like the way it's laid out now. I think splitting it up would be more Wikipedia-like, as now the page is just a big long list and the italic titles within the headers are hard to discern. I especially don't like the bulleted list with the italic names. Maybe ditch the list and make every weapon, species and vehicle a three or four equal sign header? LockeShocke 14:42, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

I'd like to come back to this. Going through and editing some pages, I realized just how many species there are, and I think it would be a good idea to have a List of Covenant species page, where we could just copy-paste a lot of this information and then just link there. That would fix all of the Elite, Grunt, Brute, etc., ghost links, and just turn them into List of Covenant species#Elite, etc. LockeShocke 05:00, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)

I don't understand why each species doesn't have its own page. They easily pass the pokemon test and have more content on here to be longer than a stub. GWatson &#149; TALK 12:55, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The Library as a resource
The second External link on the Covenant page - the Library - is an incredible resource, extremely extensive, with a wealth of information. Anyone know anything about it - is it a spinoff of Bungie's site, or anything? I'm just so impressed with how much is there, including all the pictures. We should get in touch with them regarding the rights to some of their screenshots and renders: if we ever get around to splitting up this page, I think they would quite come in handy. LockeShocke 03:01, Nov 25, 2004 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, it's just a fan-site. BTW, don't trust their I Love Bees info, the information is a bit mixed up. But there are other places for that. --OGoncho 03:49, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Covenant Caste System
-I would like to know the source of the placement of the Brutes in the Caste system. I find it hard to beleive that Brutes will come before the Hunters and Elites (the Elites part could be contreversial). Until the 4th book comes out I don't think anything can be clear, but in the game, I find the order should be like this Prophets, Hunters, Elites, Brutes, Jackals, Engineers, Grunts, and Drones. In order of Rank I find the list should go like this: Prophets, Elites, Brutes, Hunters, Jackals, Engineers, Grunts, and Drones. I put Elites before Brutes for a couple of reasons. One: The Elites have seats on the High Council, the Brutes do not and they only take direct orders from the Phrophets and or the Hierarchs (where as the Elites have higher authority politically and Military). I know in text the Brutes come before the Hunters but in game, I've seen one Hunter flatten 6 Brutes in one swing. I find it hard to beleive the Brutes, (in the Caste system) come before the Hunters, in rank the brutes come first before the Hunters, that I can agree with. --Lord Spade 23:30, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * -I know that with the confusion and disorder of the Covenant (the Flood, Civil War) and the replacing of the Elites within all orders of The Covenant alliance. I think we should place the Caste System at the beginning of the game. --Lord Spade 00:23, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

They grunts are after the drones.

Hunters before Elites? In many Halo resources, it says Hunters are deployed as tanks, and Elites are field commanders. To me this suggests they answer to Elites on the battlefield. MrJammie 22:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Deleted Scenes and Characters
I was watching the extras on the Collector's Edition DVD and there was a scene called by the "Mural Scene" by Joseph Staten, the script writer for Halo (and the voice of the Grunts). The "Mural Scene" was cut because it gave out too much information at the time. The "Mural Scene" occurs after the Prophet of Regret is killed and the changing of the honor guard, which makes it into the final game, but is longer and also presents a setptych detailing the history of the Covenant. The scene, commentary, and the illustrated seven piece mural goes into detail on how the Covenant was formed and the order of the Convenant races were subjucated and how the castes are set up (which would clear up some confusion).

Also, and since he appears in the "Mural Scene" but not in the actual game, there was a character called Gwmar, IIRC, who were a race of jawless giants subjucated by the Covenant and pretty much were the melee-monger equivalent of the Hunters. The Bungie crew make several comments about them on the DVD that they would've liked to include one of them as a boss character. I think they were originally to be in the first game and rendered and added to the second, but they were ultimately cut.
 * Is there any chance you could obtain the video from the dvd and post it? ;)--Zxcvbnm 17:23, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The question is, since they were deleted official material, and there's still a chance they'll be added into the Halo mythology (much like the unseen Engineer), is it still valid to add this article?--YoungFreud 21:51, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd keep it separate from the bulk of the material. Because the material was removed from the game, it is still subject to change in any future sequels. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 22:45, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The jawless giant I mentioned before is the Drinol, which is now listed as one of the Covenant caste. The Collector's DVD does have shots of the drawn design and the rendered model. Should a picture of this be included, or withheld for copyright reasons? --YoungFreud 01:04, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * By all means POST IT!--Zxcvbnm 02:20, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Drinol
I was wondering, since there's been a small edit war about what the true name of the Drinol is, I recall in the Art of Halo, in a chapter about making the map for Containment Zone, of something called a Juggernaut. I'm wondering if the Juggernaut is perhaps the human name of the Drinol.--YoungFreud 03:21, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

That is a possible assumption because its easy to remember that Bungie takes things from there own games. And they do have a Juggernaut in Marathon.


 * Maybe the Juggernaut is the great destroyer in the popular internet series, Red Vs Blue. I believe that Bungie and RVB made the Juggernaut and great destroyer coencide.

I doubt a spoof show (however hilarious it is, bless RVB) would ever be incorporated into the Halo canon. The Juggernaut is a deleted design for the Flood, though perhaps the Juggernaut is the infected form of the Drinol. MrJammie 22:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Possible Defacement?
The following appear to be deliberate insertions of fake/derogatory material by 65.26.179.45:

The "Military" section

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Covenant&diff=36753517&oldid=36658248

Yellow Armor, Pink Trim, Cute Headpiece - Ultra Gay Honor Guards

Brute with Dildo & K.Y. - Lesbian Captain

The "Hunter" section

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Covenant&diff=prev&oldid=36754313

Many more insertions, including:

They are the retards of the Covenant Empire.

Hunters are fitted with large plates of solidified pancake batter

This, of course, is religious bullshit.

These are the only contribs by this user.

Rise


 * If you think it's defacement, remove or revert. --YoungFreud 07:14, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Shitshaker?
God, who put that stupid "Shitshaker" thing in the Species section? For some reason, when I try to go to the edit page to take it out, it brings me to an error page. Someone fix it.

Hunter Subjugation
Where is it stated the Hunters were impossible to defeat in land combat so air forces had to be used to make them join the Covenant? Is it stated in one of the books or is just a theory on the Taming of the Hunters?


 * I believe its mentioned in Art of Halo or in the official strategy guide, which uses canonical information from Bungie themselves. -Peptuck, too lazy to sign

Drone's in Space
Is it just me or does this article completely go against common sense(4.8), there is no atmosphere in space, just a vacuum, therefore a winged animal would not be able to fly. Anyone see my point, if so, can someone who knows about them better fix it? -hexhunter 10/04/06
 * Good point. I think in the first part of the game, it takes place in a high-orbit area where there is still a minute amount of atmosphere the drones can use. Other than that, gravity-simulators and such come into play.VegitaU 04:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Information on the action figure box, as well as in Art of Halo, indicates that Drones do have the ability to operate in vacuum. - Peptuck, too lazy to sign

Covenant fleet objective in First Strike
I did a thorough read of First Strike a while back, and I confirmed that no one ever expressly identifies that the Unyielding Hierphant's objective is to assault Earth, and that Cortana and Whitcomb merely conclude the Covenant were going to attack Earth. I modified the article to reflect this and clear up the apparent inconsistency between First Strike and Halo 2. Peptuck

Good call, it explicitly states that the Covenant didn't know the location of the human homeworld. They knew where Earth was, but I assume they had co-ordinates for the Ark (I think Bungie's confirmed that Earth is the Ark's location). When they found Earth, they were surprised to find it inhabited. MrJammie 22:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

No one actually said that the Unyielding Heirophant was going to assault Earth, but, unless I am mistaken, MC found something that said something about them going to Earth. OT: If you just put four tildes (~) it will sign your name and put the timestamp for you, Peptuck, so you don't have to write very much or check the time or something, and it's definitely much shorter than "Peptuck, too lazy to sign my name." Wendt 23:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Just expanded a little on this with the running theory I've heard that the Unyielding Heirophant fleet was to secure the arc, not Earth and after its destruction, regret tried to make something of a power play in grabbing it himself. Of course he got his ass kicked thanks to said planet actually being Earth and had to return empty handed to face Truth and Mercy's anger and retribution. -C O'Farrell

Prophet
Is mercy really deceased? I would call him deceasedish, or maybe flood-infected, but not deceased by a reasonable shot. WookMuff 04:47, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually for some reason in the back of my head I think the prophet may have once been flood, call it an stupid ideal but if you think about it is possible for the flood to evolve from a parasitized from to a mammal form which may be the reason why mercy is now apart of the gravemind tentacle.--Sinper 00:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree with you completely, but it certainly is an interesting idea. I think that gravemind just brought him there the same way he sends M/C and the Arbiter out, for the purpose of getting a better look at his brain. Perhaps. WookMuff 03:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

this is wrong
Most Grunts carry single plasma pistols and sometimes grenades. They never seem to "overcharge" the pistol and take out shields, but merely shoot it in single fire mode. Some may carry plasma grenades, but are often to slow in their attempt to throw it, and die with it in their hands. Somewhere in the history of the Covenant, the Grunt Rebellion took place; possibly in the Age of Doubt. An Arbiter was created to deal with the threat.

go play on legendary and go to white grunts. let them c u then hide for 5secs. 10% of the times when u face it again itll charge pistol at u, i saw it do it only the white 1s

u might need angry i first done it in gravemind prisoner cells


 * You know what's wrong? The above post... "u might need angry"? DPr77 08:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Assume good faith and don't bite the newbie, please. // 3R1C 16:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Social Faux Pas?
In the Society section of the text, it's suggest that "There is speculation that the Prophets' species are actually descendants of the Forerunners" - anyone know where this "speculation" comes from? If it's pure fan speculation, it's somewhat inappropriate for this section of the article (unless the Prophets have actually claimed, in-game, to be descended of the Forerunners), and might be better suited in the Forerunner article (where speculation of Forerunners-as-human-ancestors and Forerunners-equal-Jjaro is already present). I've added a "Citation needed" tag just in case, but I figured I'd mention here why. Hossenfeffer 13:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

BS Covenant ranks
I removed these ranks from the article:

Crimson - Grunt Captain White and Olive - Covenant Marine Grunt

Red Shield - Jackal Captain Violet Shield - SpecOps Jackal Minor Black Shield - SpecOps Jackal Major White Shield - SpecOps Jackal Commander Body Armor - Covenant Marine Jackal Carbine and Body Armor - Jackal Sniper Commando Shield {Unknown Material - Jackal Commander

JumpJet Pack and Covenant Shotgun - Brute Ranger Red Haired - Covenant Marine Brute White Haired Brute with Flag and Honor Guard Helmet - Brute SpecOps Commanders and Councilors White Haired Brute with Flag and Shield - Brute Chieftain

All of these ranks are bullshit, unless someone can provide information as to where they came from. I've never seen any of these in the books or games. Peptuck 19:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, those are quite ridiculous. Thank you for catching that nonsense. -Randall Brackett 19:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

All i have to say is wow. People who think they know what they are talking about but really have no idea... go home. People who have proof i welcome your sanitySythe Dante 15:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

After looking at the Covenant Ranks I thought that they seemed a little sloppy and cluttered, so I reorganized the section to be more organized by putting it in decending order, I included their Covnant names, and gave a more accurate discription of each rank.--King Chocobo 03:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)King Chocobo

Grunt Rebellion nonsense
This is getting highly annoying how often we have to delete this "Modification Process" nonsense. The fact that every time it appears its worded the exact same way indicates its being copy/pasted, but is it vandalism or is it simply people being misinformed and adding fan theories from a particular source?

(oops, no sig :S) Peptuck 06:44, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, i think its just people who can't accept that the Grunt Rebellion could be a serious issue. I personally giggle everytime the prophets mention it. The dichotomy between their oh so high and mighty voices and the images that i get when i try to comprehend the words "Grunt Rebellion" is just tooooooo much. WookMuff 07:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's just one guy using various IP's to promote his own fan theory.--Orion Minor 21:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

It was also used heavily when the Grunt Rebellion had its own article. I'm glad I made the call to axe it since there is a huge shortage of information for it which hardly warrants a separate article. Whoever keeps submitting it needs to get a life and fast. Not even Halopedia lists it and a lot of fan speculation has been kept there. -- Markendust

Action Figure Info
I just got a group of four Halo 2 figures. On the back they contain a good deal of data not found elsewhere. I'll type them up here later, but some of what they reveal include the name of the Heretic Leader and clarification on Jackal's role in the covenant as mercenaries.--Orion Minor 20:29, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

hunters
hunters arent hard honestly. noobs who wrote the hunter bit i guess


 * Well i guess we can't all be as hardc0re as you, mr anonymous! It all honesty, i have very little trouble with hunters, but only on normal difficulty... at higher levels i waste a whole lot of ammo trying to hit that sweet sweet orange!WookMuff 02:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Hunters are easy, all you have to do is get right next to them and attack. This works on any difficulty. The best weapon to use on this technique is the plasma sword or the brute shot. If you don't have either weapon small bursts from any weapon will do, if you're lucky the other hunter will shoot at you and hit his bond brother and kill him. King Chocobo 02:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)KingChocobo
 * any difficulty level? even on Normal you have to hit the orange stuff... WookMuff 04:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I would throw a couple grenades at one when it lands on the ground after leaving the ship and then use a powerful weapon (sniper, carbine, or assault rifle) to slay the damaged one. The other one would berserk, but have a low accuracy and exposed parts during the attacks. It is possible to kill them with this tactic without touching you nor your comrades. --Eiyuu Kou 19:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

This whole line of discussion is stupid and pointless - this isn't a forum to discuss your prowess as a videogame player or talk about "noobs". Yes, Hunters are considerably tougher than other enemies in the game - end of discussion. DPr77 08:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like for it to be known that it is possible to kill a Hunter in melee in Halo 2. It just takes a lot of time and patience. The-Rob 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Supreme Commander
Who keeps deleting the Supreme Commander uniform/rank? I've even put up a direct reference the the pages where he appears in the Halo Graphic Novel and it still got deleted. I'm not sure how much more proof I can give to keep a cited fact from being edited away, beyond scanning the image and uploading it. Peptuck 14:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

golden elites
is white elites supposed to be ranked higher or golden elites? gold ones seem to be higher but their armor is just like red elites
 * The white elites are most likely ultras, but they also seem to be able to command troops. It is possible that the gold elites are of a higher commanding position, but the whites are there to command when a gold isn't available. --Eiyuu Kou 19:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation Page
I'm not sure how to do this, but I think searching for "covenant" should lead to a disambiguation page rather than straight to a fictional race from some video game, as "covenant" refers to a WHOLE lot more.


 * It does. Do a check on the word "Covenant". Peptuck 16:29, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

What about the movie The Covenent. I'm sure a lot of people will type that in and get this. "The Covenant" should link to the disambiguation page. User:stargate70


 * We already have a disambiguation page link at the top of the article. Peptuck 08:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Elite Ranks
Okay, this nonsense with the Elite ranks is getting to be an edit war. Can someone please give a source for the ranks of "Fleet Master" "Ultra Honor Guard Commander" and "Special Operations Supreme Commander" that keep popping up? There's no evidence of either a Fleet Master or a Ultra Honor Guard Commander rank in Halo canon, and the Supreme Commander is exactly that: a Supreme Commander, with no "special operations" attached to it. Also, Spec Ops Elites are clearly wearing dark purple armor instead of black in Halo 2; can we stop changing this? Peptuck 18:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The "Ultra Honor Guard Commander" might be a reference to that glitch in Gravemind, where an Elite's armor is randomly selected. --OGoncho 23:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
We could really use some larger, better pictures. Colonel Marksman 18:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Working on it. Peptuck 20:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)