Talk:Covenant (Halo)/Archive 2

Portal to Ark referred to as the Ark
Says it right there, in the Halo 3 section, that Truth took the Dreadnought to the Ark to activate it when the human fleet ambushes him. This needs to be changed, as this is NOT the Ark; it is the Portal to the Ark.

71.180.144.236 20:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

SEVENTH age of reclamation
Did anyone else notice that the current Covenant age is the seventh age, and the it is of relamation the age in which the "reclaimers" will come perhaps i don't it just seems odd to me.

Seven is used many times in the Halo series. Don't ask me to list all of them. Chenzo23 03:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Uh-huh, you do know it was said in-game (Halo 2) that it was the ninth age right? Anonymous 21:40, 8 November 2007 (GMT)

Here are the stuff that are seven in Halo 2:

1. There are 7 types of covenant

2. 343 Guilty Spark's Number in actually 7x7x7

3. 2401 Penitent Tangent's Number in actually 7x7x7x7

4. Gravemind sometimes speaks in lines of 14 syllables. (e.g 1) This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded. This one is but flesh and faith, and is the more deluded. (e.g 2) Silence fills the empty grave, now that I have gone. But my mind is not at rest, for questions linger on. 5. In a certain level, there are seven grenades arranged to look like a circle.

6. The seventh age in the covenant calander

7. There are 7 halos.

8. There are 7 types of boardable vehicles

9. There are fifteen levels in Halo 2. (15 (Levels)-1 (Halo 1)/2 (Halo 2))

10.There are 7 types of multiplayer games

There are probably more, but these are the ones I managed to find.

User: agunimon60

Seven is simply a reoccuring motif in Bungie works. For example, the offcial Bungie fandom is called "The Seventh Column" or their "Seven Step Plan to World Domination." They simply use that number as an identifying trait and running in-joke among long-time Bungie fans. It is fun to observe, sure, but best not to look too deeply into it or make a big deal of it, you will just end up running yourself in circles looking for permutations on that number. - Fearless Son 17:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Elites Merge
The race itself isn't that important, or at least any more important than any other races; most of the article is POV, in-universe, and unsourced; once I remove the cruft, it wont' be that large and can be merged. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / contribs ) 02:35, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's mostly because there's not a whole lot of out-of-universe treatment in the article. I've been meaning to go into that article and do some work on it, I just haven't had time. An out-of-universe treatment would probably apply more than enough length to justify it having a seperate article.


 * Also, out of curiosity, what about it is POV? Peptuck 05:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed a fair amt in my effort to source some of it, but all the ranks could be removed and slimmed down. And the Arbiter section could e cut, it basically says everything the article does. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / contribs ) 16:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I moved this to the front because it needs to be discussed. I'm calling for removing the merge tag because no one has made an attempt to clear out the cruft (signifying to me that readers deem its important) in the two weeks since it's nomination. Please reply Support or Oppose // 3R1C 17:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing that for me, David. I've been a bit too busy to actually edit and only had enough time to patrol my WL for vandals :P // 3R1C 01:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Cruft removal!
This article is in dire need of cruft removal. Unfortunately, since the whole of wikipedia seems to be against this article being split into subsequent smaller pagers (vehicles, races, etc), the information is going to have to be prioritized and stuff not in accordance with wp:nor, wp:fict, et al is going to have to be removed. I'm going to start doing this today. I'm going to attempt to marginalize as many of my edits as possible so that anything someone disgrees with can easily be found in the history. If you have a problem with something I removed, post it in this section // 3R1C 15:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Disagreeing with a lot of the edits you just did,particularly the removal of grunt Rebellion, Taming of Hunters, and the Ages of the Covenant; Joe Staten has actually mentioned a lot of this in various interviews with the Halo.bungie.org Story Page staff. Peptuck 15:59, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That may be so, but it's still cruft :-\. I don't mean that disrespectfully, but that kind of information might be more suited to an actual Halo wiki. // 3R1C 16:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Vehicles Rewrite
I'm in the process of re-writing the section and subsection on vehicles. It's really ugly and not encyclopedic at all, not to mention hard to read. Questions, comments, concerns are more than welcome while I do this // 3R1C 21:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Changed my mind. Instead, I'm splitting the vehicles off.  I just realized this article is, what, 60-70kb?  Ridic. // 3R1C 23:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * the Human Vehicles in Halo page doesn't exist anymore... I'm sad, because the Covenant Vehicles in Halo still exists. Weird. Neil the Cellist 19:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Not likely for long. Without a bit of action, Covenant Vehicles in Halo will be glassed by people who don't seem to know or care about the Halo series (as there's currently a suggestion to merge it into that page rather than here). I'm taking some corrective action, but we should get the vehicle section back in here. --coldacid 04:45, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't make sense that the two factions would have different vehicle pages - we should either make them into one big "Halo Vehicles page", or just put the vehicles into their faction's articles. I don't want to do anything major like that (the Halo-related pages must be getting a lot of hits with the upcoming Halo 3 release) without getting some feedback. Booopper 19:39, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I say merge the two. After all, the human vehicles page is non-existent and the Covenant vehicles page happens to be there, which seems to be an unfair shot.  Mayeb we could just merge it into a Technologies of Halo page, but i think that's already existing.  Halo fan: Drakonis 21:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

The vehicle section should probably be merged. List of vehicles in the Halo universe, which was originally essentially Covenant and Human vehicles with descriptions, was [|deleted] some time back, with no indication to reverse that decision. Heck; I'd merge the pages myself, but I'm not exactly sure what would and wouldn't be appropriate to move in. Ourai тʃс 19:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Brutes
Guys, "jiralhanae" is Korean for "That's bullshit" (or many other more vulgar interpretations) It's been on this page for a long time, and I'm not a Halo expert by any means, so I want to make sure it's legit. Err, I want someone with the right resources to make sure it's legit. I suppose it could be a coincidence, but not likely.
 * I believe that's the correct name, but can you prove that it translates to that?--Zxcvbnm 04:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * It the correct name of Brutes. I've read on a page listing foregin swear words that it means a totally messed up agressive person. I think I've also heard Unggoy is Tagalog for monkey, or something like that. --OGoncho 05:23, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, "Jiral" means "seizures" or "erratic/insane behavior." "hanae" is a form of "to do." Put together, "Jiralhanae" is common slang for "bullshitting" or "acting crazy." Kinda of like saying "He's acting loco" but with more vulgar connotations. Anyways, seems legit, whaddyaknow Bungie has a sense of humor. Who would have thought.


 * Halopedia states that it means "stupid aggressive lunatic". That, not surprisingly, fits the behavior of the Brutes.
 * I added that to Halopedia, so don't take that as another source. --OGoncho 22:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Ghosts of Onyx page 192, "Jiralhanae: the Elite name for the Brute race" --Tyranoctonus 01:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Why doesn't it say the military rank of a white haired Brutes or councel members(when the Brutes replaced the Elites on the council). I meen shouldn't white haired Brutes be stronger by nature and be Brute veterens, and shouldn't council members have Honor Guard hellmet, flag and White hair, and shoudn't this be mentioned under Military. --[User:Anonamous]

its right i used to have the limited edition of Halo 2 and it is jiralhanae

Uh, just a speculation and question. Did anyone read Ghosts of Onyx? Spartan-III production included inducing chemicals that gave the trainees reflexes and reactions like a brute (agressive and reckless) in stressful situations, giving them an advantage if outnumbered. Also, some of these Spartan-III were MIA. Could this mean a betrayal of UNSC because of an overload of the "animal" inside the brains of these Spartans? Rollback 03:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)tnpirate92

What exactly do you mean by that? If you mean that you think a "rebellion" by S-IIIs could take place, then don't worry. First, at the end of GoO, only a couple of S-IIIs are left and they have been highly trained to defend humanity. Besides, who would they defect to? This is off the topic of this discussion as well. Please move this to the Spartan-II or make a Spartan-III page. El Oscuro 15:47, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Weapon usage among covenant
It is stated that elites use human weapons. As far as I can recall, the only time I have seen Elites use human weapons is when the arbiter chooses to do so, or gives a human weapon to one of his Elite allies. And I believe this only happens while fighting the flood, where human weapons are more effective. So it would seem that it would be better to rephrase it to say that Elites are capable of wielding human weapons, but do not choose to do so unless ordered to by the arbiter.

Also, in the same section it mentions the dual weilding of plasma swords by Elites in the Halo Graphic Novel. Should it also be noted that they are seen weilding a sword and rifle simultaneously, or that they seem to have their own variation on the jackal energy shield?
 * The brutes, however, have taken human weapons as 'trophies'. This does mean they could pick up the weapons and use them. You could also give one of your Covenant allies one of the human weapons, despite their hesitance to use it. --Eiyuu Kou 19:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The energy shield wielded by the Elites is an early version, before the Elites had the full energy shielding. The original trailer for Halo:Combat Evolved shown at E3 shows Elites wielding this type of shield. The-Rob 23:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I found this part of the entry odd as well. In all the literature of the Halo Universe, including Halo: First Strike and Halo: Fall Of Reach it is explicitly said that members of the covenant would (there is a quote to this effect, but i don't know where exactly) refuse to pick up fully loaded assault rifles at their feet, preferring to fight without a weapon, such is their disdain for human technology. This is extended to their reluctance to use nuclear weaponry ("Infidel weaponry" I believe they call it). Perhaps, though, after the civil war, the Elites changed their minds and decided, as Eiyuu said, to use human weapons if it is a stronger tactical option. El Oscuro 15:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In the Limited edition booklet, written from the perspective of, if not the Arbiter, a member of the Covenant, it says something along the lines of "While human weaponry is primitive and distasteful, given the option of a human weapon or no weapon at all, our forces should make use of them." I don't have the booklet myself, so if someone who does could check the exact quote? And it could be a case of individual fanatism vs. practicality, and not all of the Covenant are exactly genius material. Xiphe 05:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The Covenant's lack of use of "infidel" weaponry is inaccurate; the only source of this actually happening is when the Master Chief recals a Jackal refusing to use a human weapon and instead fighting hand to hand, in Fall of Reach; there's no other recorded point in Halo canon where the Covenant express a refusal to use human weaponry. There are several instances where they actually do use them; e.g. a Grunt carrying a Marine's pistol and web belt in The Flood, and the Elite executing Dowski with Keyes' pisol later on. Both the LE manual and Halo 2 have also shown that the Covenant have no qualms about using human weapons. Peptuck 06:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Covenant don't use them because, If I remember the quote from the book correctly, an elite makes the comment "Projectiles, how primitive." Chenzo23 03:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Sharquoi
Though they may have a part to play later in the Halo series, I don't think they deserve an section because there is so little useful information in it. Anyone agree with me? --Rubiksphere 06:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd say they deserve, at the very least, a mention, if for no other reaosn than to keep people from adding a Sharquoi section all the time. Peptuck 04:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I suppose that makes sense. --Rubiksphere 01:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm around eighty percent sure that the "Sharquoi" is a race of Covenant. I believe they were meant to be bosses towards some of the last levels, but were taken out for some reason, probably because Bungie wanted to live up to it's rule of "no bosses". I don't remember exactly where I heard this, but I think it was from the Bungie forums. They supposedly look bigger than a hunter, are whitish yellow. That's about all I remember. I read this some monthes ago, and maybe someone else has more recent insight, so I didn't edit the page. Chenzo23 03:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Vessels
In the list of vessels, I think the Covenant destroyer Bloodied Spirit, which was taken by the SPARTAN Blue Team and used to travel to the planet Onyx, should be included. It had a sister-ship, which was destroyed by FENRIS nukes, but I don't think the name of it was given. S W Is For Life 08:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Brutes in Halo 3
Does anyone have a good source for this section? I was about to remove it as speculation, but decided that I should bring it up first.  bibliomaniac 1  5  02:05, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The "Et Tu, Brute?" Vidoc is the primary source for most of this information. Peptuck 03:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Weapons List
This post might be a bit short but, would it be possible to get a covenant weapon list in this Wiki? Jaller141 21:17, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Dont even think about it. You probably weren't a member, but along with a bunch of other articles, List of Weapons in Halo 2, etc, and List of Vehicles in the Halo Universe were all deleted. Basically, no, making a weapons list would not work on wikipedia itself. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / contribs ) 00:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * At least that applies to a full arty. Have a short, summarized description of their weaponry applies just fine in the Technology sec. // 3R1C 17:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Drone's as buggers
More looks should be taken into this topic. As Orson Scott Card did give further descriptions of the buggers in later books. However, as to how much is yet to be seen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.192.181.84 (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

OSC's buggers are similar in that they serve a "hive-mind," but the physiology is notably different. I assumed the Halo buggers got the nickname because they are so irritating (hard to shoot because they fly around so much.) However, Bungie has admitted to being influenced by many other sci-fi works, and the Ender series was read by a LOT of people, most likely including many Bungie staffers...Smw543 12:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

massive cleanup
In between getting the Halo Graphic Novel up to snuff, I'm going to clean up this article. Which entails gutting a fair amount of it, as its unsourced speculation. So be warned. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / frog blast the vent core! ) 02:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The segment on the Ministry of Tranquility is correct. An earlier version of the article had a sourced statement by Joe Staten that the Ministry did exist, but it seems to have been lost in the shuffle. I'll dig it up in the morning. Peptuck 06:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks a lot better already. The next major target should be cutting down those species subsections. // 3R1C 01:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. excellent work. I would add that in the Hunters subsection, the information regarding them reciting war poetry and meditation comes from Ghosts of Onyx. I would dig up a page number, but my copy is MIA at the moment. Could someone else dig up the page number for the cite? Peptuck 20:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

GA Push
I think that this article is pretty much near a standard where we could have it nominated for GA. However, there are some things that have to be done:
 * Final Passthrough for sourcing/unsourced/pov statements
 * Grammar and copyediting (especially double spaces, for some reason).
 * Make sure it's out of universe

Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / frog blast the vent core! ) 16:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Taming of the Hunters
As far as I'm aware, the parts about the "Taming of the Hunters" section of the article are accurate, and are taken from excerpts of the Halo Story Bible shown in the Halo: Combat Evolved strategy guide. I think. Peptuck 20:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, then we probably want to find a source, either from HSB or HBO for all that, because I'd never heard it before. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / frog blast the vent core! ) 20:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

GA on hold
This article is in well shape; however some of the images on the "Species" section need to be sourced, after this has been attended I will gladly pass the article. - 凶 15:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Righto. I'll be away from my comp for a little while, but within the next two days I'll definitely have the time to do this. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / frog blast the vent core! ) 16:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorted out the source for the character images that weren't there, problem with the Drone image though, unless any one has any information, I think it is taken from Halo.com from the Character info section.Not directly released but somone has edited it out. Crimsonfox 19:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Got it. I basically stopped being lazy and added in specific page citations for both Halo and Halo 2 manuals, as well as some other minor sourcing. Dåvid Fuchs ( talk / frog blast the vent core! ) 19:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

GA passed
Issues for hold have been dealt with, congrats. -- 凶 20:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Grunts

 * The Grunts section states that they are five feet tall. I don't think this information is correct. HaLoGuY007 15:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Any one of our trivia wizards for this article have anything to rebuke that? O_o // 3R1C 17:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

IIRC either Bungie's own Bestiary or the Halo 1 manual state that they are five feet in height. They seem smaller because they're hunched over with the methane rebreathers and you're an eight-foot-tall Elite or Spartan. Peptuck 17:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Really? Wow. This changes my view on the game entirely. Thanks for the information. HaLoGuY007 01:15, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

For some reason people are still vandalizing the height specification. Neil the Cellist 01:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah. These people need to actually look at the Grunts in relation to, say, Marines. The Grunts are proportionally about two-thirds the size of the Marines. They look a lot smaller than they really are because they're hunched over and the player is OMG XBOX HUEG Peptuck 01:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Elite's are also fairly hunchy... when you get down to it most of the covenant troops have major posture issues! WookMuff 11:15, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Language section
Ok, I know this is as much OR as the section i just reverted, but wouldnt it be sensible to assume that the reason the covenant speak english in halo 2 as opposed to halo is because of the arbiter. Having to play roughly 50% of the game as a character whose language the player cannot understand, recieving missions, orders, and updates in a language the player cannot understand, is ridiculous. WookMuff 22:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I would have to disagree with you there. In S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl, you play a character who speaks Russian. Everyone around you, all NPC's also speak Russian. How do you understand then? English subtitles. Halo2, while having the facet of all NPC's speaking English (and occasional Spanish, but that's beside the point), also came with English subtitles. See for yourself, check under the Halo2 options panel on the main menu. I have reverted the edits back to what I saw fit initially.


 * Oh, and in addition, in Hitman: Contracts, many NPC's also spoke non-English languages, supplemented by English subtitles as well. Yes, these NPC's were there throughout the game, so the Arbiter-theory doesn't work; like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R., you hear the non-English throughout the entire course of the game. Neil the Cellist 00:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I also almost forgot to mention that Hitman: Blood Money is also a game that uses foreign language audio but also uses English subtitles as well.


 * Finally, I'd like to make note that all the games I listed above were based on the United States release versions of all games aforementioned in the preceding paragraphs. Neil the Cellist 00:58, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * excuse my typing, i have my fingers taped together to pretend i am an elite... its hard work. Anyway, your theory is no more valid than mine and the ONLY difference is that i am not trying to add my unciteable OR to the page. Other games have different methodds, so what? the only thing in either halo game that references language that i can think of is when cortana has too translate regret's signal into english. Now if humans have to do that, why think that the elites speak english? english wasn't even around when the halos went off last time, so its hardly likely to be the language of the forerunners WookMuff 01:03, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Likewise, the US version of Animal Crossing: Wild World has all characters speaking Animalese, subtitled into English. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 21:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Your edit summaries are silly and highlarious :P Regardless, its shown by a variety of sources that the Covenant have a language of their own, both in the games and in the manuals, esp. the Halo 2 Special Edition Manual (which, yes, is in english but translated into such) WookMuff 21:50, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Obvi, someone never watches foreign movies where you have to watch the movie in subtitles. Stop adding OR. // 3R1C 12:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I understand. No harm intended, it was my fault. Neil the Cellist 19:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * As another example of non-english voice actors and english subtitles, the trailer of Metal gear Solid: 4 on YouTube was in a different language (unable to tell what the language was) but the subtitles were in english. Drakonis 21:45, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the Bestiarium packaged with Halo 3, grunts speak English, I won't get into why; and in Halo: The Flood (the novel that coincides with the Halo 1 timeline) several high ranking elites speak English, implying they are capable. Grunts have always spoken English in the game (even in Halo 1) and at least some Elites also spoke English prior to H2. Hope my nerdy knowledge helps! By the way, Wikipolicy clearly says that just because other examples exist, that doesn't mean it's true in every case. English subs in an English game like Halo are for deaf people, et al. I move for application of Occam's Razor; the explanation that Bungie made the Elites speak English in order to simplify play is the simpler solution requiring the fewest unverified assumptions, ergo it should be taken as default unless one can prove otherwise. Smw543 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 12:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Abuse
Someone with the IP address 24.231.161.180 keeps editing the Halo articles, constantly changing certain words around or adding nuisance phrases like "Hunters are gay and are known to be bad at sex". I tried running a WhoIS IP Search but it yielded no results. I'm guessing that the IP is a proxy of a sort, because I can't trace it at all. Any ideas? Admin help? Neil the Cellist 19:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a game guide
I don't know who added this, but I'll remove it anyway:

"Hunters are hard to kill. They can be killed by grenades specificly plasma. If you dont have any of those try and get a beem rifle and remember they come in packs.


 * Good call, but try to remember to sign your edits. WookMuff 08:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers
This page is rife with spoilers, and lacks the standard warning.
 * Wikipedia doesn't use spoiler tags quite as often anymore. Peptuck 05:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Human-Covenant War
I am confused with the date that the Human-Covenant War started. The Halo: Combat Evolved instruction manual says it started in the year, 2517, thirty-two years before the events of Halo: CE, but Halo: The Fall Of Reach says it was 2525. Considering that Halo: CE came out after Halo: The Fall Of Reach, it would be more updated than the book and I would conjecture that it started in the year 2517. Lil Kizzle 15:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Tagalog meaning of Unggoy
Is there really a need to keep that in there? I noticed that the Korean meaning of Jiralhinae isn't there, despite the fact that consensus seems to agree that it means "berzerker" or nutjob, or whatever--and yet the Tagalog meaning of Unggoy seemed to sneak in there. I saw that and did a doubletake--"Is that what Grunts are called in the Philippines, or is this the meaning of Unggoy in Tagalog? What's this mean?". In short: Why is it there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.116.182.235 (talk) 03:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It shouldn't be there, as such a thing would not be wise, as if you put that one, you would need to put the others as well. Drakonis 16:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Question about Engineers
Just to ask, what exactly does it mean that they are coded in Halo 1. Does that mean they have a cameo or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.136.223.186 (talk) 18:02, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It means that models of the Engineers were created for the game and placed in the game's data files, but no instance of an engineer actually makes an appearance. Just like the flamethrower was made for Halo, but the player could never find it because Bungie had deliberately withheld it as it was not functionally complete.  - Fearless Son 17:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.199.15.33 (talk) 01:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)