Talk:Cradle of Filth/Archive 3

Opening Statement - Other Discussions
This page is primarily dedicated to past Discussions on the Cradle of Filth page that do not fall into either the Genre Discussion or Article Discussion pages. All of these discussions are inactive, any new posts should be directed to the Cradle of Filth Talk Page. -  The Haunted Angel  (The Forest Whispers My Name)

Anon
Who is the Wikipedia newbie who wrote Cradle of Filths article and sub-articles? They musta been really lazy and copied and pasted album reviews from a third party web site. Either that or are just an over-opinionated twat that never read the NPOV. All the album pages need to be deleted and the main article needs to be rewritten. Arm


 * Don't bite the newbies. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 19:42, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Former Members
I have a question about Jon Richard, the 91-92 bassist, according to this page. It says here that he was in the band 91-92, but on the Hecate Enthroned page it states the below:

The band (Hecate Enthroned) formed in 1993 under the name Daemonum by singer Jon and guitarist Nigel. After a few practices and recording a demo, vocalist Jon left the band after taking up an offer to join Cradle of Filth as their bassist. A year or so later, Jon rejoined and they changed their name to Hecate Enthroned, this time playing a more melodic black metal style.

Ok, so if Jon Richard left Daemonum, soon to become Hecate Enthroned, to join as Cradle of Filth's bassist as the Hecate Enthroned page above suggests then that would place him in Cradle of Filth post 1993, as Hecate Enthroned has only been around since 1993 per the Hecate Enthroned page. That would mean that his 1991-1992 status here is either completely incorrect or simply lacking in information. Was he in Cradle of Filth in 1991 and 1992 as this page says, then leave for Daemonum/Hecate Enthroned, and then return to Cradle of Filth? I have been looking all over the web to figure this out.

The similarly lists him as being in Cradle 1991-1992. Under the Jon is listed as a member of Hecate Enthroned from 1995-1999.

So, what's the right answer? When was Jon Richard in Cradle of Filth and when was he in Hecate Enthroned? Is the former members section here incorrect or is the Hecate Enthroned page here incorrect?

Archenhaust 05:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Seriously good question. According to Death2 who made the pages for the Cradle demos, Jon Richard plays bass on all three Cradle demos recorded in 1992.  Plus the official Cradle website makes no mention of him at all, and the lineup history only starts with their first official release, The Principle of Evil Made Flesh in 1994, which would suggest that he was certainly only in the band pre '94.  I'd be inclined to take that as accurate...  You'd think the official Hecate Enthroned site would be trustworthy, but it says that Jon LEFT Daemonum to join Cradle in 1994 and only returned in '95.  But since those years saw the first two official Cradle releases and he's definitely on neither of them, it would SEEM not to be right...


 * So it looks to me as if both the Hecate Enthroned Wiki page AND (unlikely as it seems) their official website are incorrect. But if you discover otherwise, let us know and we'll make changes!  All the best,  Cardinal Wurzel 22:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the help, but it seems as though we are as lost as ever. It would seem at least reasonable that he was not a member 1994 onward, as you guys said, but still there is nothing concrete. I will give some more info if I find anything of worth. However, meanwhile I would think it wise to put some sort of disclaimer on the years attributed to Jon Richard on this page. I just am not sure what to do there so I will leave it to you guys who have been here for a while and have more of a right to do so.

Archenhaust 05:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Just noticed that Rockdetector says he left in 1992 after the Orgiastic Pleasures demo, "to form Hecate Enthroned". --Cardinal Wurzel 08:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

New album
The new album is out now. they will also have a song on the Res Evil II sound track.

Vandalism...
Wow. Has anyone noticed how often this entry gets vandalised? I mean, I've had to revert it twice today. It's probably the most troublesome entry on my watchlist. Matthew king 09:11, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:26, 11 October 2005 (UTC)Maybe it's because people have so much to say about C.O.F. They either hate them or love them.


 * Could be... Matthew king 04:58, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know. I love them....but don't label them. I've added from stuff on the page and it's still there so at least I know I was right. Well...if you need any help let me know. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 14:40, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Comments on Cradle of Filth
The first time I heard the title song I was like "WOWWWWW!" It was freaky! Really scary. that's okay, though. I like listening to scary music like CoF and another band called Demon Hunter. I can't really say which is the better band since I have none of CoF's CD's but I like DH and CoF. Thanks for putting up this article.

Robot569 00:21, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Kill yourself mate, they are not scary, they are clowns without a circus.Czr 19:55, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

You do know that Demon Hunter is a Christian heavy metal band right? They really aren't a thing like Cradle of Filth.

Yeah lol. They are complete opposites. COF is a dark, black metal band (in my opinion. dont give me that shit about them not being black metal). Demon Hunter is Christian Metal. Just listen to the lyrics or look them up. COFs are about death, DHs is about Avoiding it. I mean really. Listen to "Not Ready To Die" by DH, then listen to "Lord Abortion" or basically any other song by COF. Heres a comparison of the lyrics.

Demon Hunter - Not Ready To Die "So when I'm taken to the sky and you're still here You can clear your mind and dry your tears When I'm taken home - and you're still here Just clear your mind - dry your tears"

Cradle Of Filth - Lord Abortion "I grew up on the sluts bastard Father beat blue Keepsake cunts cut full out easing puberty through"

COF makes me happy on the inside...

Hey. I am the person who wrote the part about Demon Hunter not being a thing like Cradle. I didnt have an account then. Well, if any of you thought I don't like Demon Hunter because I said that, your wrong. I like them just as much as Cradle. Just thought I'd clarify. Both of them make me happy inside.The Bickel 02:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Who's the Chick on the Nymphetamine Cover?
WHOS THE CHICK ON THE NYMPHETAMINE COVER???Axxion 04:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * There are six models in the booklet and the credits don't specify who is who. She's either Wanda, Anais, Justine, Aimee, Dena or Lupe.  That doesn't help you at all, does it.  Cardinal Wurzel 22:45, 3rd March 2006 (UTC)

No it doesn't. But whatever Axxion 03:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The chick on the cover is none of the above it will be on the site if not anything elsePaladin91 20:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm ... I'm not sure I don't have anything from them so I don't know. Robobot569 12:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The girl on the Nymphetamine cover is Emily Booth.

Is it?! Are you sure? Why isn't she credited on the sleeve? Cardinal Wurzel 21:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why she isn't credited. Maybe she just didn't want to be. I've heard of that happening before.

I'm totally not convinced. It doesn't look like her, she's not credited, there's no mention of it on her own website or Cradle's and a Google search for other sources comes up with zip. Why do you think it's her? Can you prove it? --Cardinal Wurzel 17:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I've heard its Dani's wife (name escapes me right now), but I'm not too sure on that.

Hmm. Her name is Toni, and I guess it could be her, but I'm not too sure. Doesn't look like her that much. I know she's the cover model for the new Angtoria album, though; could that be where this rumour sprung up from? Moose 08:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

That could be. I'm not sure. The thing I read (can't remember where I read it though. Damn memeory) just said Dani Filth's wife posing for a cd cover, and when I read that, I just thought it was a Cradle of Filth cd. So, that may be what I read, I just didn't read it all or something.

Just bought the cd, the special edition one. Not sure if it says the name of the woman in the original one. Its Liv Kristine Espenaes Krull, from the band Leaves Eye's. She's called the "Nymphette of Nymphetamine".The Bickel 02:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Wrong, Liv Kristine is nowhere on the Nymphetamine cover. I have just looked through the special edition case, and she is not in there, nor the original The Haunted Angel 02:23, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I swear its there. Just look on the second to last page of the booklet in the special edition cd. It says Nymphette on Nymphetamine. If possible, I'll post a picture of it later if you still dont see it (can't do it now, I'm not home at this moment.) So, if you still dont see it, just tell me.The Bickel 04:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That means that she sings on the track, not that she's the model on the cover. Cardinal Wurzel 08:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

What Cardinal said. - The Haunted Angel 11:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright then, why doesn't it say what she sings? It says what everyone else sings or what everyone else contributes musically except for her. Honestly, I'd believe you if it said, Nymphette in Nymphettamine, but since it says on, that makes me think she's the one on the cover. I may be wrong, I haven't been a Cradle fan for a long time, but I'm just stating what I think.The Bickel 01:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * She sings on "Nymphetamine" the song - not in it. "In" would be the wrong word.  You don't perform "in" an album - you perform on one.  Trust me - Liv Kristine is the female vocalist on "Nymphetamine (Overdose)" and "Nymphetamine (Fix)".  She's also in the video, which you have on CDROM if you've got the special edition of the album, so you can see what she looks like and verify that it's not her on the cover.  Failing that, just look at the pic on her Wiki page.  The models are actually all credited in the booklet, as "Dryads and Sylph".  Cardinal Wurzel 08:47, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, right after I got off the computer when I posted that, it came to my mind. I have downloaded the video, and I didn't know what she looked like until earlier when I did check out her wiki page. My bad guys.The Bickel 19:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

No probs. The Haunted Angel 20:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Answerphone Message
Does anyone know which magazine originally gave this away (if that's actually true)? Cardinal Wurzel 17:18, 4th March 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed it until a source is provided. Ley Shade 18:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

FINALLY tracked down where it came from (see here) although it would be good to know exacly which issue it was given away with. Cardinal Wurzel 17:22, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

CoF pwns
CRADLE OF FILTH FREAKIN PWNS!!!!!! i LOVE them! i mean sure, they're satanic, but who gives a shiny rat's ass!?!?!? sure everyone has their own opinion, but calling someone frikin satanic just cuz they listen to better music is gay...and people shouldnt just not be allowed to listen to them because they say stuff like "this is the end of everything; death is the season..ect" that kind of stuff. so yeah they're awesome but this thing needs more info about them. ex: what kind of guitars do they normally play? that stuff comes in handy for someone who plays the guitar and who loves these guys. so if you dont like them, fine, but if the only reason you dont like them is cuz they're satanic, ur gay. if you do like them, POWER TO YA!

First of all, they are not Satanic, only minor amounts of their stuff is. Second of all, what is wrong with Satanism? Third of all, this is [|irrelivant to the Cradle page], so take it to a forum. The Haunted Angel 00:08, 27 May 2006 (UTC) CRALDE OF FILTH IS AWESOME!!!


 * I don't think I've heard of "Cralde of Filth". Can I borrow one of their albums?  Cardinal Wurzel 20:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Stupid detail
Just a little stupid derail that I was wandering about. Is it Stuart Anstis or Antsis. Cradle of Filth Official page says Antsis as does Allmusic and several other cof related pages. While Anstis is on wikipedia (which is questionable by this talk so this is a Paradox, haha) and on several fan pages which is also questionable and Encyclopaedia Metallum aka metal-archives. Could somebody also take another look (if anybody is interested) and see what is his real name. I know it is just a small bit but aren't encyclopaedias supposed to be 100% accurate? Death2 14:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Official Filth website says Antsis, and Antsis gives you more results if you Google it. Not stupid at all - well spotted!  Cardinal Wurzel 17:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous IP shenanigans
Its a blocked user Leyasu who keeps edit warring on various articles using anons while blocked; he has already been indefinetly banned from various metal articles for similar things; Requests_for_arbitration/Leyasu if problems are been caused here, I suggest you contact admin User:Tony Sidaway as he was the blocking admin on various other metal articles, hope that helps. - Deathrocker 19:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip - I hadn't twigged. I've seen your name on a lot of pages but we've never spoken before. Hello! Cardinal Wurzel 08:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * leyasu had not been edit warring. deathrocker was placed on the same revert parole as leyasu and is currently in his second arbirrition case, for vandalising and violating policys.


 * in the intrest of beaing neutral, it would be best to leave the genre as debated, linking to the debated section. providing citations for all the relevant sections of that part would also be helpfull. that way, all opinions are recorded fairly, and no one opinion takes precedence over the others. - unsigned comment by 

Hi Leyasu! I could tell it wasn't you once I looked into it, so you have my apologies for believing Deathrocker. I think all the action yesterday must've been Mr Thereisnodebate. All sources used on the page (and suggested on on this one, except the guy's below) are now listed in the refs at the bottom of the main article. Do you think that's enough, or should they be sited actually within the article, with the little footnote numbers? I was looking at Iron Maiden, which is a featured article, and it seemed like just listing your sources at the end is enough... Woss think? Cardinal Wurzel 16:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think there's some confussion, there an anonymous IP who is editing this talkpage (217.218.173.78).... and then there is  who has been suspected by a couple of other users of been Leyasu's latest sock puppet account, who is discussing on this page too... neither have bothered to sign their comments, thus causing the confusion if you check this page's talk history.  you'll be able to see which comment was made by who.


 * On the main article for example


 * "# (cur) (last) 18:49, 16 June 2006 Cardinal Wurzel (Exactly HOW was that a bite? I was changing my own words to try and please Mr Anon!)


 * 1) (cur) (last) 18:25, 16 June 2006 81.157.83.1 (Revert. Violation of WP:BITE)
 * 2) (cur) (last) 16:49, 16 June 2006 Cardinal Wurzel (slight reword in the name of appeasement - "generally shuns" to "often dismisses". Plus a new reference.)
 * 3) (cur) (last) 15:57, 16 June 2006 81.153.47.24 (Revert. Blanking of section which has several sources on the talk page which wouldnt be hard to copy over to the article.)"


 * There, you are debating with anons of Leyasu, (not the same user who is using 217.218.173.78 and similar, which you are debating with in the section below this), Leyasu was found guilty of using anons to evade his current block (and indefinate block on numerous articles), reverting articles to last version before he got banned,, IP's such as these (all starting with the number 8)and several other sockpuppets were blocked by wikipedia adminstrators and logged here: . Hope that clears it up for you a little bit, regards. - Deathrocker 19:24, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Aw man this is so complicated. Strappingthesource certainly sounds like Leyasu to me, but if it IS him, he's actually agreeing with me, which is a fucking result! So he's causing no problems here - sorry if that's disappointing! I think the bite thing (above) was just a misunderstanding. Cardinal Wurzel 20:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Vampyric
Hi,

This is not a question about a metal style, but just about the spelling of vampyric - according to dictionaries "vampiric" is correct. Is "vampyric" the usual way to spell it when talking about metal? Can anyone provide an example? Thanks. --Amir E. Aharoni 08:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Sick and weak from my condition This lust, this vampyric addiction To Her alone in full submission ~ The Haunted Angel 15:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Where does it come from? --Amir E. Aharoni 17:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The song Nymphetamine, by Cradle. ~ The Haunted Angel 17:26, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Guys...
Isn't it about time that we archived this talk page, after all, it's getting pretty big. I would do it myself, but I don't follow which discussions on this page are still active. Any thoughts?  The Haunted Angel  (The Forest Whispers My Name) 22:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible to have one archive that's just all the genre stuff, and then one for everything else? Cardinal Wurzel 23:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's possible, if not unconventional. Usually Archives are done in time (such as on my talk page) although in a case such as this, I think it is completly understandable to Archive so that we have different past subjects in different areas, leaving current discussions here.  The Haunted Angel  (The Forest Whispers My Name) 23:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there's anything really currently ongoing, is there? So it'd be good to just archive everything and have a clean page. But it would be cool if we could have a specific "genre" archive that we can point people to. People like Strife82... Cardinal Wurzel 09:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well if there is no conversations going on now, I will probably make a basic archive tonight, but feel free to edit the names as you wish.  The Haunted Angel  (The Forest Whispers My Name) 16:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Systemic music
Black Metal was a movement against the Christian elite. Nowadays the youth knows that the story of Jesus is a boring old lie. Cradle of Filth failed to attack Christian Monarchy and peerage, but also all the Christian UK flags. In UK not only the National but many regional flags include a Christian cross.