Talk:Crane (machine)/Archive 1

Paul Kenneth Vikra
"The very first crane operator ( North sea) who actually managed to put an stand by vessel on pipedeck. During this incident the only casulty was an unfortunate seagal. " moved from article by: Gregorydavid 14:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Truck
A crane mounted in a truck to move breaked down vehicles to the garage is called a "..."?. See image http://www.gruascorsa.com.mx/gruasremolque/
 * What you link to could be called a "wrecker" in the US. although I think the type you link to would be a stretch to classify as a crane as there is no vertical lift involved. The "tow truck" design would probably be considered a type of mobile crane.  Although I've heard the names interchanged.--J Clear 17:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Hammerhead Crane
Hammerhead or Giant Cantilever Crane. Good PD photo here. Is this worth it's own section or is it a sub type of the tower crane? It seems to predate the tower crane. Perhaps both hammerhead and tower are types of Cantilever. Anyway I'm far from a crane expert/historian, so I'll leave it to those to sort out. There is an unlinked mention of one in Philadelphia Naval Shipyard that ought to link here.--J Clear 17:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It is an amazing photo showing what appears to be a number of heavy artillery barrels being lifted simultaneously. It looks like an extreme heavy duty tower crane with horisontal boom and crawler with large counter weight mounted on large tower with slewing beaings. Gregorydavid 18:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Lewis irons? lifting tongs?
The terms lewis irons and lifting tongs are used in the article, but I could not find any explanation for what these are. 「ѕʀʟ·✎」
 * see Chain-linked Lewis

Gregorydavid 15:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Also thanks for fixing the link in the article.  Note that the terms "lewis irons" doesn't appear in the Chain-linked Lewis article, should it?  Should it link back to Crane (machine)?   「ѕʀʟ·✎」
 * The Lewis irons are actually a specialised device which sometimes takes place of a hook when the lifting of heavy stone is undertaken. The Lewis irons also facilitate the placing of a heavy cut stone into its final position without any slings getting trapped under the stone. Gregorydavid 07:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Mechanical advantage
The text states:

The lever. A balance crane contains a horizontal beam (the lever) pivoted about a point called the fulcrum. The principle of the lever allows a heavy load attached to the shorter end of the beam to be lifted by a smaller force applied in the opposite direction to the longer end of the beam. The ratio of the load's weight to the applied force is equal to the ratio of the lengths of the longer arm and the shorter arm, and is called the mechanical advantage.

While the principle of leverage is correct, its application in the modern balance crane is not. The short end of the crane is where the counterweight is located, and the load is lifted by the long end. The mechanical advantage of leverage would go to the load.
 * I agree. The article doesn't mention any crane type that has the load attached to a shorter arm and force applied to a longer arm. The "lever" list item under "Mechanical principles" thus seems misleading. I also think this problem is what the first poster above ("Could someone explain how cranes harness mechanical advantage?") was referring to. - Mglg 23:02, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The counterweight at the short end of the beam is to help balance the crane as a whole.

Each crane has a load diagram that indicates what load can be lifted. In the case of a crane with a long horisontal beam the permissible load decreases with increasing distance of the hook from the tower. The actually lifting capacity of the crane motor and gear train is where the mechanical advantage comes in. The force in the cable at the hook is very high, but the force in the cable on the pulley that the motor feels is low. The machanical advantage is that the weak motor can pick up the load on the hook. To do this the pulley on the motor has to pull a realtively long piece of cable while the load just lifts off the ground. Gregorydavid 06:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes of course. But here we are talking about the entry "the lever", and specifically the statement that "The principle of the lever allows a heavy load attached to the shorter end of the beam to be lifted by a smaller force applied in the opposite direction to the longer end of the beam." This function of levers, while true, does not seem to apply to any part of a crane, and the "lever" entry should therefore be removed from the article. --mglg(talk) 20:10, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I added this image which has subsequently been removed: [[Image:Ancient well at Tiruchendur.jpg|thumb|Elementary manual crane at well near [[Tiruchendur]].]]

My caption clearly states that this is a type of elementary crane. The crane utilises the principal of the lever and is designed to enable one or more human beings to lift a bucket of water from a well. The lever is cleverly balanced so that it returns to the ready position when the bucket is empty. The sheaves, and winding drums were introduced some time later.. Gregorydavid 07:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That waterlifting device looks not like a crane, but a shaduf. Gun Powder Ma 22:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. Yes, it is exactly like a shadoof. Only with a crane some of the components and functionality have been developed and mechanised further..Gregorydavid 07:53, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Loader Crane
Almost invariably called a "Hiab" by its' operators, this is a hydraulically-powered articulated arm fitted to a trailer, used to move goods onto or off of the trailer.

Perhaps this is true in Europe, but I am unfamiliar with the term in the United States.


 * Never heard of that either, and I live in Denmark and work in a company with several loader crane trucks... By the way, cranes from Palfinger, Fassi and 3-4 other names that I don't remember are quite common in DK, so maybe Hiab and HMF shouldn't stand alone as examples? G®iffen 16:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * In the UK they are generally referred to as 'Hiabs', and not just by operators. I have revised the paragraph to suit, although the reasoning might be a bit weasly for some. EdJogg 18:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Table of contents
I think the TOC box should be visible without scrolling down the page so I've moved it up. Hope that's OK with all of you. Biscuittin 20:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Steam crane
I have added an article for Steam crane. Biscuittin 20:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Please keep an eye out for information to explain how they actually work, since this is not immediately obvious to the casual observer.
 * EdJogg 21:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Policy of inserting images
Could we go by the established Wiki practice of keeping images and text in close connection? It is getting a bit tiresome when everybody wants to insert his favourite crane pic at the top with the effect that the pictures move ever more in other categories. I am by now militarized enough to throw out every non-topical picture which violates the air space of my hard researched section on crane history. Regards ;-) Gun Powder Ma 00:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I follow Your militarizm :-) Personally I'd prefer the whitespace it eventually gives to insert one (1) good picture at the top of every relevant section, and then either create a gallery at the bottom or - better - link to Commons for further media. G®iffen 14:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

If somebody wants to do something useful on the illustration front, could they make an animaition (or a series of diagrams) showing the way jack up cranes build themselves? I.e. to illustrate this...-->>> Mike Young 11:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

New sections needed
In addition to the above cleanup suggestions, I think the following extra information could be usefully provided here. The sections should exist near the top of the article to assist readers understand what follows (and allow slightly more technical language further down).


 * Crane components
 * Brief description (with link where appropriate) of the essential and optional parts of a crane: jib/boom, winch, pulleys, rope/cable, gantry, tower, etc. Could also encompass lattice booms, telescopic booms, etc


 * Crane terminology
 * Not being a crane expert I cannot add much here, but the terms 'luff', 'hoist' and 'slew' have specific meanings, I believe, and I'm sure there are others

EdJogg 13:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to see the "Anti-two block device" and possibly the two-block failure mode added to the article as well. Very simply, two-blocking a crane occurs when the overhaul ball (the big cast iron ball right above the hook) is winched in too far and contacts the pulley or tip of the crane.  If the winch continues to pull on the hook, the tension can become so great as to snap the cable.  This drops the overhaul ball and hook at the very least (which can weigh up to 3000 lb or more) and if a load is being hoisted, the load will obviously fall as well.  This condition can also occur when a teloscopic crane is extended but the hook is not lowered.
 * An anti two-block device is any kind of device that prevents the above from happening. Position sensor and electronics, mechanical device, hydraulics, whatever. This is a key safety device on every modern crane and it should be included.--66.54.184.41 (talk) 21:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wrecking Ball
Should this be added to the list. I know they are not used, but it is still a crane. Is it? Thanks, CarpD 11/25/06

Wrecking balls are a type of below-the-hook device used on cranes. Not unlike electromagnets, slings, spreader bars, C-hooks, etc. Brem1964 (talk) 07:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup Tags
I have already done a quantity of tidying work, but it needs much more help yet.

EdJogg 18:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Introduction
The introduction contains a long list of crane types in an inappropriate style – this needs removing to the 'crane types' section, and serious copy-editing! Having removed it, the introduction will require a re-write, addressing: Essentially, the lead paragraph should provide a summary of the article for anyone who doesn't have the time to read the rest.
 * definition of a crane – which I think is fundamentally a hoist that can move the load laterally
 * inclusion of history
 * includion of 'how it works'
 * simplification of crane types covered
 * etc

EdJogg 18:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. I'm sure it will need polishing by someone else, but at least it now covers the following article with sufficient information to exist as a stand-alone section.


 * The following 'paragraph' was removed as 'unredeemable'. There is content within that is not otherwise covered in the article, but the lead paragraph is not the place for it, and certainly not in this form!


 * Construction cranes have either telescoping, lattice or articulating booms. Telescoping boom cranes include the Industrial, Rough Terrain, Truck Mounted, All Terrain and City Cranes. Lattice boom cranes include the Crawler Mounted, Truck Mounted, Ringer Mounted and Hammerhead and Luffing Boom tower cranes. Articulating boom cranes are mounted on commercial trucks and can have telescoping boom sections and hoists. Railroad Track and Floating Cranes can be either telescoping, lattice or articulating boom. Manufacturing cranes include the Mono-Rails, Bridge, Polar, Gantry and Stacker Cranes.


 * EdJogg 12:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Restructure?
I think the main sections are in an inappropriate order. The 'how a crane works' section should come first, followed by the history, followed by the types, with the other sections following behind.


 * Done – at least, I've had a go at it!
 * EdJogg 13:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

The 'types' section needs re-ordering. Not sure how. Various ways of listing:
 * Alphabetical - not really very helpful
 * By frequency? - most common types first?
 * Chronologically? - earliest form first (this would be a challenge!)
 * By size? - smallest cranes first (loader cranes?) right up to the floating ones?
 * By paragraph length? - this could work, since the more 'interesting' types will have more scope for descriptive prose

In all cases the aim should be to create a summary that could (potentially) lead to a Main Article. (This would appear to be the case with crane vessel, although whether this is exactly the same as a floating crane is another matter...)

EdJogg 18:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * These "types" are almost a joke to me. If we were to list all the applications and different places a crane might be mounted, we could go on forever.  Most of these "types" are very similar or identical designs, differing only in the place the crane is located.  These sections should arrange cranes according to lifting arrangement: gantry, tower, A-frame, rotating pedistal, overhead hoist, etc. --Dj245 (talk) 06:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Images
Several types of crane – notably the various mobile varieties – do not have photos, yet there are a whole raft of tower crane pictures. Would be better to have thumbnails of each type, with a gallery for the details of the tower cranes.

EdJogg 18:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * EXCELLENT diagram added today, just what this article has been calling out for! -- EdJogg 00:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Scope
Many of the sections only discuss current practice, for example, remote controls on Hiabs have not been around that long, and I suspect that there are many that still do not have such facility. I have addressed a couple of these areas, but I am no crane expert!

EdJogg 18:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

History
Stops at 1340!!! Much more work needed here!
 * Who built the first iron crane?
 * Who built the first steam crane?
 * Who invented the tower crane?
 * When did wire rope take over from 'rope' rope?
 * When were hydraulics first introduced?
 * etc

EdJogg 13:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Liebherr MK-100
I saw this crane on How Do They Do It? (Season 1, edpisode 4). It seems to be the most advanced of its kind, so I was hoping to see something about it on Wikipedia.I found this page on Liebherr's website. __meco (talk) 15:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

ranking of cranes
what is meant by ranking of cranes? what are the criterions on which ranking of cranes is done? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.236.171.115 (talk) 17:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Tower cranes are usually ranked/labled according to their meter / ton capacity. This is generally calculated as the the tipload in tons multiplied by the shortest jib length. e.g. A crane that lifts 7t at the tip of its shortest jib length of 40m would be a 280m/t crane. The same crane may have a maximum jib length of 70m and achieve a tipload of 3t @ 70m.

Telescopic mobile cranes and crawler cranes are generally ranked by the maximum achievable load i.e. 300t TheHamburger (talk) 07:25, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Tower Crane Counterweights
I'm looking at a Tower Crane which has several concrete counterweights held in place like a stack of playing cards. Does anybody know how those counterweights are typically held in place? Poobslag 16:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The counter weights a generally held in place by steel pins. These pins then rest in slots or wedges located on the main members of the counter jib.

It should also be noted that not all counter weights are made from concrete. Some are made from steel or cast iron.TheHamburger (talk) 08:02, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Definition of crane

 * A crane is a mechanical lifting device equipped with hoists, wire ropes and sheaves that can be used both to lift and lower materials and to move them horizontally.
 * The generally-accepted definition of a crane is a machine for lifting and moving heavy objects by means of ropes or cables suspended from a movable arm.

Both of these statements are made in the article. Obviously the early cranes did not use sheaves and winders. We need to clarify the definition before we go into history.Gregorydavid 14:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The first definition, from the article Lede, is long-standing. I did not change it as I could not come up with anything better. The second definition is mine, since the article covers a number of machines that do not fit the first definition!  The early cranes did not use wire ropes, either, but you try and find a definition that describes all types of crane...


 * My view is that a crane that does not provide any form of lateral relocation is actually just a hoist. What makes a 'loader crane' a crane, when it doesn't use ropes?  Why isn't a grab-loader, which is essentially the same thing with a bucket grab rather than a hook, also called a crane? 'fraid I gave up in the end!


 * EdJogg 00:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use industry standard definitions and categories such as from the ASME standards or an international equivalent? Brem1964 (talk) 07:24, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say that a crane is : Any mechanical lifting device that suspends the load.TheHamburger (talk) 10:00, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Jib Cranes
re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pedestal_Jib.jpg (at right) The picture is an attempted HDR. It looks very out of place. Suggestion that it be removed? Isenseadiscrepancy (talk) 10:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Speak English if you want to be understood... what's an HDR?
 * The fellow was indicating that the photo was composited from numerous exposures through a process called High Dynamic Range imaging. He's right, in the sense that there's a weird halo around the crane that looks HDR-like; whether or not it's out of place is for others to judge, but that is what he meant by HDR.--Pl77 (talk) 05:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * However, the pic is fine, and a fine example of a common jib crane along recreational docks... whereas the write-up on Jib crane seems very underfed. Tower cranes are Jib crane's too, iirc. // Fra nkB 22:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Whistle communication
I am sitting in my office, and there are people with cranes doing work on another building, but they seem to be using whistles (like sport referees' whistles) to communicate. Could someone investigate that?

I Googled on "whistle coummnication crane", then on "whistle hoist". Here is what appears to be a California statue on hand-, electrical-, and audiable-hoist signals: http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/1605_21.html Subchapter 4. Construction Safety Orders Article 14. Construction Hoists §1605.21. Introduction.

"(c) Audible Signals.

Audible signals shall not be used when there are surrounding noises of the same, or nearly the same, frequency and octave level. Signals given by means of a whistle, bell, horn, or other audible means are as follows:

(1) Hoist: Two short blasts or gongs.

(2) Lower: Three short blasts or gongs.

(3) Slow: Four long blasts or gongs.

(4) Stop: One short blast or gong.

(5) Emergency Stop: Series of short blasts or gongs.

(6) Dog Off Load: One long blast or gong. "
 * While you're next to the scene, you're asking us to Google? The virtual world is catching up way too fast for me. BoH 01:00, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

That is interesting way to signal the operator. Don't know if I would like that. I operate a TM9100 Grove(100 ton) here in Hutch, KS. Alot of times at the salt mines and elevators I am unable to see what I'm hoisting so we use radios. The whistles would, IMO, take a lot to get used to. And if you can see your load and those you're working for, nothing beats hand signals. I would be interested to hear from operators that use or have used the whistle method.RaiderfanaticDennis RyanRaiderfanatic


 * I'm only a little over a year late on this, but most likely what the whistle is, is warning other construction workers and vehicles that there is a lift being made and/or a lift overhead. Spigot  Map  02:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm only a little over three years late on this. I operate a crane in Toronto Canada, one person uses a whistle, but only to get your attention, not for signalling the crane. May 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.54.208.210 (talk) 13:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Cable cranes
I am missing the cable crane. May be there is another word for cable crane in english therfore please have a look at Kabelkran or at Wikimedia

de:User:Ronaldo --87.176.74.29 (talk) 16:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm largely unfamiliar with them, but have seen them used for tasks like dam construction and slate quarrying (where they were called aerial ropeways or "blondins", after tha famous tightrope walker). The de: site auto-translates thus: Andy Dingley (talk) 17:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * A cableway consists of two masts or towers, whose points are connected to one or more carrying ropes (usually from steel) with. On each carrying rope is a displaceable trolley, at whose stroke-hurry the load one attaches, one lifts and one lowers. With a hauling cable the trolley can be moved horizontal. The masts can be if necessary even displaceable and/or tiltable and thus the catchment area of the plant extend. Cable crane are used with spans up to over 1000 meters. A typical Anwendungsbebiet for this is the building of concrete dams. The carrying capacity the assigned cable crane amounts to frequently 20 t and more. For dockyards the masts of the cableway plants were often implemented as being certain portals with several parallel carrying ropes between the portal crossbars over the mounting jig. Cableways find also with the wood back application.

Old Comments
Could someone add a section on how steam cranes work and where the largest ones are and what there lifting capacity is?

Could someone explain how cranes harness mechanical advantage?


 * A crane is a collection of simple machines, including inclined plane, wheel and axle, lever, pulley, wedge and screw. Perhaps someone will expand this article to explain how cranes work. Meanwhile, see mechanical advantage for more information. --Heron 18:31, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I must admit I fail to see how a crane applies a lever to gain mechanical advantage. On the contrary, cranes using levers invariably do so to transform (small movement, large force) to (large movement, small force), for instance tower cranes (counter weight), loading cranes (jib movement), harbour cranes (same), etc.  If no example of a crane in common use that uses the inverse movement, I propose rewording or removing the section on levers. Pietrow ☏ 14:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Treadwheel crane
The treadwheel crane article was created yesterday. Assistance with improving and expanding the article is welcomed. Mjroots (talk) 08:14, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Medieval controllable gantry crane
Having seen the movie "Evan Almighty", I came to the idea that controllable (where the boom itself may be hightened, rotated or lowered) cranes probably existed in the middle ages too. When combined with the medieval gantry crane (or by simply adding wheels), I'm also guessing that this type of crane could perhaps exist in movable variants aswell.

Please mention the controllable medieval crane in the article, and perhaps take a look for the movable variants aswell see http://chrisdaniels.co.uk/custom/medieval%20crane1.JPG, http://www.tfguild.org/confs/confeast2006/daily.html and http://lostbiro.com/blog/?p=1155 for the movable, controllable medieval crane. Also add image.

The mentioning of these cranes is particularly important as they have still practical use in developing countries (self-buildable, locally constructable, low-tech) Thanks, KVDP


 * The first and third link are examples of treadwheel cranes. Mjroots (talk) 08:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Crane Range
Dear All,

Can any one tell me in brief that what is difference in crane range and radius?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.167.159.113 (talk) 14:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Renaissance
In the renaissance section, the steam crane isn't well discussed. Also, perhaps some actual examples can be put forward, ie "Edwardian farm crane (http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=556344 )" not sure what type this is, the oriental cranes in Anno_1404, ... 91.182.132.54 (talk) 13:13, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Recent multitude of crane collapses
An important point about cranes is the danger of a collapse, which has become far more frequent in recent years. I feel that this crane page should absolutely contain references to the multitude of collapses occuring. Perhaps a link or two to external discussion by experts as to why these events are happening more and more. Is the ground shaking more, are these cranes getting too old, are contractors pushing them beyond their limits, or is it something else? 24.231.184.114 (talk) 20:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd go further - how about a whole article on crane collapses? A well-done article on that topic could be a gem. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:14, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the agreement, AD. Unfortunately, even if Wikipedia has an article on the dangers and/or collapses, more people will still perish from crane accidents. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hOYullddVfHq7V5VcNUyRWZkSuzwD928CTBO1 "There have been several deadly crane accidents around the country this year, including one in Houston this month that killed four workers and injured seven. Crane-related deaths have also occurred in New York, Miami and Las Vegas. Texas led the nation with 26 crane-related fatalities in 2005 and 2006, according to federal statistics. Cranes in Texas operate without any state or local oversight, leaving that job to federal regulators." Hello Wikipedia... see the noteworthiness? - http://news.google.com/news?&q=crane+accident 24.247.170.144 (talk) 13:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * And another collapse, if anyone is starting a collection BBC news, Liverpool, Jan 2007 Andy Dingley (talk) 11:53, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

If there are more crane collapses it is probably because there are more cranes in service. I would suspect that as a ratio of crane collapses / working cranes there has actually been a reduction. There will also be more apparent collapses because these things are more widely reported. TheHamburger (talk) 07:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I do safety inspections on cranes for a living, and I suspect that the trend of reducing "indirect labor" (by cutting the number of maintenance personel) and retaining older equipment as a cost-saving measures could be playing an increasing role in crane collapses. In the past several years, I have noticed an increase in critical defects not being repaired from one year to the next or being improperly repaired, as well as an increase in companies relying exclusively on the annual third-party inspections to identify defects and reducing or eliminating their preventive maintenance activities such as providing regualar lubrication. Some have even reduced the annual to a bi-annual event. Brem1964 (talk) 01:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Article is too long, covers too much
I think the article is way too long and tries to cover too much. More material should be moved to the articles about specific cranes. It's too much to have a long history section, and then cover in detail the many types of cranes.

Maybe this article should be called "History of cranes" or something similar.

KennethSides (talk) 16:52, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of kitchen crane
This section has twice been deleted, undiscussed, by User talk:Gun Powder Ma. Reasons given were:
 * no cranes in real sense, since they provided no mechanical advantage due to lack of pulley system
 * (replied to with:) 1. Historical use of term. 2. Not all cranes use pulleys (shadoof) 3. re-arrange below Roman cranes maybe?)
 * see lead for def. (simple machines to create mechanical advantage"); shaduf btw is a lever, not a crane (the rope retains the same length throughout the whole lifting process)

Let us accept that the lead def. is correct as, "simple machines to create mechanical advantage".

The editor seems confused as to whether a "simple machine" requires a rope & pulley. It doesn't: a lever is adequate, as the shadoof and the larger kitchen cranes demonstrate. Certainly levers can provide mechanical advantage!

Secondly, I'd regard the kitchen crane as important in the etymology of the name "crane", and their inclusion here would be justified on that basis alone.

Comments, please? Andy Dingley (talk) 14:56, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The lead defines a crane as a "simple machine to create mechanical advantage". Since the kitchen crane, devoid of any pulleys, provides no mechanical advantage, it is thus no crane. You then called the shadouf an example of a crane, but it is no crane, either, since it a) lacks a pulley, too, and b) contrary to the crane, the length of the rope remains the same throughout the whole lifting process. Rather, a shadouf works as a lever, but levers aren't cranes. Hence, both kitchen lifting devices and shadoufs should be excluded from the article per Scope. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 15:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Why is a lever, as a shadoof, not a "simple machine to create mechanical advantage"?
 * Why does a crane require pulleys, to the exclusion of all other mechanisms? Would you also exclude hydraulic cranes on that basis? Andy Dingley (talk) 15:18, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * A lever creates mechanical advantage, too, but it is obviously no crane. I believe we all can agree on that, so I don't know what the whole shadouf thing is about anyway. As for the necessity of the pulleys, I am arguing from a historical basis: until the 18th/19th century, that is for 2 millenia, the only crane type was the compound pulley crane. The kitchen crane featured none. Hence including it would mean to commit an anachronism. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 19:06, 8 October 2009 (UTC)


 * We certainly can not agree that "all cranes require pulleys", which is your seeming implication that cranes based on leverage are somehow not cranes! Andy Dingley (talk) 20:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

The historical ones which formed our understanding of cranes did and it is now up to you to show that kitchen 'cranes' nonetheless should be regarded as cranes. I would like to see some positive evidence of yours that kitchen 'cranes' are cranes. Why not provide a definition from a scholarly source? Gun Powder Ma (talk) 10:53, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "historical ones which formed our understanding of cranes did " - if you justify the development of "crane" by first selecting out a sub-group, then yes, that sub-group will indeed support the view that all examples were from that sub-group! Your view that "all cranes require pulleys" is simply arbitrary, subjective and false. "Simple machines", as described here, certainly includes both levers and screw threads, both of which have been used in kitchen cranes to provide lift.


 * A kitchen crane is a crane because:
 * It's termed a "crane"
 * It carries out the function of a crane, i.e. lifting objects
 * It meets this article's definition as a, "simple machine to create mechanical advantage".
 * It is described as crane by suitable WP:RS. I think they're probably described in Ayres' "British Domestic Interiors", they're certainly in Lindsay's "Iron & Brass Implements of the English House" (probably the canonical reference on the topic) and they're described as "cranes" therein. Some of those described in Lindsay have four separate actions (slew, luff, hoist and tilting of a pot or kettle), controlled by levers or threaded bars.


 * Can you provide one WP:RS, other than yourself, to support this claim that "all cranes require pulleys"? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Its patently obvious that a crane does not require pulleys as shown by the loader/knuckleboom crane which has neither pulleys or ropes and interestingly does not apply mechanical advantage either. This does bring into question the opening descrition which is in need of a re-write. I think a much more simple description is called for such as : A crane is any mechanical lifting device that suspends the load.--TheHamburger (talk) 03:28, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Lifting capacities
I'm looking for lifting capacity ranges of the different technologies used for lifting. This article doesn't seem to provide this information. It would be nice to have a graphic table present this information. __meco (talk) 21:56, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Double Picture
The same picture and caption is posted twice. I have no idea how to remove it.65.188.249.211 (talk) 13:17, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Bird
Was the bird named after the machine, or the machine after the bird? Drutt (talk) 14:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems the machine was named for the bird. Crane at etymonline.com (Could probably use a better source.) 71.63.69.193 (talk) 20:22, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Crane (machine). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120608231418/http://www.mtc.ca.gov/news/info/movies/sas_erection.htm to http://www.mtc.ca.gov/news/info/movies/sas_erection.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

File:AltairConstruction-December2015-04.JPG
Does anyone know what type of a crane this is? Or is it one of those custom-made machineries? Reh man  07:26, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not really a crane, it's a concrete pump. As such, they require complex positioning, but only light weight handling (they might move a lot of concrete in a day, but they don't need to lift it all at once). As a result, their designs are based more on multiple hinged arms, less on linear trolley tracks or single heavily-braced jibs. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:25, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Andy, nice to meet you again. The "pump" is actually on a structure that resembles a tower crane... Here's a zoomed out picture. I'm just wondering on how to categorize it, because I cannot find a similar pump (on Wikimedia) that looks like this one... Reh  man  11:49, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * There's need for a new category or two: "Concrete pump cranes" and "Concrete pump tower cranes". These things exist and are notable, they're distinct within concrete pumps overall. Most of them are truck mounted and smaller, the tower crane type is just for really big jobs.
 * It would be worth checking industry sources first though to see if they already have a specific name. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:39, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Will look into it. Thanks for the replies :) Reh  man  23:49, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Its actually whats commonly called a placing boom. The concrete pump will be on the groundand pumps the liquid concrete through a pipe to be distributed by the placing boom.TheHamburger (talk) 16:59, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Crane (machine). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121001080528/http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2009/November/theuae_November338.xml&section=theuae&col= to http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/theuae/2009/November/theuae_November338.xml&section=theuae&col=

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:47, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Crane (machine). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140110235111/http://www.machine-history.com/Armstrong%20Hydraulic%20Crane to http://www.machine-history.com/Armstrong%20Hydraulic%20Crane
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120627015719/http://www.86towercrane.com/article_4.htm to http://www.86towercrane.com/article_4.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data%2Ftheuae%2F2009%2FNovember%2Ftheuae_November338.xml&section=theuae&col=
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130322045427/http://www.cargotec.com/en-global/hiab/products/Loader-cranes/Pages/default.aspx to http://www.cargotec.com/en-global/hiab/products/Loader-cranes/Pages/default.aspx

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 04:43, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Diagram of a modern mobile crane with outriggers.
The rest of the caption is "The latticed boom is fitted with a gib" - but the annotated diagram uses "jib". Why the inconsistency? A quick scan of the text of the article shows that "jib" is used consistently. Prisoner of Zenda (talk) 08:22, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Gib Andy Dingley (talk) 09:08, 15 August 2017 (UTC)