Talk:Crazy 8s (band)/Archive 1

Pov
The article should be changed to not sound like a fan's text. --Abu Badali 18:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I look forward to your productive contributions! I have begun the clean-up... grab a mop and hop in!  Jenolen 23:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I have no knowledge of the subject. And the fact that I still don't have even after reading the entire articls was one of the reasons I asked for the changes. --Abu Badali 01:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm... your edits to this page are not improving it at all! I'm going to, once again, assume good faith on your part, and hope that the reason you are being so very, very strict on this obscure Wikipedia article is because you have a genuine desire to improve the article... and not because, gasp!, it was created by someone you have a separate disagreement with.  Because, you know, that would be pretty petty, and very un-Wikipedialike.  In fact, you've taken what was a pretty good starter article on a regional band, and destroyed it with your edits.  This, too, is contrary to the Wikipedia spirit of cooperation and consensus.  But, I know you would never operate in a way that is contrary to that.  So, I guess I'm puzzled by your actions here.  Oh well... it was a good article, for a while.  Thanks for your "help"!  Jenolen 03:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Trying again
Ok, since the fact tags weren't well accepted, I'm listing here what do I think is still wrong with this article. Please, take this in good faith. I don't think this article is irreversibly damaged nor specially bad. But there's no reason to ignore the amount of unsourced statements that are compromising the credibility of this article:


 * General unsourced statements:
 * "...founded ... in 1982" - unsourced
 * "opened for The Clash, Violent Femmes..."
 * "played with Red Hot Chili Peppers..."


 * All sales numbers and charts positions need a verifiable source:
 * "Their first album, ... sold 6,000 copies in its first week"
 * "...finally totalling 11,000 unit"
 * "...which sold a total of over 100,000 units."
 * "...received a top score of four stars..."
 * "...one of the top 10 bands playing on college radio..."


 * Things that should be easy to source:
 * "They were selected to appear on Star Search as a novelty rock band..."
 * "...they were reviewed by TV Guide..."
 * "They were featured in the September 26, 1985 issue of Rolling Stone...""


 * Other problems
 * "...won the band many fans." - weasel words
 * "The group gained recognition mainly through airing on college radio, specifically KBVR FM" - More than one problem here:
 * "gained recognition" needs to be sourced, and
 * explaining how the band gained recognition is original research.

Best regards, --Abu Badali 22:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, starting with the easy one on the bottom first, a band "gains recognition" through touring, recording, and airplay. I think that's not original research. It's sort of like explaining how Television Shows get in to your house. I mean, that requires "original research," too, but you don't see every TV article deleted. Similarly, the traditional, pre-MySpace ways of breaking a band were probably quite common enough -- do "meet and greets" in every town you play, go to local record stores for free signings, play every gig you can get, every frat house dance, every local brew pub, every regional "Mardi Gras" until people are buying enough of your T-shirts and CD's to pay the band/quit your dayjob/buy a WV Bus and tour full time. You know, or something like that...

Jenolen   speak it!  11:31, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe it need to be stated with some other words (or maybe it's just me), but the way it is worded right now sounds like the text is claiming the band "became famous", what's something to be sourced. The original research I was referring to was the part seems to try to explain where this recognition/fame came from: "mainly through airing on college radio, specifically KBVR FM".
 * By the way, are you somehow involved with this KBVR? You once said you were involved with college radios. Although this would mean you have a lot to contribute here, you should be careful to not overstate the importance of entities you may be emotionally involved with. --Abu Badali 11:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there still some interests in fixing this article? --Abu Badali 21:54, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Two things. One, I have no connection with KBVR.  As it says on my user page, I was involved at KCPR.  Secondly, I'm sure that at some point, there will be interest, by someone, in "fixing" this article.  Most articles go through fits and spurts.  I'm glad its here for the next time an editor, with knowledge of the subject, wants to improve it.  Also, I've sent an e-mail to the company that bought the Gavin Report, to find out what happened to their chart information; no response yet, 'cause, you know, it's the holidays, and they probably have much better things to do than answer Wikipedia editor queries.  (A surprisingly low priority in most of the "regular" world...)  So yes... I'm sure there is still "some interest"...
 * Jenolen   speak it!  23:01, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Great. About the chart numbers, can't you simply cite the source you used when you wrote the article? Isn't it reliable? --Abu Badali 16:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Some comments on the original sources
Hi, I was summoned here by Jenolen to testify about sources for the original version of this article... or something :) Here's the story - I'm a former student of Valley Catholic School, where one of the former members of The Crazy 8's is currently employed as a band teacher/conductor. One day I was giving him a demonstration/tour of Wikipedia, and, seeing that there was no article about his former band, and knowing that they were notable enough to have one, I asked him if he could rustle up some old newspaper clippings, etc. so we could build an article of some sort. And so it was that during one class period we threw together what would eventually become this article. Since we were sort of in a hurry, we didn't cite everything in a references section, though there are a few references in the text, such as the September 26 1985 issue of Rolling Stone magazine, an undated clipping from TV Guide, etc. Since I left to go to college this fall, though, the photocopies I had of the sources are half a world away at the moment.

So in conclusion, this article was written based on print sources and consultation with a former member of the band (primary resources). I'm afraid I can't help much with this article at this point, but I'm sure Dan Schauffler would be more than happy to help you out - his contact info can be found at the Valley Catholic staff directory under "Fine Arts" (I believe it's against policy to directly post the information on Wikipedia). Good luck! &mdash; flamingspinach | (talk) 06:23, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Great! I've contacted him. I hope he can help us. Thanks. --Abu Badali 14:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)