Talk:Crazy Legs (dancer)

Please add a redirect
Lil Crazy Legs as per ~ender 2008-04-06 10:32:AM MST
 * Sad news! The website story is in error on this point though. Lil Crazy Legs was an apprentice of Crazy Legs, the latter clearly being the acclaimed dancer the piece means to refer to (Lil Crazy Legs is mentioned in this article— see "Career" 1st paragraph. You can also see both, briefly, in Style Wars.) 86.44.28.245 (talk) 09:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
(moved out of my palk page - Laudak (talk) 23:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC))

Please undo your redirects pending discussion. Your move of Crazy Legs to Richard "Crazy Legs" Colón is in conflict with our "common name" guideline (it's not a mere nickname in this instance), and your redirect of Crazy Legs to a disamb at Crazylegs is also unsupportable without discussion, I feel. Please undo. 86.44.21.238 (talk) 00:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry colleague, Richard Colon is not the first and not the most famous "crazy legs" Laudak (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Undo your moves pending discussion. 86.44.21.238 (talk) 17:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see any discussion. Laudak (talk) 17:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hence pending. You made your moves. I disagree with them. As I cannot simply move things back, you can consider yourself reverted. Please refrain from insulting me in edit summaries. Undo your moves and redirects at Crazy Legs and open a discussion on that talk page if you wish to continue. Thanks. 86.44.21.238 (talk) 18:01, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Disagreed as explained. Laudak (talk) 18:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's fine that you disagree. Perhaps other people will also disagree, or we can work something out. The point is that by not undoing your moves, you are now in effect edit-warring. Undo your moves, we can have this discussion, and this will be resolved your way, my way, or some way that pleases us both. 86.44.21.238 (talk) 18:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

If you prove that this is his official name, rather than a stage name, then I may agree with you. Otherwise, sorry again, you did not convincingly demonstrate that he has an advantage over other numerous Crazy Legs. By the way, because the redirects were edited, only administrator can undo the move. And you are not allowed to move pages by cut and paste. Laudak (talk) 18:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll get an admin to look at it in a while, after we've talked some more. Maybe tomorrow. My point was that "Crazy Legs" is his WP:COMMONNAME, i.e. it is what he is known as. It is not a mere nickname as with Elroy "Crazylegs" Hirsch, for instance. Therefore to me it seems clear he does have a clear "advantage" over them. The current name for our article—Richard "Crazy Legs" Colón— implies that it is a mere nickname in just this way. Have a look at the usage in the NYT article to get a feel for what I mean here. 86.44.21.238 (talk) 19:49, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "Crazy Legs" is a nickname / stage name, and Crazylegs Hirsch was "Crazylegs" just as Edison Arantes do Nascimento was Pelé. You felt assaulted when in edit comment I wrote that you know little. You should not be. We all know little. I am sure that you are a hip hop fan and convinced that there is the one and only Crazy Legs. At the same time, football fans will strongly disagree with you. Also it seems that you did not read [WP:COMMONNAME]] completely and carefully. It has section "Do not overdo it". Laudak (talk) 23:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I am sure that you are a hip hop fan and convinced that there is the one and only Crazy Legs — The other possibility is that I'm simply trying to do the best thing for the encyclopedia.


 * "Crazylegs" Hirsch was, at a stretch, "Crazylegs" Hirsch. He signed his name as Crazylegs Hirsch. We have a page here called Crazy Legs. We have a person called Crazy Legs. You have already been pointed to an NYT article that mentions his birth name strictly in passing, the very definition of a passing mention. Compare to treatments of Hirsch in the NYT, even given the often informal style of sports journalism. By contrast, the birth name of Crazy Legs, when it is given, is given only out of a sense of journalistic completeness.


 * Consider treatment in the reliable sources below:


 * 1) ^ Sally Banes, "Physical Graffiti: Breaking Is Hard to Do", Village Voice, April 23, 1981. Crazy Legs,  no quote marks around it, no birth name given
 * 2) ^ Barbara Crossette, "A Three-Day Celebration of Bronx Folk Culture", New York Times, May 15, 1981. Crazy Legs,  no quote marks around it, no birth name given
 * 3) ^ David Hershkovits, "London Rocks, Paris Burns and the B-Boys Break a Leg", Sunday News Magazine, April 3, 1983. Crazy Legs,  no quote marks around it, no birth name given
 * 4) ^ Jennifer Dunning, "Street Dance Moves Up to Mainstream", New York Times, November 22, 1991. Both names given, no quote marks
 * 5) Jennifer Dunning, " Nurturing Onstage the Moves Born on the Ghettos' Streets", New York Times, November 26, 1991.  Both names given, no quote marks
 * 6) ^ Stephen Holden, " Festival Featuring Hip-Hop Dancing", New York Times, July 10, 1992.  Both names given, no quote marks
 * 7) Jennifer Dunning, "Mo' Moves, Alice Tully Hall", New York Times, July 13, 1992.  Both names given, no quote marks
 * 8) ^ Jon Pareles, "Hip-Hop in All Forms, But Mainly the Dance", New York Times, November 18, 1995. Crazy Legs,  no quote marks around it, no birth name given
 * 9) ^ Laurel Graeber, "Family Fare", New York Times, July 30, 1999. Crazy Legs,  no quote marks around it, no birth name given
 * 10) ^ Ben Sisario, "Smithsonian's Doors Open to a Hip-Hop Beat", New York Times, March 1, 2006. Crazy Legs,  no quote marks around it, no birth name given

There are also his movie credits (compare Hirsch's)


 * Can you now allow that this is not an argument from a position of ignorant partisanship, and that putting this Crazy Legs under our article title Crazy Legs, with a hatnote directing readers to a disamb for other people and things, is best practice? 86.44.27.87 (talk) 15:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Your argument is irrelevant. The name "Crazy Legs" is not exclusively assigned to Richard, even though he chose to exclusively use it. It was used by others way before he was born. By the same logic Madonna or Prince fans may demand that the articles titled Madonna and Prince must be about these wildly popular entertainers who go exclusively by Madonna and Prince, and most don't know who the heck Louise Veronica Ciccone Ritchie is. BTW, If anybody, Hirsch proved that he "owns" the name "Crazy Legs" when he successfully sued a women's leg cream company who attempted to use this name for their product! :-) Laudak (talk) 19:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Do you object to an admin moving the article and history back to Crazy Legs until consensus emerges for your move? 86.44.27.87 (talk) 20:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Or, here is a compromise for you: make Crazy Legs rather than Crazylegs the disamb page, and title this article Crazy Legs (dancer). I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that for your above analogy to hold true, Madonna (entertainer) would have to presently be at Louise "Madonna" Veronica Ciccone Ritchie (and Hirsch an everyday word or object of the religious veneration of millions). 86.44.27.87 (talk) 20:50, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Last month Crazy Legs, complete with hatnote directing people to Elroy Hirsch, got three times as many hits as Elroy Hirsch did, FYI. 86.44.27.87 (talk) 21:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * How do you know that? Laudak (talk) 19:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This should have been discussed before it was moved. Crazy Legs most commonly refers to the break-dancer not the football player. I'd prefer this page be moved back to just plain "Crazy Legs" but I would accept the above compromise. ~ Eóin (talk) 03:46, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "Most commonly" - not by wide margin. "crazy legs" + football gives 35,000 hits, "crazy legs" + dancer gives 42,000 hits. Although I know that google test is not reliable, but it gives a rough idea. And given the amount of buzz pumped into the breakdancer promo, I'd say that he and Hirsch are on par as to "commonly refers". Laudak (talk) 19:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree to go with Crazy Legs (dancer), which is similar to Madonna and Prince cases. Laudak (talk) 19:29, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * WP traffic stats are here:, . "crazy legs" + "hip hop" @ google = 155,000. the amount of buzz pumped into the breakdancer promo is close to insulting both the subject and the article. He's a historic figure and something of a folk hero, live with it. 86.44.27.87 (talk) 22:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Like I said, google stats are not reliable for fine distinction and not consistent. Today I have "crazy legs" +"hip hop" 64,000 hits and "crazy legs" +"football" 60,000 hits. It would have made for good judgment if +hip were, like, xx,000 hits, and +football were like 327 hits. As to your "close to insulting" beg to disagree. buzz/promo is an inherent part of artists' life. Without buzz you don't make money. So big amount of buzz is in fact congratulation not insult. As for "folk hero", Hirsch is just the same folk hero, only for other people. Laudak (talk) 21:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In future, discuss your moves, and certainly don't start editing an article directly after moving it. Not impressed with your editing here. 86.44.27.87 (talk) 22:21, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Now, now. Tone down, buddy and get real. I will most certainly do what I see (or legitimately proven) right. Laudak (talk) 21:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Today I have "crazy legs" +"hip hop" 64,000 hits I doubt that. In any case, this conversation is over and we now have to wait for an admin to clean it up to a position not even as useful to readers than the original positions. I don't really know how much evidence needs to be presented or or how many editors need to be critical of your actions before you begin to see anything wrong with them. 86.44.27.87 (talk) 00:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I find highly arrogant your insistence that I did something bad or wrong and you know better what's good for wikipedia. Usages of hiphop fans are not better than usages of football fans. Laudak (talk) 22:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

descent
Crazy Legs is included into Category:Puerto Rican-Americans, which implies that both his parents are puertoricans, unlike Category:Americans of Puerto Rican descent. Is there any reference for this? Per WP:LIVING, all biographic facts must be carefully referenced. `'Míkka>t 23:01, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no information on his parents, except that Tricia Rose says in Black Noise that he was the child of a single mother. It's unlikely to be contentious in terms of the subject whether he is in Category:Puerto Rican-Americans or Category:Americans of Puerto Rican descent, wouldn't you say? He is referred to as Puerto-Rican in the literature and self-identifies as Puerto-Rican. It may be contentious to editors however (there has already been a little edit war over the Nationality portion of the infobox). Personally I don't see it as an urgent BLP issue, or even particularly important, tbh., but if I find out, I'll amend the cat accordingly. Thanks for the moves, btw. 86.44.26.152 (talk) 03:36, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Harassment allegations
Archived discussion of inclusion of the harassment allegations is at Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:44, 22 June 2021 (UTC)