Talk:Cream (band)/Archive 2

Source
Link moved from EL section as WP:EL guides against its use in the EL section. Any useful information should be included in the body of the article and the link used as a reference source.  SilkTork  *YES! 22:44, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Wayback Archive link  SilkTork  *YES! 22:53, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

"Clapton [...] was all but unknown in the United States" is untrue.
This statement of Unterberger's is simply untrue. Clapton was very well known, indeed, to any kid trying to play guitar in the U.S. in 1966. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.87.15.60 (talk) 21:37, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I think it is fair to say that Clapton was not "very well known" in the US in 1966. Jeff Beck, yes, due to having toured the US with The Yardbirds on four occasions in 1965 and 1966 and appearing on several US TV shows, but not Clapton. The seminal Beano album featuring Eric Clapton was released in England on July 22, 1966, and was not officially released in the US until much later. I think it is safe to assume Eric Clapton's name was not "well known" in the US until early 1967 the earliest. Rocknrollauthor (talk) 17:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I would concur with the above assessment. I remember reading about Clapton and Hendrix in Eye Magazine in 1967 as being contemporaries in England seemingly vying for the title of best guitarist. The whole "Clapton is God" graffiti push pitted against Hendrix's pyrotechnic guitar playing was, at that time (67), largely unknown in the US. There were certainly rumblings in the US, but only to those who were extremely dedicated to keeping up with the state of guitar playing at that time. To the casual, less dedicated player both were not yet well known. For me, in particular, I noticed huge jump for both players in 1968.THX1136 (talk) 16:07, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Copyright violation or mirror from Wikipedia?
In looking for sources for Jack Bruce, I found the following website, and it is nearly word for word the same as in this online publication about him. I realize it may affect this article, so I'm placing it in both places. Here. I really do believe this one is a copy/paste thing at some point. You must scroll down 2/3 of the way down on that page and look for the section on Jack Bruce.
 * Lulu Rock History --Leahtwosaints (talk) 03:49, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * It's a mirror of this site...

1943 – Jack Bruce of Cream with Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker is born this day in rock history!

From Wikipedia

John Symon Asher “Jack” Bruce (born 14 May 1943) is a Scottish-born musician, composer and singer.[...]
 * Catfish Jim and the soapdish (talk) 21:30, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Lead
I've expanded this as it consisted of one word - Cream. To many that may say everything that needs to be said, but for those unfamiliar with this group, a little more information would be needed. I've expanded it to say that Cream was a rock group of the 1960s featuring Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker. We need a bit more though. TheRetroGuy (talk) 10:50, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I restored the lead that an anonymous IP deleted. -- Cubs Fan   (Talk to me)  18:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Cool, I'll add this to my watchlist in case it happens again. TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:35, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Reference for notability for the second album cover
Not sure if this applies here or just on Disraeli Gears, but here's a good reference needs to be used: from Rolling Stone magazine. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 02:36, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Cream first supergroup
According to Clapton's bio on his website, EricClapton.com, the first supergroup would be Blind Faith, unless everything with Eric Clapton as a member is retroactively a supergroup. Bio .... http://www.ericclapton.com/eric-clapton-biography?page=0%2C1 Cream was a groundbreaking group that changed rock's journey. All 3 have had excellent careers but at the time each was still at the beginning of a solo career. RaqiwasSushi (talk) 00:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)


 * It may be that the author was referring to the regard all 3 of the members had in Great Britain at that time. While it would be accurate to say Bruce, Baker and Clapton would not have been regarded highly in the US, in England they would have been appropriately considered a supergroup.THX1136 (talk) 16:13, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a term so vague as "supergroup." None the less, I distinctly remember Cream being described as a group composed of three of England's best rock musicians (at least, by the disk jockeys at KMPX.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.251.85.69 (talk) 02:26, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

In August 1967, Cream played their first headlining dates in America, playing at the Fillmore West in San Francisco
I believe it was NOT the Fillmore West, but was the Fillmore Auditorium. The "Fillmore West" was the name given to the carousel Ballroom once Graham leased it. Fillmore West did not open until 7/68. 74.93.101.86 (talk) 23:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

... and Terry Kath of Chicago ... wah-wah pedal
With no disrespect to Terry Kath, I feel it is wrong to include only his name in the sentence that says "Cream made a significant impact ..., and, along with Jimi Hendrix, and Terry Kath of Chicago, popularised the use of the wah-wah pedal." There were other guitar players who were more known for popularizing the way-wah than Kath at that time. I suggest to just remove Kath and keep Hendrix's name. Rocknrollauthor (talk) 17:36, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I would be inclined to agree. To include Kath, who was a good player in his own right, one would need to include others as well. Steve Stills is another that comes to mind. Along with Hendrix, Stills was a big influence on me with his playing on Kooper's Supersession album, specifically the tune "Season of the Witch". If no one is opposed Kath should be removed. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 16:19, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


 * As no one was made further comment I did the edit on this subject.THX1136 (talk) 14:58, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Toad first "drum solo in rock"??
While this may be accurate I'm certain it could be challenged as to it's truth. The drumming in "Wipe Out", while perhaps not a drum solo technically, it is certainly the focus of the song. It seems a citation for this claim would be appropriate. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 16:30, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Past members
It seems odd that the band members are listed as past members. There were no members before or after them as they were with the band from the beginning until it broke up. By this logic, all members of defunct bands would be listed as past members which is not the current practice. The problem may be the two categories - current_members which returns "members" and past_members which returns "past members". The last four Beatles are listed as current_members, which they are obviously not, to distinguish them from former members. Should current_members be used to denote the last members of a defunct band like the Beatles or should past_members be used to denote all the members of defunct bands? Sandcherry (talk) 04:07, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It is my understanding that it in fact is current practice to list all members of defunct bands as past members, in accordance with these guidelines, and in the Beatles' case, an exception was made because it was thought to be important to distinguish them from other past members, as the 4 were the only "important" Beatles. In the case of this article, there's no reason not to follow the guidelines, because the band only ever had 3 members. However, for the same reason, it doesn't matter too much whether their displayed as "members" or "past members", so I'll revert my edit if you still think I should.-- MA SHAUN IX 09:39, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link to the guideline and offer to revert. A quick check found examples beside the Beatles not following the guideline including Nirvana, Kingston Trio, Peter, Paul and Mary, and (my favorite) Banjo Dan and the Mid-nite Plowboys.  I think bands like Cream and Blind Faith should list members instead of past members; however, until the guideline is modified, the change would probably generate more controversy (like in the Beatles' case) than the change merits. Cheers! Sandcherry (talk) 03:42, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * To be honest I don't really like the guideline (because I think it's often good to separate final lineups from other past members), but in this article, I don't think it matters at all.-- MA SHAUN IX 09:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

"Being a fan of Clapton's music, Hendrix..."
I think there should be a reference for this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.105.206.219 (talk) 17:39, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Cubs Fan   (Talk to me)  21:37, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Why are they classed as a supergroup?
According to the respective Wikipedia article, a supergroup is a "music group whose members are already successful as solo artists or as part of other groups or well known in other musical professions". Eric Clapton was famous at the time for being in the Yardbirds and Bruce was reasonably famous for being in Manfred Mann, but Baker was hardly very successful prior to Cream. Therefore Cream's status as a supergroup is very doubtful. 37.203.157.230 (talk) 23:55, 11 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Baker and Bruce were both in Blues Incorporated and the Graham Bond Organisation, which were big names in 1960s Britain. Yes, they were both well known before Cream.  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  07:23, 12 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Doesn't say anywhere on the pages for either of those bands that they were big names in 1960s Britain. And they didn't get any hits for example. 37.203.144.141 (talk) 14:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I'll assume you're not pulling my leg here and give you the quote from the Melody Maker from 11 June 1966, which broke the news of Cream to the public:
 * A sensational new 'groups' group' starring Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker is being formed. Top groups will be losing star instrumentalists as a result.
 * Manfred Mann will lose bassist, harmonica player, pianist and singer Jack Bruce; John Mayall will lose brilliant blues guitarist Eric Clapton; and Graham Bond's Organisation will lose incredible drummer Ginger Baker.
 * The group say they hope to start playing at clubs, ballrooms and theatres in a month's time. It is expected they will remain as a trio with Jack as featured vocalist.
 *  Catfish  Jim  and the soapdish  18:55, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This discussion has a quality of presentism. It was widely understood at the time of the band's existence that there were possibly the first supergroup, before Crosby, Stills and Nash or Led Zeppelin. This term was used plenty in the US and UK music press in the late 1960s and early 1970s. People doubting the supergroup status should read the literature at the time.Dogru144 (talk) 23:20, 24 October 2016 (UTC)