Talk:Criminal cases against Yulia Tymoshenko since 2010

DYK nomination
Unfortunately failed. See here. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  22:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Preamble
1) It must be said that Tymoshenko is not just "one of the politicians of Ukraine", but she is "the leader of the opposition in Ukraine", the leader of the national-democratic forces (in the presidential election-2010 Tymoshenko gained 45%). This is very important because it shows that it is "a global problem of Ukraine".

2) The preamble should be given the facts in order of importance:
 * Opened a lot of criminal cases;
 * A criminal case for a dozen Ministers Tymoshenko;
 * The opinion of the EU, U.S., Russia, and international democratic organizations;
 * The opinion of the party of Yanukovych and his prosecution;
 * The opinion of Tymoshenko supporters;
 * Said that Tymoshenko convicted for one of these criminal cases (11.10.2011). And has been in prison since 08.05.2011.--Vles1 (talk) 17:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Trying to make it look like the criminal cases against Tymo and Second Tymoshenko Government Ministers are two sides of the same coin are wp:speculation; since prosecutors say these cases are not political. Unless there is some leaked secret document that says (per example) "Yanukovych and his prosecution will try to only get politicians in jail who are not of Yanukovych's party" we can not insert rumors in Wikipedia, just opinions. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:32, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

We need to give a brief "basic facts of criminal cases"
The article should be mentioned not only "policy evaluation of criminal cases," but you must specify: the main accusations from Yanukovich's party, the nature of criminal cases and the testimony of key witnesses. And since a lot of criminal cases, then the article would be big. --Vles1 (talk) 17:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmmmm... Wikipedia rules say: An encyclopedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details. If this article will be stuffed with details then nobody will read it (because it would take too much concentration away). Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an diary. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * But if there are "a dozen criminal cases", you have to say about each.--Vles1 (talk) 20:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

No you don't.... Wikipedia rules say: An encyclopedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  03:24, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Do not make any unverified information in the article - none of the Tymoshenko government is not accused of corruption (not accused of embezzlement), and accused of "abuse of power"
Dear, Julia Romero. You put false information - no member of the Tymoshenko government (and Tymoshenko herself) is not accused of corruption, embezzlement. All are accused of abuse of power, and these charges are ridiculous (for example, minister of police Lutsenko convicted of celebration of the Police Day!)

Do not make any unverified information in the article - none of the Tymoshenko government is not accused of corruption (not accused of embezzlement), and accused of "abuse of power".

Therefore, I am returning his formula :
 * A series of criminal cases has been opened against Ukrainian politician. In all those cases (concerning the activities of the Cabinet Tymoshenko in 2005, 2007-2010), the General Procurator´s Office does not charge Tymoshenko with «stealing or appropriating funds» (mainly, the cases are based on conviction in "abuse of power").--Vles1 (talk) 02:33, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * You hide list "a dozen convicts ministry" and argued that "there is no repression." And let the list - and you will see that there are political repression.
 * In this article about criminal cases Tymoshenko - no need to conceal information about Tymoshenko government ministers who sit in prison. No need to hide this information! :


 * These criminal cases were opened against officials from the second Tymoshenko Government (prosecutors have not accused them of corruption, or assignment of funds, but rather have accused them of abuse of power):

---
 * 1) Prime Minister – Tymoshenko
 * 2) Minister of Police – Yuriy Lutsenko
 * 3) Minister of Defence – Ivashchenko
 * 4) Minister of Finance – Danylyshyn
 * 5) Minister of Natural Resources – Filipchuk
 * 6) Deputy Minister of Justice – Korneichuk
 * 7) Head of Customs of Ukraine – Makarenko
 * 8) Head of the regional customs – Shepitko
 * 9) Head of the State Treasury of Ukraine – Slyuz; Deputy head – Gritsoun
 * 10) Deputy head of "Naftogaz" (state monopoly on trade in gas and oil) – Didenko
 * 11) Governor of Dnipropetrovsk region (former Minister of Transport) – Bondar
 * 12) Minister and former mayor of Lviv – Kuybida. Source: Minister and former mayor of Lviv – Kuybida
 * 13) First Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Turchynov – repeatedly summoned for questioning.--Vles1 (talk) 02:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I did not accuse them of corruption.... and I never argued that "there is no repression".... I am simply trying to write a good Wikipedia article... Stating the opinion of others is NPOV. It is Yanukovych that has stated "these cases were indiscriminately made to fight corruption in Ukraine"; I am not Yanukovych and readers of this article will not automatically agree with Yanukovych. And once again: An encyclopedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details. If this article will be stuffed with details then nobody will read it (because it will be to difficult to read). Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not an diary. And my Wikipedia Username: — Yulia Romero  •  Talk to me!  03:23, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Dear, Yulia Romero!
 * What's going on? In article about Tymoshenko (Criminal cases against Yulia Tymoshenko since 2010) you take away the most important part. You throw my edits that:
 * None of the government ministers Tymoshenko accused of corruption or embezzlement. They are accused of abuse of power.
 * Why did you throw away all the important facts:
 * in the presidential election-2010 Tymoshenko gained 45%.
 * In all those cases (concerning the activities of the Cabinet Tymoshenko in 2005, 2007-2010), the General Procurator´s Office does not charge Tymoshenko with «stealing or appropriating funds» (mainly, the cases are based on conviction in "abuse of power").
 * These criminal cases were opened against officials from the second Tymoshenko Government (prosecutors have not accused them of corruption, or assignment of funds, but rather have accused them of abuse of power): ...
 * During the period after 2005 and up to May, 2010 ( i.e. the years under President Yushchenko), no new claims against Yu. Tymoshenko were prosecuted.


 * You roll the section on the first case ("The first case. Resumption of the case of 2004 on an attempt to release father-in-law from imprisonment"). Why? Since this case began "Criminal cases against Yulia Tymoshenko since 2010". --Vles1 (talk) 09:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

My responces point per point: Because I think an outside look is required now I have taken this articl too Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:35, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * This article is about Tymoshenko only. You seem not to understand that I have simply try to put all opinions in the article. It is Yanukovych that has stated "these cases were indiscriminately made to fight corruption in Ukraine"; I am not Yanukovych and readers of this article will not automatically agree with Yanukovych. In the English speaking world "abuse of power" is a form of corruption.
 * The article aleady states Tymoshenko is on of Ukraine's most important politicians; stuffing this article with the detail in 2010 she got a lot of votes will make the article difficult to read and if people click to the article on Tymoshenko they will read in the lead she did get them 45%
 * The sources spoke of an part of the investigation of alleged tax evasion and theft of government funds
 * During the period after 2005 and up to May, 2010 ( i.e. the years under President Yushchenko), no new claims against Yu. Tymoshenko were prosecuted is not a notable event. What did not happen should not be mentioned it Wikipedia articles. If we start to mention all that did not happen we will get very strange Wikipedia articles.
 * I shortened the section on Bribing Supreme Court judges to make the article easier to read. Writing Wikipedia articles that are so complex that nobody would like to read them is a waste of space.
 * By the way: Tymo might have gained 45% of the votes in 2010; this poll shows her popularity rating is 10% these days. Writing in this article she got 45% of the votes in 2010 and then not mentioning that current popularity polls put her at 10% is misleading Wikipedia readers. Maybe in a second round of an Presidential election she again would score round 40%; but that might say more about the unpopularity of the other candidate then her own popularity and is WP:CRYSTALBALL. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:45, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * This rating from the unknown, false company. In particular, in October 2007 rating Tymoshenko 15%, but the actual election in October 2007 BYT-Tymoshenko gained 32% (Yanukovych - 34%, actually - 34%). October 2012 - 14%, real election in October 2012 Tymoshenko's party - 25%. This Yanukovskoe rating agency.


 * That's more or less reputable firms - Fund "Democratic Initiatives" and Razumkov Center. Rating from 28/12/2012 : Tymoshenko acknowledged the best prime minister of Ukraine 19% (Yanukovych - 11% Azarov - 2%).


 * Tymoshenko - the most popular Ukrainian politician in Russia, Yulia Tymoshenko is the most popular foreign policy in the Russian media.


 * Yulia Tymoshenko - the most popular politician in the blogosphere


 * According to Google Trends top most popular politicians Uanet looks like this: 1. Yulia Tymoshenko (34 points), 2. Viktor Yanukovych (22 points), 3. Vitali Klitschko (5 points), 4. Oleg Tyagnibok and Yatsenyuk (2 points).--Vles1 (talk) 23:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

And other questions you have not answered?--Vles1 (talk) 00:08, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * As far as I know I did answer all your questions.... I am interested in making compromise! Are you? If you are not interested in making compromises then please leave Wikipedia. Sociological group "RATING" is not an unknown, false company And it's ratings say nothing about Tymoshenko's party. Please comment on my main argument: If this article will be stuffed with details then nobody will read it (because it will be to difficult to read). —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  00:14, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

This is not a "small details": 1) 45% of Tymoshenko in the presidential elections in 2010. 2) The Minister Tymoshenko is not accused of corruption, but only in the abuse of power.--Vles1 (talk) 00:24, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That is not true: she is also suspect in the murder of Scherban. If you feel so strongly about it I will include that 45%; but sentences like: "mystically, exactly that day the funeral wreath fell down on President Yanukovich, at a meeting with Russian President Medvedev" do not belong in Wikipedia! —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  00:35, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, please add 45%.
 * Relatively Shcherban - look at this topic in Wikipedia Ukrainian (in article "Criminal cases against Yulia Tymoshenko since 2010"). Yanukovych left today from Davos - because European leaders did not want to meet him because Shcherban case (which is open January 18, 2013). Also Hillary Clinton today through Ambassador Tefft gave the letter to Tymoshenko.
 * Subject wreath is the most popular topic in the Ukraine. In YouTube watch this video, it scored a record number of hits.--Vles1 (talk) 01:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

✅ In Davos in the presence of the President of Ukraine and Prime Minister of the Netherlands signed a gas deal, so it seems he is not so unpopular there.....

I like МС Янукович... But that does not mean МС Янукович deserves to be mentioned in Wikipedia.... Same goes for the "wreath thing".

The fact that "Prime Minister Tymoshenko" is not accused of corruption, but "businesswoman Tymoshenko" is is so trivial that I fail to see the importance in extra mentioning it. It is already described in the description of the criminal cases. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  02:37, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Azarov said:
The fact that somebody says a criminal case should be opened and then not goes to the police to ask for one is not noticeable enough for this article. This article is about criminal cases that happened... not ones that never happened. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  04:00, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Just made these Azarov 2010 remarks a footnote in this article. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  04:09, 24 January 2013 (UTC)


 * If you give the accusations by Azarov (my paragraph), and then let the position of those who are accused. --Vles1 (talk) 09:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

That already happened: Tymoshenko and her followers saw the trials (and other similar trails) as political payback by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and his Party of Regions says one of the first sentences in the article. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

This is not the same thing.--Vles1 (talk) 00:10, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Again I remind you of my main argument: If this article will be stuffed with details then nobody will read it (because it will be to difficult to read). —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  00:17, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * In Kiev, now 2:30 am. Let me tomorrow to work on the article - I'll try to write short. But the value of Wikipedia is to provide the best information, not newspaper stamps.--Vles1 (talk) 00:33, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Help Wanted!
This article would benefit greatly with more editors being involved in its editing! (Right now I am the only one and that is hindering the article; more viewpoints are needed!) Some suggestions on how to improve the article can be found here. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  18:50, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

30 April 2013 news: Ukraine violated Tymoshenko's rights says the European Court of Human Rights
Since the European Court of Human Rights judgement "Tymoshenko's detention ahead of her trial had violated her right to liberty and security because it had been ordered for an indefinite period of time" is not final as the parties involved have three months to lodge any appeal I have decided not to include this in this article yet per WP:CRYSTAL & WP:NOTEVERYTHING (it is not their final judgment; I believe when they come to a final judgement this judgement should be included in this article) and this verdict does not overturn her prison sentence; the European Court of Human Rights will examine that verdict later, in a separate case (hence it is not a game-changing verdict either). —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Today Justice Minister of Ukraine Oleksandr Lavrynovych said that it is unlikely that Ukraine will appeal against the judgment... —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  21:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I have the feeling: a leader of the Party of Regions, Oleksandr Yefremov, is opening the gate to her pardoning
Or am I reading to much in this news article... Anyway this is all WP:CRYSTAL... But I wanted to keep you updated this way. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  21:56, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Petition calling for Tymoshenko's release on the White House Web...
... has collected over 109,000 signatures, if a petition gathers more than 100,000 signatures within 30 days, White House its staff will send it to the relevant department and then notify the authors and all citizens who signed the petition of the decision by email. —  Yulia Romero  • Talk to me!  16:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

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