Talk:Criminal justice

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Cleanup
I've understand this very clear tagged this page for cleanup because I believe that lots of information neeeds to be reformatted or removed. The style needs to be changed as well as taking emphasis off the colonial/American justice system, or at least explaining other systems of criminal justice.


 * I concurred, and revamped the entire page. The last page had absolutely no sense of formatting nor any logical sequence that I could follow.  It was very random and patchwork and had lots of different perspectives thrown in without any rhyme or reason.  I tried to reorganize it, but it was pretty much unsalvageable.  What I've replaced it with is a framework for a logical and well-organized article.  Obviously, my contribution is only the basis from which this page will grow, but at least it offers some organized categories to work within.  The old page was, let's face it, crap.  72.178.131.225 01:49, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * What this article needs is a more objective, scientific, and thorough explanation of the various theories and components of criminal justice. I would like to see a discussion of the different theories for criminal behavior and a more thorough explanation of the different forms of police goals.  I also need more well-defined examples of historical criminal justice practices.  That, and citations.


 * What this article DOES NOT need is lots of divergent or excessively detailed examples of criminal justice histories. This is what destroyed the old article.  Everyone seemed to write highly detailed paragraphs that might have been perfectly fine but lacked a place in the overall organization of the article.  It also does not need long lists of examples from every single country that do not contribute to our understanding of the subject.  The last article had a list of "goals" for criminal justice from four or five different countries which all basically said the same thing and did nothing but take up space.  If you want to post something that adds to our understanding of criminal justice as a whole, please post it.  If you just want to throw in your two cents so that you can feel included, please don't.


 * "Criminal Justice" is an enormous subject meant to cover the entire breadth of social law and order. I think this might actually be an example of when less means more.  The subject of criminal justice itself might be too broad for a useful discussion.  My alternative is that this page be used to provide a very general overview and to be a jumping-off point to investigating other, more specific, subjects.  So if you want to post really detailed and excessively specific examples, it might be better to do so in a sub-article.  72.178.131.225 02:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Many of your changes are good and being bold is encouraged. And, I agree that the article was a mess and needs work.  However, removing material that is referenced should be discussed on the talk page.  The article needs to include discussion of how criminal justice has evolved, in a few paragraphs, with a link to a detailed subarticle.  The section on goals is important, because it brings in examples from various countries and helps to give a more international perspective to the article. Including an international perspective is extremely important.  More examples (e.g. Islamic law) are needed and a general synthesis of how goals and criminal justice vary around the world.  Theories of criminal behavior can be discussed in brief, but is done more in depth in the criminology (study of criminal behavior) article.  Criminal justice is really about the system of law enforcement and processing of offenders/cases through the system.  There are various ways that is (and has been) done, with different theories and philosophies guiding how things are done. This article needs to focus on the system and the process. --Aude (talk) 02:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * As made obvious in this article, entry level careers are available such as corrections officers or police officers, although there is no mention made of a highly educated person being able to find a career within the field that not only challenges them but forces them to use the education that they gained through undergraduate and even post-graduate studies. Such examples of this are becoming an attorney, accountant, or social worker, all of which require at the least an undergraduate degree to gain an understanding of each field.
 * I also feel that under the law heading, removing “usually enforced through a set of institutions” and give a more elaborate definition of the word law would better explain what law actually is. I would also include what these institutions could be or how one would go about ensuring that these laws are upheld to clear up any confusion that the reader might be feeling by the broadness of the sentence.
 * Another improvement I feel to be somewhat necessary for this article would be to elaborate on the history section, specifically on the Criminal Justice systems of other countries. While in the United States, our main focus should be on our own Criminal Justice system, I feel that having somewhat of an incite to other countries systems would be rather helpful to anyone in the field given that the interaction with other countries systems could potentially occur.
 * The last major change I would choose to make to this article would to be to take the Modern Police heading and place it as a subdivision under Policing, and then take the History section and place it in the beginning of the article. I do not feel that the end of the article is an appropriate mention for the history of the field, and instead should be placed in the beginning of an article to give the reader some incite as to where each subdivision within the field is stemming from. I also feel that if there is a whole section dedicated for just Policing, that the Modern Police paragraph should be placed as a subdivision underneath that instead of thrown in at the end where it doesn’t logically fall into place.  Nu student10 (talk) 16:35, 29 May 2008 (UTC)nu_student10 5/29/2008
 * 71.126.175.90 (talk) 02:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree that modern policing should be placed under policing in the larger historic sense. It needs to be greatly expanded and balanced. The present section is schematic only, and arbitrarily highlighted. In fact, examination of the history of police and police departments for major U.S. in Wikipedia show little of the systematic treatment provided by Zimring for firearms history - which has significant overlap with policing from 1919 on. It would be important to present more nuanced treatment of policing from the colonial era to the post World War II period (even though earliest policing might not use that name). Subdivisions might include the period from formal organization of police forces in major cities (1838-1850) the arbitrary and often corrupt conditions in the gilded age (1876-1890), the age of reform from 1893-1905, and the rise of gun use in the post World War I period (overlapping with prohibition and the rise of organized crime syndicates in the 1920s). I haven't looked into it but I am intrigued by the possible use of the famous  1911 Encyclopedia Britannica's section on policing.


 * The decline of history teaching and historians' roles from the 1960s has caused American graduates from the 1970s to often gain simplistic pictures of past conditions as "less advanced". This does not square with the fact that in 1905 police officers in larger urban American cities like NY, Boston, and Chicago did not wear guns - and were nevertheless respected. Reforms in policing like those introduced by Theodore Roosevelt while serving as President of the New York City Board of Police Commissioners (1895-1897), combined with other developments brought American cities to new levels of public safety and health developments, transportation, and organization - even under less than ideal political leaders.


 * Finally, the proliferation of drug and alchohol abuse in the 1960s, combined with emphasis on prison and criminal justice reform, abolition of reformatories and other reforms of juvenile justice systems (marginalizing concern for public safety), had a widely overlooked effect on increase in purchase of handguns, production, and imports. Many citizens who would have never purchased guns before took gun control as an issue associated with liberal groups that lacked sufficient concern for public safety - lending gun control a partisan flavor rather than a subject for intelligent policymaking.
 * 71.126.175.90 (talk) 02:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Criminal History
I think this part of the article needs major expansion as it, at the moment, focuses primarily on the USA. Lets face it, crime existed a long time before the USA did, and it is important to take into consdireation the full development of crime from ancient periods to modern world-wide trends. alf 12:12, 27 September 2005 (UTC) Criminal justice is the profession of investigating crimes and doing police work.

Hammurabi's Code
Should the link to Hammurabi's Code be included in the 'See Also' section? After all, it is an important part of history of Criminal justice.--Martin925 01:02, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:LEAD
What happened to the WP:LEAD from this article, from this version? Cirt (talk) 16:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks like it was removed in a few vandal edits, added it back. Cirt (talk) 16:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * At any rate, the WP:LEAD could still be expanded a bit more, would be much appreciative if someone were to do that. Cirt (talk) 17:05, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject Prisons
If anyone's interested, I've proposed a new wikiproject for the creation of articles regarding specific prisons here. --Cdogsimmons (talk) 01:28, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Differences
i just seek any helper who can explain to me 'what is the different between classical criminal justice system and criminal justice system nowaday?
 * Off the top of my head, classical systems (by which I presume you mean ancient Greek and Roman) were more geared to retribution than rehabilitation (which seems to be a trend of the last 100 years or so). I can't cite sources for this, because I haven't practised criminology professionally since 1988. Rodhull  andemu  13:56, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Refences
I couldn't access source refence 9, is this just me? Error code 404. If it is unavailable, can we get it found? Thanks guys. TheThiefOfEden (talk) 23:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Needs history section
Article needs a review of criminal justice history since World 'war II. The expansion of civil rights in the 1960s, involving juvenile justice, Miranda, and the prison reform movent, along with increased drug traffic resulted in a rapid increase in crime. This in turn brought about public "fear of crime" as a function separate from crime itself after 1970 (David Garland, 2001) This in turn led to rise in gun ownership, "hardening" of homes, and lack of trust in the public safety system. Crime topped off in the 1980s. A public reaction set in, resulting in harsher sentences, incarceration, and a steep rise in the U.S.prison population, which is now about 25% of the world's, although the U.S. has only 5% of global population.


 * Wrong article. That info can be found in the various articles about the history of the USA.  This article is (supposed to be) about the general concept that exists in most countries. Gronky (talk) 19:16, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

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