Talk:Croke Park

Untitled
what does the gaa have do to prevent the goverment using corke park should the goverment use corke park for other sports events? build a new stadium? or should the Gaa preserve the right to refuse the goverment use croke park? unsigned question


 * It's not so straightforward... there are restrictions on how often it can be used, due to the disturbance caused to local residents. unsigned answer


 * The GAA own Croke Park outright (see the History section), so have as much right as any private citizen or group to decide what goes on on their own private property. --Aaron McDaid 19:21, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The history section doesn't mention anything about funding - was it raised entirely by the GAA or was there some government funding? Autarch 14:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It entirely private but the government did give the gaa a 30 million grant if that makes sence. Basicly the grant was to the GAA not spefically for the building of cp but it went too the building of cp (Gnevin 15:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC))

Im glad to see that Croke Park are opening its doors to facilitate international rugby and soccer during the Lansdowne Road redevelopement. Hopefully there can be just as great an atmosphere during these games as there is in All Ireland finals.
 * Hopefully there can be just as great an atmosphere during these games as there is in All Ireland finals Thats never going to happen.

Pitch copyvio

 * The "Pitch" section of this article appears to be a verbatum copy of part of this page, which is in breach of the site's copyright terms. I have removed the offending text. Guinness 14:19, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

uefa 5 star ranking
croke park got this a while ago so i think it should be included as it is not in the group of 5 star stadiums

Added to cat (Gnevin 16:33, 11 June 2006 (UTC))


 * what the hell it has now been romoved from the uefa 5 star category Neilchamp
 * Appartently its not a five star stadium and will out proof too say it is . i cant re add (Gnevin 18:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC))

Croker seems to fulfill all the criteria for a UEFA 5 star ranking but maybe the fact that it's not a soccer ground yet, could be the reason it doesn't have an official ranking. Afn 18:08, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure that croker has floodlights? I know there's a plan to put them in, but I don't believe they are there yet.. wmcnamara. Sept 10th 2006.

Croke park does NOT have UEFA 5 star rating. Star ratings are only applied by UEFA once a stadium has applied to host a UEFA Cup or Champions League final. Croke park never has. So the fact it may meet the criteria doesnt matter. Willy turner 18:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Fixture table
I understand why User:Gnevin removed the table but I think that in context it has some real relevance. He talked about none of the peer stadia having fixture lists. Correct, but none of the peer stadia have allowed foreign sports to be played on their grass for the first time ever and are proposing to revert their temporary rule change that allowed this to happen.

If the GAA revert to their previous attitude, then I think a list of the 6 (or whatever) games that were played there would be appropriate for inclusion. And given that, I think its appropriate to include the list now. So I have reverted the revert. Frelke 20:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I still dont see what the point is, yes its worth mentioning that fact that 'foreign game' will be played their but Republic of Ireland national football team doesnt even include it (Gnevin 23:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
 * I see it as being about notability. I think it is notable that these were/are/will be the only non-gaelic games (plus the american football) played at Croke Park. But if, for instance, the GAA decided to open up Croke Park to "foreign games" for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't see it as notable anymore. Do you get my drift?Frelke 14:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it is entirely likely that, once the IRFU and FAI have finished building their brand spanking new stadium that is going to cost them €365 million, they're not likely to want to use Croke Park anymore are they? As for the excuse "the fixtures aren't listed on the IRFU and FAI pages", that's spurious at best. These fixtures, for the time that they last, are historic and a list of them should be maintained. Hammersfan 22/02/07, 09.55 GMT

Capacity
I previously corrected the capacity to 82,300. This is the figure on the official Croke Park website. User Gnevin has since reverted it to 82,500, citing the fact that the wikipedia article says it once had an attendance of 82,500. That is irrelevant. Any stadium capacity figure should be taken where possible from an official club or stadium website Willy turner 18:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * (Gnevin 18:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC))

It says 82,500 on the very link you give. 87.194.61.149 10:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The article suggests that Croke park is the 5th largest stadium (in terms of capacity) in the EU, listed behind Camp Nou, Wembley, San Siro and Rome's stadio olympico.

However the link for the rome stadium suggests it has a capacity of 82000. This is smaller than Croke Park's stated capacity of 82300/82500. So that makes it the 4th largest surely. Is there some other info about the rome stadium to suggest it has a larger capacity than 82000.--89.100.40.221 10:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Original Construction Cost
If the Irish pound didn't exist between 1826 and 1928. Why is this the currency used to quote the original construction costs? Fasach Nua 19:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point changing it to what ever it was back then (Gnevin 20:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC))
 * On a basic google search [] it is throwing up £3,500 STG to purchase the ground, which is where I suspect this figure came from! It is obviously not the construction cost, I have blanked this value until the right number can be found Fasach Nua 21:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

bloody sunday
Inonsistency with Bloody Sunday (1920) page. That page regards the Auxilary involvement to be a misconception wheras the Croke Park page has the Auxilary as the cause.

To quote:

"The Croke Park Massacre on the afternoon of Bloody Sunday is usually blamed on the Auxiliaries. While the police raiding party was composed in part of Temporary Cadets from Depot Company and commanded by an Auxiliary officer, Major Mills, eyewitness reports make it clear that ordinary police did most of the shooting at Croke Park.[22]"

Inconsistency needs to be addressed.
 * I dont see the problem both articles seem to be consistent with each other (Gnevin 01:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC))


 * How can they be consistent? One is saying the Auxhiliaries were the cause, the other is saying that the Auxhilary involvement is a misconcption. If the Auxhilaries involvement is a misonception, then surely they were not the cause?!

Is anyone going to deal with this contradiction, or are we just going to ignore it indefinitely?

I propose:

''During the Irish War of Independence on November 21, 1920 Croke Park was the scene of a massacre by the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC). The Police, supported by British Army Auxillaries (Black & Tans) entered the ground, shooting indiscriminately into the crowd killing or fatally wounding 12 during a Dublin-Tipperary gaelic football match. The dead included 11 spectators and Tipperary's captain, Michael Hogan. Posthumously, the Hogan stand built in 1924 was named in his honour. These shootings, on the day which became known as Bloody Sunday, were a reprisal for the assassination of 14 British Intelligence officers, known as the Cairo Gang, by Michael Collins's 'squad' earlier that day. ''

It's essentially an edit of the existing text, restored to match Bloody Sunday article. I removed 'massacre' as the dictionary definition is "the indiscriminate killing of a large number of human beings", I edited the dead from the shootings to 12 (2 were trampled) and changed the perpatrators to the Royal Irish Constabulary, without the detail of Mills being in command. If someone wants to know that I'm sure they'll check the full article. I think the above is more accurate, anyone disagree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.76.189.10 (talk) 23:20, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Edited to restore 'massacre', seems that's the accepted phrase 'Croke Park Massacre'.

'the largest owned by an amateur organisation'
Does this mean its the largest amateur ground in Ireland, Europe, the 6 nations or the world?--Play Brian Moore 16:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've edited that to read 'outside the United States'. Listened to Micheál O'Muireacheartaigh talking about Croke Park and it's history on, I think Sunday 11th Feb, on RTÉ Radio 1, and he mentioned that it was the largest amateur stadium outide the US.  Unfortunately I can't remember if he mentioned the name of the stadium in the US that's larger, but Googling for "largest amateur stadium" gives this result. Bastun 12:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that National Sports Center link refers to largest acreage rather than spectator capacity. The word amateur is vague when applied to players; when applied to organisations, doubly so. Given the vagueness, I think the text  should be omitted entirely, or qualified as "is described by X as the largest...". Other contenders include Michigan Stadium (111,000) or Rungrado May Day Stadium (150,000).  There's also Hampden Park, which has held crowds of up to 149,000. jnestorius(talk) 14:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

National stadium
Is Croke Park a national stadium ? Or in other words is Croke Park the the primary or exclusive home for one or more of a country's national representative sports teams .In my opinion its only the temperory home of Soccer and Rugby and so doesn't pass this def Gnevin (talk) 08:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'd have to agree with you. The only places you could really say are national stadiums in Ireland are Lansdowne Road, Dundalk Ice Dome, National Basketball Arena, arguably National Stadium (Ireland) and whereever Ireland play cricket, hockey, etc which I can't find. Derry Boi (talk) 09:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Until such time as Landsdowne is open Croke Park is it. It is also the home of the Compromise Rules team, lest ye forget. Sarah777 (talk) 19:22, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Ooh, a technical knock-out, I think! Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 19:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Bastun, I sincerely hope you are not...eh....pulling my chain. Sarah777 (talk) 22:59, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. Its certainly the "primary" (if not necessarily exclusive - but it only needs to be one of them) home for International Rules football. Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 23:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Redevelopment
The article mention future work, but does anyone know what changes in capacity this would result in? Lord Cornwallis (talk) 20:20, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Capacity
I've changed the capacity to 82,300 according to the GAA website: http://www.crokepark.ie/page/venue_information.html --HighKing (talk) 00:10, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Welsh spelling
Someone has just added cy:Parc Croke. Is 'Croke' the correct spelling in Welsh? That's the Anglicised spelling, I would have thought that the name originated in Irish as Crocaigh, so a Welsh translation would surely be closer to that. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 17:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Crocaigh is a gaelised spelling of Croke ,I'd say Croke is correct Gnevin (talk) 20:32, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, a Google search suggests that Croke (in Ireland) actually originates as an Anglicised version of the Irish Cróc, which itself comes from Old Norse Krokr. However if Parc Croke is what's actually used in Welsh then that's what they should call the article; making their own translation would be OR and breach commonname. Tameamseo (talk) 10:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi guys. This conversation should really be happening on the CY project. If there is an issue with the title of an article on that Wiki, it should be addressed with a move/rename request on that Wiki. Discussing it here isn't going result in any change... Cheers Guliolopez (talk) 10:47, 23 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I've mentioned and linked to this conversation over at the Welsh page. Derry Boi (talk) 11:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

125th Anniversary: photos?
I was at the celebration in Croke Park last night along with 80,000 other souls. Not a bad attendance for a very wintry Saturday night (especially at the top of the Hogan where the wind would cut you). Aside from the match (which was superb), the fireworks, lights, concerts and everything made Croker look last night like it has never looked before. Does anybody have photos of it that they could add to this article? That would be a fantastic addition. My photos were taken with my phone so they would be a bit crap for this article to be honest. There must be brilliant photos! 86.42.73.225 (talk) 19:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The Ban
It may be worth expanding on the following sentence:
 * The belief was that rugby and soccer were in competition with football and hurling.

Perhaps it could be replaced with:
 * The justification was that rugby and soccer were in competition with football and hurling. Though it was suggested by ... that it was a specifically anti-English rule as there was no such ban on sports which did not originate in England.

Needless to say it would need the relevant citation and a short list of some of those who made the allegation. Pnelnik (talk) 09:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It certainly would need a citation, because I don't remember seeing any rule that singled out English-originated sports. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The only sports mentioned by rule 27 were of English origin, was that just a coincidence?
 * However, perhaps the best place in wikipedia for a mention of controversy of the (xenophobic) rules that the GAA had, is on the main GAA page, rather than in the Croke Park article. Indeed the main GAA article already mentions rule 42, which concerns banning the named English / foreign sports from GAA property. Though currently there are some inconsistencies between this article and that regarding what rules 27 and 42 actually contained. Pnelnik (talk) 00:04, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Reprisal?
It is surely wrong to say that the Croke Park 'bloody Sunday' shootings were 'in reprisal' for anything.

'In reprisal' sounds as if the deaths were planned and the deaths premeditated.

Nothing in the Wikipedia main bloody Sunday article, or any other source, suggests that the deaths were planned or premeditated. What happened looks more like a classic balls up by frightened policemen on a day when many other people had already been killed by the IRA - deaths which were premeditated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.0.208 (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * More seriously, what does it need to make this article a "B"? Sarah777 (talk) 22:15, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Future concerts
I have reverted addition of concerts that have not yet taken place, but there are several editors continuing to add the Chilli Peppers event next June. I would argue against this inclusion: this is an encyclopaedia of facts, not a listing magazine, and the frequency of concert cancellation is such that it is difficult to say more than that this is scheduled. I would maintain therefore that it should not be in the article until it occurs, or at least that, if retained, it should be in a separate table. Opinions? Kevin McE (talk) 08:08, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

I dont think it makes any difference whether future concerts are listed on the article, but if users are continuing to add the events then maybe its better to leave them and make a seperate table like you suggested. Handsopened (talk) 12:59, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

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