Talk:Cross Game/Archive 1

The chapter numbering issue
Given the amount of confusion over the chapter numbering, what with it restarting in volume 2, should that get mentioned somewhere? —Quasirandom 18:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It might be a good idea. I think volume one is somewhat of a prelude to the rest of the series. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Two or three parts?
In a related issue, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Part One takes place in elementary school, and Part Two while they are entering and during high school? Formally, there really is only the two parts, not three the way this Lead implies. —Quasirandom 17:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, technically, part two includes some of junior high school, and then leads into high school. It's been a bit since I read the beginning, thoough, so I'll go reread it and let you know. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:42, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * As I recall, part 2 starts late in junior high, and we transition into high school near the end of volume 2 (the first of that part). But like you, it's been a bit since I read it, and ought to reread before making further pronouncements. Formally, though, there are only the two parts. —Quasirandom 03:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Update: Well, actually, there will be three parts, when the series returns in the spring. Or rather, at least three parts. (I have a suspicion it'll be four, one named for each sister.) —Quasirandom (talk) 22:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

"Manager" in Japanese high school baseball
This is more of a general comment about baseball manga, but I'm first noticing it here so I'll bring up here. The link to Manager (baseball) is extremely misleading, since the position that's often translated as "manager," typically held by girls, is very different from the field manager of an American baseball team. However, my search fu is failing to find a better article to link to. Can anyone come up with something better? —Quasirandom 16:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * True, but I've run into the same problem as you. I'll try to define the position here to perhaps help in making that determination. The manager on a Japanese junior high and high school team makes sure all of the equipment is taken care of and stored after practices and games. The manager keeps stats on all the players as well as stats for all their games. She (seems to usually be, at least in anime/manga) also keeps stats on opponents and studies their strengths and weaknesses in order to help her teammates. She many times will help keep the players' uniforms clean and in good repair. Can you think of anything else? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * That pretty much covers my understanding of the job. —Quasirandom 04:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If we can find enough references, perhaps we could make a separate section or article? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking that'd be good. I've come across explanations before, but tracking them down might take a couple days. —Quasirandom 15:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Characters
We need an entry for the first-string coach, the one who displaced Maeno. He's too important a character to omit. —Quasirandom 21:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

why isn't there an entry for Akane? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.113.6.227 (talk) 06:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably because she only just showed up in the last two months and no one had gotten around to mentioning her. I haven't, because I still don't know enough to blurb her competantly. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Pruning?
Yanno, that character list goes on a lonnnnnng way down the page and many of them are not particularly important to the story. I'm wondering whether we should consider trimming it down to the main characters, with the publisher's character list as a guide to who's considered major (to avoid original research). Even if none of the coaches are included. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Years
Since Kō is just entering high school, and there are only three years in Japanese high school, a junior would be one year ahead of him, and a senior would be two. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Right -- but given the story covers multiple years, a second-year student doesn't stay there. That's why I'm trying to identify relative years. Those were relative to Kō at when he entered then. —Quasirandom 14:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty much everything in the article is referring to the beginning of high school (or earlier). ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, are Japanese colleges three- or four-year programs? I've never been clear on that. —Quasirandom 16:44, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Generally four, though (as in many other countries) it depends on the type of school (technical, academic, trade, etc.), the degree one is seeking, and the school itself. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Potential anime
I'd put this directly in the article, but it's a report about the rumor of an upcoming announcement, sourced to 2ch. Supposedly, in the 14 January issue of Weekly Shounen Sunday, there was to be an announcement of an anime adaptation of Cross Game. I'm not seeing any followup to this on ANN, so I'm bringing it here: anyone seen anything more definitive (aka reliable)? —Quasirandom (talk) 20:03, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, it apparently was announced as planned to start in April, but so far I'm only finding forums discussing it rather than a sourced news brief. I'm going to add this without sourcing, for the moment. —Quasirandom (talk) 18:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Reference formats
Using nihongo in the title field is doing some funky things to the cite web template -- the url being exposed and autolinked, giving us two links per reference to the same thing. Is there any workaround for this? —Quasirandom (talk) 20:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Where? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The first couple references on the article. The first one renders for me as ""Cross Game: Mitsuru Adachi baseball manga slated for Spring '09 anime adaptation (クロスゲーム：あだち充の野球マンガ　０９年春にアニメ化 ?)" (in Japanese). Mainichi Shimbun. 2009-01-14. http://mainichi.jp/enta/mantan/news/20090114mog00m200012000c.html. Retrieved on 2009-01-25." —Quasirandom (talk) 00:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, I modified how the first ref is written. What do you think of that format? I think it's important to have a translation of the title, especially if we want this article to eventually be FA. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it's certainly less link-ugly (and has a shorter linktext, always good), but I'm not certain about the brackets at the end. How does WP:JAPAN handle this in their FA/GA articles? —Quasirandom (talk) 14:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know that it's come up before. I've never noticed that issue with the links before. I wonder if there was a software change or something... ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:31, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yanno, I bet you're right about a software change. Wonder whether it was in cite web or nihongo? —Quasirandom (talk) 19:43, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Anyway, I've made the same change to the other two references. —Quasirandom (talk) 20:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Pruning characters?
Yanno, that character list goes on a lonnnnnng way down the page and many of them are not particularly important to the story. I'm wondering whether we should consider trimming it down to the main characters, with the publisher's character list as a guide to who's considered major (to avoid original research). Even if none of the coaches are included. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Or just split it into a list of characters. Have the main characters listed here, and then have all the characters listed at List of Cross Game characters. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Or, yeah, do something sensible. Assuming we can find enough reliable source reviews mention the characters to assert the cast as a whole are notable. —Quasirandom (talk) 22:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Akane's name
@Nihonjoe: When you say "there is no evidence of this" when removing Her name means "madder", another evergreen plant with four leaves, is that because we don't have the kanji? I note that madder is the only meaning of あかね that appears in a Denshi Jisho lookup. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There is no evidence her name means this. Are there any references which state she is named after the plant? I can't find any. Her name is written only in hiragana, so there is no telling what her name really means, or if it's just a name. Saying that her name means "madder" is original research unless you can come up with a reference specifically stating this character's name means that (not just that the word can mean that). ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I should also note that I've seen the name "Akane" written multiple ways, almost all of which don't mean "madder". あかね, 亜香音, 阿加根, 茜, 茜根, 安佳音, 紅根, 紅祢, 朱, 朱音, 朱根, 朱子, 明音, 明香音, and 明根 are all ways the name can be written, all with different meanings. With names, unless you are told specifically it means something, you can't assume a meaning. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

While we're on translation issues, why are we rendering the titles of the parts in the plural ("Seasons")? Does Kisetsu convey a plural sense in context? —Quasirandom (talk) 21:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose it's because she was around for a number of seasons (seeing as she died when she was 11). It sounds more natural than "Season of Wakaba", to me. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * But what about "The Season of Wakaba"? Which sounds both moderately elegant and thematically appropriate, especially when extended to "The Season of Aoba". —Quasirandom (talk) 15:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The "The" doesn't make much difference as far as sounding natural, and that's why the plural was likely used. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Gotcha. Sometime soon, I'll move the details of the parts down to the Manga section, once I figure out a suitably terse way to summarize it in the lead. At the same time I'll see if I can't pot a lead-suitable summary of the story that goes beyond the initial premise. —Quasirandom (talk) 19:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Kanji chapter titles
@Nihonjoe: Do you have an online source for the rest of the Japanese chapter titles? If so, I can help with the pasting them in. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, here. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:13, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Coo. That'll make good breaktime taskwork tomorrow. And later. (Though you'll have to get the romaji.) —Quasirandom (talk) 06:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There -- used that source up. Got another for the last two-and-a-half volumes? —Quasirandom (talk) 14:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Found another that lists all of them. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've updated the rest of them. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 21:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Coo. Thankee. Next (at least for me) will be finishing the volume summaries then giving the characters a copyedit -- maybe later this month. And seeing if we can't find more French reviews to help fill out the Reception. —Quasirandom (talk) 21:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Thai publisher
I can't get the website of the listed Thai publisher (confirmed from the th.wiki article and various google searches) to admit "Cross Game" or "ครอสเกม" is in its catalog (Adachi shows up only for Touch, which also they publish). From machine-translated blog comments, it sounds like the Thai edition is not yet published, which could explain the absence. Something to watch and return to verifying in the future. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As mentioned on the list of chapters talk page, eventually found it -- the publisher was waiting for the series to start serialization in their magazine before admitting it for real. —Quasirandom (talk) 01:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

GA or Peer review?
Do we want to have a peer review or GA review of this article? It's one of the better-written and sourced anime articles here. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * We're not quite ready for GAN, methinks. It's on my plate to give the thing a thorough copy edit, especially for awkward prose -- possibly this week I'll get started on that. In the meantime, we can get a peer review from one of the more experienced GA-nominators in the project, for guidance on how to get it ready. I suspect we'll be asked to split off the usual lists (characters, chapters, episodes) for length before we nominate. I also wonder whether we have enough Reception for a GA article (even if we do include the reviews identified above, not yet incorporated). —Quasirandom (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I would strongly urge going for a peer review first. The article is not quite ready got GA yet. The episode and chapter lists definately need splitting, as does the characters (or severely cut down). The short setting section is not very useful at all, there is no production section (any info available), and the reception is definitely too short at this point. Also, the lead is not quite ready and there are minor errors in the infoboxes and reference formatting. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 02:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you be more specific about the "minor errors in the infoboxes and reference formatting"? ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Really only one, the manga has the original run formatted wrong - it should be a month, not an issue #-- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 05:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not an error as it's a weekly magazine. Using the issue number is as specific as it gets, and is perfectly acceptable there. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * By "no reception", do you mean "no production"? (I've never seen any comments from Adachi on origin/inspiration, for pretty much anything, I have to say.) —Quasirandom (talk) 03:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Dur, yes...brain fart (fixed) :P -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 03:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * More brainfartage: I think you edited the wrong "reception" to "production". —Quasirandom (talk) 04:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * LOL, why one should not drink and edit ;-) -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 04:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * My policy is never drink and Internet. It's too dangerous. —Quasirandom (talk) 04:26, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In any case, for that Production info, I've never seen an Adachi manga with any sort of author's notes, and interviews seem to be infrequent. He JOKES about his work (with fourth wall breakage like anything) but rarely says anything serious. —Quasirandom (talk) 04:30, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Another thing not quite ready: most of the character descriptions give plotted history, rather than describing the character (that is, the personality and role in the story). I haven't seem much in the way of character description from reviewers, so we'll have to rely on reactions from other characters (such as the frequent comparisons of Koh and Aoba). —Quasirandom (talk) 04:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, I'm thinking that we don't need the first three references: they are all forward-looking, and it would be better to have references that state past events in the actual Anime section (with nothing about the anime in the lead, as it's uncontroversial info now). —Quasirandom (talk) 02:35, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

So who wants to start the peer review process? —Quasirandom (talk) 17:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

So what's the current thinking on how long after a peer review one can take an article to WP:GAN? Do you still need to wait two weeks to fulfill the stability criterion? —Quasirandom (talk) 23:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It just needs to have the last two weeks with nothing but improvements and minor edits. As long as no one is warring (and no one is) then it shouldn't be a problem. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Any reason not to go for it then? AnmaFinotera, any thoughts? —Quasirandom (talk) 00:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

State of the TBD
As best I can tell, anyway:


 * ✅ The manga list is as prepped as it needs be to split it off as List of Cross Game chapters -- though of course, once that's done, we'll need to beef up what's currently the intro to give the lead context and add a list of chapters not yet collected in a tankobon. After a peer review and outside copyedit, it may be ready for FAC.
 * ✅ The character list will be ready soon, once I finish my editing passes; its lead can be partially copied from the chapter list's, augmented with a one-sentence plot summary and a paragraph of reviewer comments about the cast -- and, of course, sourcing as much as possible to the manga or anime. I'm not yet sure whether we want to leave behind a separate s(t)ub section of just Koh and Aoba or make List of Cross Game characters a See also to the Plot section. Once split, it'll take a hella lot of referencing to even think about GA/FA -- I don't think it'll even be possible to attempt it until the series is released in English (either manga or anime).
 * ✅ The anime list needs to have the intro filled out (more staff, more broadcast info, more about the music) and more solidly referenced to current production information (instead of news reports of a coming attraction). The latter will likely have to come from Japanese sources -- Nihonjoe, are you up for that? KrebMarkt, are you up for the music? Only when we have that will we be ready to split out List of Cross Game episodes, but it should then be ready for a PR/CE and thence to FAC.

After we do that and finishing digesting the French reviews into Reception, I think we'll be ready for a peer review of the main article, by way of prepping it for GAN.

Thoughts? opinions? raspberries? —Quasirandom (talk) 01:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I rewrote the Cross Game v01 cover image rationale so we are safe on that side :p --KrebMarkt 13:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup -- good for the chapter list, that. —Quasirandom (talk) 00:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I can add more on the staff and whatnot. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That'd be good. (Also, I noticed today that a few more speaking parts have appeared since the VAs were first added -- Deebu, her grandfather, and Miki, for a start.) —Quasirandom (talk) 00:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

List of Cross Game chapters created. Needs a little work, but recruiting an outside copy editor to edit it would be the next step, but with that and some kanji titles it should likely be ready for FAC. —Quasirandom (talk) 18:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Updated the picture rationale :p --KrebMarkt 18:26, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thankee. I hadn't gotten to that. That or I'd forgotten to get to it, take your pick. :-P —Quasirandom (talk) 18:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

List of Cross Game characters created. Needs work on the lead and categories, after which it'll be the long slow process of continued development and referencing. More important first is referencing the anime, splitting that, then peer review of this main article. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I think List of Cross Game episodes is ready to be spun off, though it could use more staff, but I'm dubious we have enough supporting material yet to get beyond a decent B-class list. Any objections to splitting now? —Quasirandom (talk) 14:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Silence = agreement :p --KrebMarkt 14:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. —Quasirandom (talk) 03:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)