Talk:Crossed ladders problem

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========= == From: Merlin on June 12, 2006

Prior edits to this article (of June 3 and 4 2006) have raised several objections concerning content and style. The objections were not explained and the merit of those comments and revisions is disputed. A reversion of redacted material is proposed within a reasonable time. The specific points of objection and comment are:

1. The assertion that the article should be deleted on the grounds that it was "A problem anyone that took geometry in high school can solve" is disputed. Even if that were true, this would not be sufficient complaint for exclusion in an encyclopedic work. By its terms no original work or fact may appear in the Wikipedia. Thus, to exclude a matter because it has been 'done before' or is 'easy' would constitute a seriously misguided view of what should appear in an encyclopedia, and if it prevailed the Wikipedia would be entirely empty. Such is an inappropriate

The claim that the subject matter is simple is, however, more than simply false, it actively disparages the content by missing or contradicting the essential point of the article: that this (popular) problem deceptively appears simple, but is not simple.

It is not simple to more than 98% of the US population with 12th grade education for the solution involves solving a quartic equation and these equations are *not* discussed in US high school level math classes. Instead, the essential object of the 'puzzle' is to entice an attempt to solve it by those who do not initially recognize its difficulty. It is an entertaining puzzle, not an abusive one, it has a solution within reach and one which leads the attemptor to satisfactorily agitate, "the little grey cells" [Agatha Christie's 'Poirot'], to exercize new or old math skills and perhaps discover and appreciate the work of a sixteenth century Italian mathematician Lodovico Ferrari (b. 1522 AD). The attempt may even lead a young (or older) mind to take an interest in the later work of the renoun French mathematician Évariste Galois (b. 1811 AD). We stand upon the shoulders of these brilliant pioneers, it does no one honor to pretend they stand alone.

The inclusion or deletion of a particular article here in the Wikipedia is ultimately a matter for the publisher. In my opinion a math compendium such as the CRC Handbook or MathWorld may appropriately be dry as dust and severely concise, but an encyclopedia should inform, should teach, should lead the reader somewhere interesting and have a human dimension. Appropriately crafted, this article can accomplish those things, and is appropriate for inclusion in the Wikipedia.

2. The apparent appropriation of this article by MathWorld presents additional concerns. Would editor Kotepho please explain any knowledge (s)he has of this?

Thank you for the courtesy. Please reply below. Merlin Pendragon 23:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

==== I support the inclusion of the article. Furthermore, I'd like to see one on the other ladder problem, that of determining the longest horizontal ladder of zero width which can be taken round a right-angle bend between two corridors of arbitrary width; also considering the non-trivial extension to the case of the object to be transported having non-zero width.

Garry ==== Thank you Garry. As you point out there are other ladder problems. This one is pretty famous/notorious/entertaining for several reasons and should particularly appear in the Wikipedia. It should be correct and non-controversial, yet take the reader somewhere interesting. It could also refer to other ladder problems (there are actually several websites dedicated to these problems).

As to complaints about this article I think several good edits have been made but other edits have taken things onto the wrong track. I have allowed over 60 days for response to the above comment. There is no doubt the article can be improved, certainly, but unexplained objections by one editor about the article being inappropriate or needing cleanup are too vague to regard as proper or helpful. In the absence of specific objections or further discussion I intend to remove the tags and make several other editing changes to return this article to the track I began.

-Merlin [shooting from the hip for corrodors of equal width, <=w*sqrt(8), but don't quote me ;^)] Aug 15, 2006 ====