Talk:Crossover (fiction)

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Comment
Has anyone seen that Swiffer commercial with Florence from The Jeffersons, Rosario from Will & Grace, Alice from The Brady Bunch, Benson from Soap and Benson, and Geoffrey from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?

What category would that be in? Because honestly, the ones here are a little confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mole (talk • contribs) 17:21, 26 July 2004

No one really likes posting here when the categories are this confusing. I know, I made them. If anyone wants to reorganize them in some form, or explain them in better terms, go ahead. Ihavenolife —Preceding undated comment added 04:56, 26 September 2004

It seems to me that the place to start is by defining the different types a little better - these categories are both confusing and in some cases, counter-intuitive. What did you have in mind for each of them when you created them? Lokicarbis 06:38, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

Why is the article under the plural 'fictional crossovers' and 'fictional crossover' a redirect? 213.236.117.2 14:28, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

List of crossovers really necessary?
The current lists of different crossover occurrences seem to be both too long, too unorganized, and too incomplete (to me, anyway).

I think perhaps just having one or two examples of each style of crossover would be better than having a massive jumbled list.

Anyone else agree / disagree / have other ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Rizz (talk • contribs) 19:08, 24 December 2004


 * Sign your comments. I have added the cleanup banner to this section.  Programme titles must be in italics.  Period.  In addition, there is a lot of "creative capitalization" in this section, and incomplete sentences.  Since it's such a mess and will have to be cleaned up by parties not responsible for the mess, I agree with the anon poster above: let's whittle it down, or get rid of it altogether.  The list has become a fanboy magnet and is neither comprehensive nor cohesive enough to be considered encyclopedic. Canonblack 04:12, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi all. Perhaps, given that the list is rather long and unwieldy, a special 'list of fictional crossovers' page could be created and maintained? That way, the discussion of each type (general, parody, etc) could be shortened and a lengthy list of examples could be provided with a separate link. --Joseph Q Publique 04:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I've cleaned up the article and tried to make it a bit more focused and tighter on the topic. Anyone who's wondering where the massive list has gone to, don't worry; the list has been transferred to it's own page, which can be added to whenever by whoever. It's the 'List of fictional crossovers' link in the 'See also' section. Anyone who wants to edit my no doubt random ramblings, please feel free :-). --Joseph Q Publique 08:35, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Regretfully, I would say a list of crossovers is useful. There are a number of practical reasons, including that people who are being introduced to a work may be unaware it has a greater extent than first appears. (And that they may not be "starting at the beginning".)


 * What I regret is over-analysis by fans. When a work is of marginal importance in the first place, a minor crossover to get attention is more on the order of a marketing ploy than an artistic statement. In conjunction, many modern TV and comic characters are written so loosely they could fit in any number of places. Some incarnations of a character differ so much, it would be appropriate to call them crossovers! 76.102.1.129 (talk) 08:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)


 * list of TV show crossovers

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a list of TV crossovers? There is already a list of video game crossovers article. there are a lot of TV crossovers that seem completely ridicules but are awesome( like Mission Impossible and Bewitched). TV producers sometimes crossover other shows that they are producing( like Magnum P.I. and Murder She Wrote, or the Hawaii Five-0 crossovers). I think a list of all of the TV crossovers would be useful for viewers to understand it or something. Maybe sections for a description of the reason for the crossover like who's idea it was( like the producer of Hawaii Five-0 who also produced Magnum P.I. (2018)and Macgyver (2016)). I would be happy to make contributions if an admin could create the page for it. probably a comic book one, too PortalMan2 (talk) 06:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Administrators do not have any more rights to create pages than other editors. You could create the article yourself, if you can find relevant sources. Dimadick (talk) 17:25, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Conan meeting Elric was referenced many subsquent times.
I must disagree with this article. Conan meeting Elric was not some one-shot deal with no consquences. The wizard Kulan Gath died in that crossover, and when he next met Conan in Conan the Barbarian I#253-260, in issue#259, he referenced his death in that issue, calling Elric an "albino". Not only that, but in Savage Sword of Conan#189, Zukala also recalled meeting Elric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.188.116.136 (talk • contribs) 22:59, 20 February 2005

I removed a section about Superman being real in the Seinfeld universe, based on one conversaion in the series. Seinfeld characters frequently talk about stuff they know nothing about. DJ Clayworth 13:57, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, somebody has gone and replaced it. I do not agree that Superman is "real" in the Seinfeld universe.  Jerry and George are simply Superman fans and discuss him frequently.  It's meant as a verbal game the characters play, much like a thought experiment although that's probably givign it too much weight.  I don't think it was ever meant to imply that Superman "exists" in the Seinfeld universe in the sense that one could meet him on the street, or see him flying overhead.  I'm removing the comment from the article. Canonblack 04:18, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with the deletion of Superman in Seinfeld. Using the word "universe" for most works of fiction is fairly pretentious, anyhow. Writers always try to be coherent. I don't see shows such as Seinfeld as having any "universe" at all, it's more like everyday people meeting regularly in everyday circumstances. The use of "universe" is pretentious in much comic usage, too. Throwing characters together for bizarre encounters can be amusing, but it's rarely significant. For example, I haven't read a Superman comic for years. And yet, if I picked any random one off the news stand, I'm confident I'd understand within a couple minutes almost everything that was going on. That is to say, the ten years I've missed of all these "crossovers" ultimately has almost no affect on my reading. 76.102.1.129 (talk) 09:05, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Minor inaccuracy
Captain N took place in Video Land (as explicitly stated in the show's opening) and not N-World. Unless someone makes a similar show based on the N-Gage I doubt anyone would give such a name to a video-game uni/multi-verse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.248.122.134 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 29 October 2005

Considered to be PD?

 * or through the incorporation of characters and fictional universes within the public domain (or those that are at least considered to be; examples include Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, etc)

Sherlock Holmes? Dracula? Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (d. 1930) and Bram Stoker (d. 1912) certainly died before January 1, 1936, putting the works in the public domain in life-plus-50 and life-plus-70 countries. Only a few SH stories remain eligible for copyright in the United States. So are we talking about Mexico (life plus 100)? Or are we talking about use of trademark as an ersatz copyright against derivative works? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 23:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Batman Crossover
I've forgotten the name of the characters that appear in an episode of Batman. Batman and Robin are climbing up a building when two people, dressed in green suits and hats, open a window and ask something. I know they originated on another episode of Batman, but I have forgotten the name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.212.152.106 (talk • contribs) 11:04, 21 April 2006

I can't recall if I've seen that episode or not, but it sounds like you are talking about the Green Hornet and Kato. The GH show was produced by the same people so they cross-over once or twice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.196.152.192 (talk • contribs) 18:23, 1 August 2006

Renaming discussion
The category and the name of this article are currently being discussed for renaming WP:CFD. Some are proposing a complete reversal of title word order to Crossover fiction. // Fra nkB 02:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The_Jimmy_Timmy_Power_Hour
Um, here's one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.160.205.13 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 5 August 2006

Video Game crossovers
Super Robot Wars and Namco X Capcom, as well as all the Marvel vs. Capcom and other similar fighting games could be added into the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.85.162.92 (talk • contribs) 03:47, 13 September 2006

WikiProject Fan Fiction template
I have added the WP Fan Fiction template because this article is used as a reference for "crossover" in some fan fiction articles and a lot of crossovers are fan fiction. This of course does not imply that all crossovers are (as they obviously are not), but a lot are, etc.,etc., so... yeah. Hence the template. Runa27 23:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

List of spin-offs
I think the list of spin-offs is becoming too long and unwieldy; we only need a handful to illustrate the overall point that certain shows that have spin-offs do crossover with each other. Furthermore, whilst I'm not familiar with every show in that list, it seems to have become more a general listing of shows which have spin-offs rather than shows with spin-offs that have crossed over with each other to me, or lists of shows that can be connected by crossovers without actually being spin-offs from each other.--Joseph Q Publique 01:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Article overhaul
With apologies to everyone whose contributions I just lopped off, I adopted a bold stance and did a thorough overhaul of the article. It was, to my eye, on a bit of a rambling course, and said many of the same things repeatedly. Hopefully, it's a bit more focused now.

One of the major changes was to that television crossover list. I just had to delete it. As User:Joseph Q Publique notes, above, it was a conflation of two ideas: spin-offs and crossovers. Frankly, both lists have already been done, better, elsewhere, and the article already linked to both other lists. When a list of crossovers gets to the point of claiming that Blossom and Gloria are related by crossover, it's time to throw it out as failing to convey useful information. Or even, for that matter, accurate information.

I've also greatly reduced the lead and the number of sections. The article has been split into two main sections, "Legal" and "Unofficial" crossovers. Much of the lead appeared in three separate places before; now the bulk of what had been the lead now only appears under the new main section heading, "Legal Crossover". All the stuff that was actually describing a type of television crossover is now under the "Television" heading.

But the article still has significant deficiencies. I think it needs some historical background. It's kinda weird that you can read the whole article and not be able to answer the simple question, "What was the first fictional crossover?". I also think the "Unofficial" section needs some beefing up, and probably needs to get away from its nascent tendency towards yet another list. It probably needs an image: maybe the cover of The Doctor and the Enterprise, since it can't really be covered by copyright, would be appropriate. Maybe there are some hard facts that could be added to the "Legal" section. Is there any data on whether crossovers actually do drive sales or ratings? Are there critical opinions about the merits of crossovers?

The major problem with the article remains that it's still largely unreferenced, and that's a big problem, given how old the article actually is. CzechOut 00:55, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Joking Crossovers in same show?

 * In series Darkwing Duck there are two joking crossovers "A Star is Scorned" {Darkwing Duck charatchers are revealed to be actors-with a joke of Drake Mallard watching "DD" on TV!} and "Twitching Channels" {Darkwing finds out he is a cartoon show in a parrell universive}. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.110 (talk) 13:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Done
i mergered it....--O.waqfi (talk) 17:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Removing duplicate section
The text of this article is, some for reason, duplicated twice. Looking at the edit history it looks like when someone removes the duplicate (as I have just done), a bot will usually come along, detect the sudden deleition of half the article as vandalism, and put the duplication back.

How can we get around this? Aawood (talk) 12:52, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Verne
Wouldn't books like The Mysterious Island an early example? It brings together Verne's characters from 20,000 Leagues and Captain Grant's Children. --Error (talk) 01:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Change name to Crossover (fiction)
The title makes no sense. The crossover is about two fictional works intertwining, but the crossover itself actually exists. The title should definitely be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.112.212 (talk) 21:07, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Sources exist
This proposed deletion and its subsequent removal prompted me to look for more sources. I had already added one printed source for crossovers in webcomics, but it seems there should be more. A Google Scholar search for "Fictional crossover" yields a few potential sources, here is one: It seems there are serious sources out there, but I am too lazy to do more than point them out. -84user (talk) 02:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Shaun Nichols. The architecture of the imagination: new essays on pretence, possibility, and fiction. Pages 80 to 81. Oxford University Press, 2006. ISBN 9780199275731
 * Fair enough, though it seems unlikely that FCs would be the central topic of any serious work, there may be some which discuss them in some detail.
 * In the meantime, I think it might be a good idea to move this article to 'List of FCs' and stubbify the FC article, to make it clear that it's supposed to produce sources which actually discuss the concept rather than just pointing out specific examples. I wonder if anyone strongly objects to that idea? BillMasen (talk) 23:25, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I strongly object. I see no reason to reduce an article to a stub while better sourcing is sought. I would assume good faith on the previous article contributors and improve the thing gradually, after all we're not in a hurry for perfection. -- Cycl o pia talk  02:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right, it's only been two years :). But I am not assuming bad faith on the part of previous editors, only a bad article. An article with a huge amount of extraneous text is more difficult to improve than a stub, because gangs of inclusionists will hit you with sticks if you try to take anything away :).
 * But, I can't be bothered to fight against the wikifallacy of eventualism in this case, since it will obviously upset you to move this article to list. So, you win. BillMasen (talk) 10:34, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Fresh Prince and Family Matters
In the article, it mentions a Family Matters episode where one of the characters noted the Carl Winslow character's resemblance to the Fresh Prince character Phillip Banks (Uncle Phil). I just wanted to point out that a long time ago, I saw an episode in Fresh Prince where they made a similar joke, in which one character said to Phil "Hey, I know you! Aren't you the guy from Family Matters?" in which Phil responds with a "No". Does anybody know what that episode is? Dark Rain —Preceding undated comment added 05:33, 2 April 2011
 * I found it. The episode is titled "Will Gets Commited". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dark Rain (talk • contribs) 04:33, 19 May 2012

Defintions of Crossover
Reading this article, I think the biggest weakness is the poor defintion of what a crossover is, especially in TV. Many of the examples provided are not crossovers at all, rather they are spin-off series. For example, NCIS:LA is a spin-off of NCIS, which in turn is a spin-off of JAG. The Finder is a spin-off of Bones. All these series' were developed in their 'parent' series. The Law and Order and CSI series' are in another class of spin-offs, which weren't so much developed within a parent series, rather the spin-off is conceptual - and by it's nature will lead to crossovers. A better term for this series is a 'TV franchises', maybe.

Truer crossovers are those which are not 'introduced' in one series or a part of a franchise concept. For example, truer crossovers would be like (1) Law And Order:SVU and Homicide: Life on the Streets; (2) CSI and Without a Trace; (3) NCIS:LA and Hawaii5-0; (4) ER and Third Watch; (5) CSI:NY and Cold Case etc. All these series are stand alone, yet have been linked through common characters. That, for me, is an important factor in what constitutes a true crossover.

Just my 5 cents worth but I feel having some kind of definition/typology for what a crossover really means would be good for this article to make better sense. Mari370 (talk) 02:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the need for better definition here. Crossover as a concept only makes sense in the context of canons, pantheons, copyrights, and other arbitrary list-defining terms. Perhaps what's needed is a discussion of the popular concept of crossover, where that term comes from, etc, before diving into a list that retroactively calls a bunch of material crossovers. Sterlingjones (talk) 20:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Possible notable examples
In the early 1970's, "The ABC Saturday Superstar Movie" aired some hour-long animated movies that included a few crossovers of animated cartoons shown on ABC. One notable episode, "Popeye Meets the Man Who Hated Laughter" (1972), included characters from several newspaper comics, including Popeye, Tiger, Blondie, Hi and Lois, Little Iodine, the Katzenjammer Kids, Quincy, Beetle Bailey, Maggie and Jiggs, The Little King, Snuffy Smith, and others.

Also, the 1991 ABC sitcom "Hi Honey, I'm Home" used the crossover idea as a premise. Each episode featured an actor or actress reprising a role from a classic sitcom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohanchous (talk • contribs) 00:59, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Sourcing
Overall, this article needs more citations to back it up or removal of editorializing.

For example, where does "As a way to further toy sales he devised the Secret Wars crossover" come from? This simply hangs as personal opinion of the contributor, and I'd like to delete it if no citation is forthcoming.

Likewise "though here he is satirized as being an inept and unfavorable antagonist, likely to parody Sean Connery's appearance in the 2003 film adaptation." It sounds great to me, and I'd love it to be true, but it's opinion.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelpremsrirat (talk • contribs) 04:04, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 5 April 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. &mdash;  Music1201  talk  23:12, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

– As noted in an above section, this title doesn't make sense, or at least is misleading. The crossovers themselves are not fiction (cf. "Fictional character"). I know WP:NATURAL disambiguation is preferable, but this looks like a shoehorned, unnatural attempt at it. The video game article could alternatively be moved to Gaming crossover, which is used in its lede. I would support that or my recommendation above. --BDD (talk) 17:01, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Fictional crossover → Crossover (fiction)
 * Fictional crossovers in video games → Crossovers in video games
 * Support – or perhaps Crossover in fiction. – nyuszika7h (talk) 17:13, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support, but I think Crossovers in fiction would be better. "Crossover in fiction" sounds slightly wrong to me somehow, almost as if it's saying that "Crossover" is the name of a specific thing. —Flax5 17:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Similar to the problem with the current name, I'm concerned that either "in fiction" alternative sounds too much like we're talking about fictional depictions of a real-world concept (e.g., "Dogs in fiction"). --BDD (talk) 19:58, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Good point. How about Crossover fiction (which was created as a redirect to this page in 2006, and seems not to have been evaluated since)? I think it states the topic just as clearly as Crossover (fiction), and without having to resort to disambiguation. Also, Category:Fictional crossovers should probably be moved to whatever is decided on here. —Flax5 20:49, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I could definitely live with that. --BDD (talk) 14:19, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support move; any of the suggested alternatives would be an improvement. Goldenshimmer (talk) 00:54, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support crossover fiction, but the proposed title is an improvement too.--Cúchullain t/ c 15:34, 13 April 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Steven and the johnny's?
When did this happen? cause i keep searching it and it didnt appear and if there was a crossover I'm sure everyone who watches Steven universe would know Jstar367 (talk) 04:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It appears to be a hoax, as there are absolutely no Google search results for "Steven and the Johnny's" apart from Wikipedia and sites that mirror it. Thanks for noticing that. nyuszika7h (talk) 08:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Seems like it was added in this edit back in May and the next editor,, who is presumably not familiar with these shows, made a copy-edit to it. nyuszika7h (talk) 08:44, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Earliest film crossover
This page currently lists "Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man, in 1943" as the earliest film crossover. What of the character Lee Chan (Mr. Chan's son in the Charlie Chan series) in the 1938 film Mr._Moto's_Gamble based in the Mr. Moto series 76.220.73.160 (talk) 04:28, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if the Lee Chan example would count, as I haven't seen those films, but if having a character from one film show up in another counts as a "crossover", an even earlier example would be The Testament of Dr. Mabuse (1933), a sequel to Dr. Mabuse the Gambler (1922) which incorporates a character from M (1931 film). —Flax5 14:34, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

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Early animation examples
The article tries to cast the New Scooby-Doo Movies as some of the earliest examples of animation crossover. However, crossovers had been happening much earlier theatrically (such as all those Bugs Bunny versus Daffy Duck shorts), and even Hanna-Barbera had started at least a decade earlier, with Yogi Bear appearing in "Swedish Visitors", a 1963 episode of The Flintstones. (I'm going to discount Popeye the Sailor (film), as that Betty Boop cartoon is the first appearance in animation of Popeye, although he was developed separately in the papers and would obviously become a separate film property.) --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:59, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Obscure main image
"Ivan Tsarevich and cameo appearances of Pepper and Carrot in episode 4 of Morevna Project."

I have no idea what any of that is. Meanwhile way down the article we have an image from King Kong vs. Godzilla, two film characters that I would argue have near-global recognition. Why not swap them? --80.42.117.157 (talk) 23:29, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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