Talk:Crowded House/Archive 1

Post Crowded House Careers?
Should this now be renamed to reflect that it is a period of time between the original end of the band & the reforming??

Vandalism
Right, so people are constantly changing this article to either New Zealand group or Australian group, probably depending on which side of the Tasman they are from. Needless to say, this is stupid, and every time I see it, I change it back. So if it's you (however unlikely it is that a vandal will read a talk page), please STOP! You won't win. Willnz0 09:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Album pages next
Okay, I'm pretty much done. However, there are still the album pages that have not yet been created. I'll get to them as I have time, but anyone else can feel free to jumpstart the process. Shigpit 12:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

AUS or NZ??
While Neil Finn was born in NZ, he was living in Melbourne when Crowded House were formed and the other two original members were born in Australia - this should justify them as an Australian band. However Mark Hart was born the US and Peter Jones was born in the UK. At one stage (late 1994) Crowded House consisted of: one member born in Australia (Nick), one born in NZ (Neil) one born in UK (Peter) and one born in the US (Mark).
 * I'm quite happy with the way it is at the moment ie Australiasian band, and country in the box listed as both. Willnz0 01:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that the important thing is where the band started not where the lead singer was born. No-one considers INXS a Canadian band because of that new singer or Cold Chisel to be Scottish because Barnesy was born in Scotland. John Butler was born in the US (even has the accent) yet JBT are considered an Australian band. Why should Crowded House be any different? --Mdhowe 01:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I personally think it should be New Zealand (based on the fact that Neil Finn, their principal songwriter, is a New Zealander), but I recognise that there were also members from Australia so I think it's acceptable to have it listed as Australasian - which is certainly true. We don't need to be more specific than that. Willnz0 03:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Calling it an Australiasian band is a bit stupid IMO. Why not call it an Australian based band, or a band formed in Australia. Just like the AC/DC article, AC/DC isn't a Australian Celtic Band. Jabso 04:59, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * How about a band with Australian and NZ members? pfctdayelise

(translate?) 05:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * How about "Formed in Australia and led by NZ Musician Neil Finn"
 * Actually, I like that idea, as it provides more information while still being accurate. If no one objects within a few days I'll change it. Willnz0 07:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Couple of issues
I'm not going to change them yet, but I have a couple of issues with some of the information in this article.
 * 1. I wouldn't describe Crowded House as a 'rock' band,
 * 2. Is WWY Byrds influenced? Even if we decide it is, should such a statement really be in the opening paragraph of an article? It would be better to have it in the influences section.
 * 3. The 'farewell to the world' concert shouldn't be listed as it is. At the moment it makes it look as though this is an album due to the layout (the other six headings in that section are all albums). Maybe there should be a new 'tours' section? Willnz0 01:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * What about "locked out" that can described as rock (there are at least a few others).--Mutley 10:30, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I agree, they certainly have some rock-sounding songs, but that doesn't necessarily make them a rock band. I'm gonna change it to rock / pop, for the moment at least. Willnz0 05:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Can you simply change the country then from New Zealand to Australasian??

Aus/NZ charts
Someone should add the australian and new zealand chart positions to the singles discography
 * Yes 'someone' should. Any takers? Willnz0 09:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

US charts
Looks like there were more US singles released than what's listed? See the singles section at: http://www.etext.org/Mailing.Lists/house/ch-discography.html

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.18.129.128 (talk) 14:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

More Background on the Portsmouth Sister Madly Recording
I was at the Portsmouth Guildhall concert mentioned in the article and afterwards a couple of us headed back to the kitchen to say hello, after a maze of tunnels we found the signs marked "Catering Disaway" in a font just like on the cover of Woodface. There was only one staff member left and she helped us to the exit, just as Neil Finn and Nick Saymour also departed, to go and meet the folk who'd gone around the back of the guildhall to wait. Whilst Nick and Neil mingled and chatted, there was no Paul Hester. In passing I asked Neil where he was and he mentioned that he was on the phone to his missus and alluded to the recent birth of his daughter, suggesting that touring was the last thing he really wanted to be doing. I recall they were on a very tight schedule because the "locked out" video had to be recorded the next day, 200Kms away, somehere near Port Talbot in South Wales. Thinking back, I got the set list too, perhaps I'll dig it out and scan it... --Ear1grey 21:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Farewell to the World
No mention of the live album coming out soon. http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-World-Crowded-House/dp/B000G8NW6K/sr=8-1/qid=1162989550/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9023002-6488051?ie=UTF8&s=music

POV?
Is this segment "Hester had clearly been disenchanted for some time, if you listen to the live version of 'Sister Madly' that came with the limited edition 'Recurring Dream' (recorded at Portsmouth Guildhall on the 'Together Alone' tour) it's clear that something is troubling him. Although they finished the tour with session drummer Peter Jones, Neil's heart was not in the work." compliant with WP:NPOV standards? I don't think so. Feel free to discuss. Aldango 05:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree--it's POV, and it's unsourced. Can someone attribute these opinions to a published source? If not, I'd like to rewrite that pair of sentences. DoorsAjar 19:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Sentence not about CH
I removed a sentence from the CH subsection of History: "The Māori-strum-rhythm was also used for the song "Alta Marea", by the Italian singer-songwriter Antonello Venditti." Many songs have used a "Māori strum" rhythm. Unless "Alta Marea" was described in published sources as influenced by DDIO, I wouldn't consider it relevant to the article. Opinions? DoorsAjar 20:23, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Crowded House-Woodface (album cover).jpg
Image:Crowded House-Woodface (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Crowded House-Together Alone (album cover).jpg
Image:Crowded House-Together Alone (album cover).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Infobox images
If you add a new image to the infobox, then please move old images to a different part of the article so they aren't "lost". .--Mutley 05:39, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Good article nomination
An excellent job. Thoroughly researched, tastefully illustrated, and intelligently written. It reflects a deep understanding of the band without suggesting a one-eye devotion to them. The use of redirects to related articles is welcome, particularly in an article of this length. It certainly rates as an example of a good Wiki article. Grimhim 12:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, we have taken one step forward and two steps back. We've got the GA, but we have been tagged for references. I've thoroughly gone through the history and bio info to reference as much as possible, but have yet to do so for the style section. I'll get to that. Oh well, at least it'll make matters easier for getting to WP:FA when we get around to that. -- linca linca  13:24, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed, that's the best way to look at it. Let me know if I can help with anything.  The Rambling Man 13:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it looks like they've done a transcript for the Denton episode, so that's cool. A more reliable source, now! I'm working on getting more sources, but mostly, the history section seems to be done. Would you mind fact tagging anything you feel isn't addressed, TRM? Thanks. I'm off to bed! -- linca linca  13:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia (and this article indirectly) was mentioned during the Denton Episode as well --Mutley 09:23, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Some issues
This article doesn't quite satisfy all the criteria. The first issue is with images. The logo needs an expanded rationale (see WP:FURG). Image:Ch temple sleeve.jpg is not appropriate for use in this article, nor are any of the album covers listed in the image gallery. The copyright tag (which they are all accurately tagged with) states that it is only appropriate to use those images to illustrate the audio recording in question. For the purposes of GA (and perhaps all of Wikipedia articles), it is only appropriate to use album cover art in the article of that album.

Another issue is references. The article isn't poorly referenced, but it could use some additional citation. Chart placement, for example, should be referenced. Additionally, citations need to be to reliable sources that verify the claims made in the article. Leading to the main page of a website that mentions nothing regarding the topic of the article is not appropriate. Each reference should also include all available information listed at WP:CITE.

Please take the time to address these issues and bring the article up to GA standards. If you have any questions, feel free to drop by my talk page. Lara ♥Love  02:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Lara
 * Thanks for your review of the article. I agree that generally, it would be superfluous to include images that cannot be simply discussed, but the reason that these images are displayed as a gallery (though, not using the wiki-gallery format; I'm not a fan) is to show the viewer/reader a cmparison side-by-side to display the commonness and dis-similarities that applies between each cover, as, unlike many artists, the artwork is a crucial part of who the band is, not as crucial as the music, but coming in a close third, following the synergy of the grup. This is something that's directly referenced and frankly speaking, it's not good enough to separate the images forcing the reader to "take your work for it" that there is an affinity between the artiworks in question. For accessibility, it's much more approrpriate that the images be placed together for the direct access for comparison. The fair use rationales provided more than satisfy the necessary guidelines (i.e. international copyright guidelines, the unnecessary application of US Copyright guidelines and even passes the requirements of WP:FURG, and though the latter two are conformed within the use in this article, ultimately they're unneccesarily so, as the International Copyright law is what applies to items that are subject to Australian copyright law, but nevertheless, even still, these easily pass FURG). I'm sorry if I come across as terse or discivil. It's not my intent, but I am firm in my position on the matter. As to the image of the band from the sleeve of Temple of Low Men, I really don't know why I haven't taken it out sooner. It hasn't really ever served any urpose on the article, and so I will remove it, though I do intend to replace it with another image from the same era, so for now, I'm just going to quote it out (not that that would concern you, I imagine).
 * One thing I need to ask about is this: Leading to the main page of a website that mentions nothing regarding the topic of the article is not appropriate.. Which reference does this? I'm more than happy to amend/replace/remove as necessary where the reference is null/void/inaccurate/nonexistent. -- linca linca  11:05, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Recurring mention of Eddie Vedder
Someone keeps editing that Eddie Vedder sang backing vocals on "Everything Is Good For You". He didn't and there's no documented evidence to prove otherwise. Iarlafrenz 20:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Check the sleeve and the music video. It's even mentioned in the book "Something So Strong".

I'm looking at the sleeve - He doesn't sing on it. It's not mentioned in the book "Something So Strong", and the reference attributed to it in Wikipedia is erroneous. It's not mentioned in that article. The flip side of "Everything Is Good For You" in some markets was a live recording of the Split Enz song "History Never Repeats", performed by Pearl Jam with Neil and Tim Finn - but regardless of any other musical relationship between Neil Finn and Eddie Vedder - Eddie Vedder did not sing backing vocals on "Everything Is Good For You" Iarlafrenz 04:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Which sleeve are you looking at? The one for Recurring Dream? It's clearly there. He's listed right after Paul Hester being listed as playing drums (which isn't with the others because he didn't consider himself a band member any more by then). The standard practice if an item of information is disputed on Wikipedia is to place a tage next to it indicating that citation is needed. This can be done using the tag fact. If the fact cannot be referenced within seven days, you're within your right to remove it, but I can provide about 5 references to this, some audio, some written and I even have a photo of Vedder and Finn in the studio togetherfor the song's recording. I also have a newspaper clipping at home from an article about it where it was first announced that Vedder would appear on the song (it's from the Daily Telegraph in 1996, but I still have the clipping at home, somewhere). linca  linca  03:08, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Former members vs Former Additional Musicians
I was a full member of the band from day one, Neil and Paul were very explicit about it and I would not have been interested in joining as just a hired hand. The name change was irrelevant, all other histories, both official and unofficial, list me as an original member. Rather than edit it myself I thought I'd ask Lincalinca to either justify that decision or to correct the recent change.

Craig Hooper 12:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm somewhat in awe that you'd edit here. I'm happy to adjust your position. The reason I didn't list you as a full member was that you're listed as a full member of The Mullanes and that was the way I understood it to be. Just from curiosity, is there any chance you can indicate anything more about yourself for me to put onto your article? Anything else you can add to the mix also? (A photo of yourself, especially with the band, licenced under Creative Commons would be fantastic, if I'm not over-reaching the mark). Thanks for the info. I'll update accordingly. -- linca linca  04:57, 28 August 2007 (UTC)