Talk:Cruella de Vil

De Vil.
It should be renamed Cruella De Vil, as opposed to de Vil. It's spelled this way and most all promotional stuff. Scream4man (talk) 04:17, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * This is so. Disney itself spells it with a capital D all over its website:, , , , , etc. It's also capped at the Disney Wikia , which I don't believe we can cite here but which is in keeping with how Disney has it. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:10, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * It is also capped at the Encyclopedia Britannica: .--Tenebrae (talk) 22:31, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 26 April 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: This RfC was closed because the initiator withdrew it. Another editor added a line to the lead clarifying that there are two accepted spellings, with the lowercase "de" in the original source novel. Here is the entire RfC discussion. -- Tenebrae (talk) 16:03, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Cruella de Vil → Cruella De Vil – Disney itself spells it "Cruella De Vil" in an overwhelming number of instances on its website, including those five examples in the post above, as does the admittedly unofficial Disney Wikia and the admittedly authoritative Encyclopedia Britannica. (All linked in the post above.) The American Film Institute also spells it with a capital "D" in its list "AFI's 100 Years…100 Heroes And Villains". The popular press spells it both ways, so the arbiter should be the property's owner itself, which is Disney. Tenebrae (talk) 22:36, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:54, 26 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Support: Sources indicate it is spelled with a capital "D". DaltonCastle (talk) 02:08, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. The name is usually spelled "De Vil", and I don't see anything in MoS that would prevent this move.  ONR  (talk) 04:23, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose per MOS:NAMECAPS. The example mentioned there is John de Balliol, with a lowercased "de", and we should follow that as our house style, especially if usage in popular press is split, as mentioned by . The "property's owner" is not an arbiter, and does not trump house style where common name is already satisfied, per WP:OFFICIALNAME. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 10:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, WP:OFFICIALNAME is just an essay, which anyone can write on Wikipedia; they're just discussions and carry no weight. I don't believe an essay should trump the objective reality of how a character's creators spell a fictional name. An encyclopedia that's at odds with every other reference source, including but not limited to the Encyclopedia Britannica, over arbitrary house style isn't really a very useful or authoritative encyclopedia.--Tenebrae (talk) 12:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:OFFICIALNAME is an essay which explains one of our policies (namely WP:COMMONNAME), and is usually used to remind people that we have no preference for official names when deciding our titles, even though contributors to move discussions often believe that we do prefer them. As such, although it is only an essay, its message is one of policy. And also, I personally feel that having a consistent house style is a good thing, and adds to our prestige rather than detracting from it. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 14:59, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * With all respect, we can find essays saying anything we want. I'm not sure how WP:COMMONNAME applies here, since we're not saying we want Bill Clinton to be "William Jefferson Clinton." But if you want to cite it, the common name is Cruella De Vil according to every major source. Having Wikipedia deviate from this common reality, including the Encyclopedia Britannica, really isn't in our credibility's best interest.--Tenebrae (talk) 20:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose I just spent a few minutes looking for the original text of the book online, and the two sources I found spell it as de Vil. [] scroll over a few pages.  [] scroll down to page 8.  The only other argument I think makes sense is that Disney took the de Vil and changed it to De Vil (you can draw your own conclusions as to why - but it was 1961), which means the book's article should technically have it one way, and the film's article the other way.Timtempleton (talk) 15:50, 5 May 2016 (UTC)


 * If it's "de Vil' in the book, then I'd like to withdraw this RfC. I do note that the lead here now says "(spelled de Vil in the novel, spelled De Vil by Disney)", so that seems to cover the issue. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:24, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose per: A) Nom has rescinded the proposal; see immediately above. B) WP:COMMONNAME is not a style policy. It's the policy of "is the name 'Cruella de Vil' (however exactly styled) or 'Kruela da Ville' (however exactly styled) or 'Jimbob Vanderpantz' (however exactly styled)?" C) Usage is mixed, because the primary fictional sources and their (also primary) marketing materials are themselves mixed. When usage is mixed, prefer lower case, per MOS:CAPS, D) If this were a real human name, it would be "de Vil", absent a clear insistence on the part of the subject to spell it 'De Vil", and most of the RS honoring that. While this is a fictional character, I don't see any rationale for treating it as "magically different" (cf. WP:COMMONSENSE and WP:CONSISTENCY).  If all the fictional sources and marketing materials used "De Vil", we would go with that, for the same reason we'd go with that spelling if it were a real person who always used that spelling. This, too, is already covered at both MOS:TM and MOS:CAPS: If an overwhelming proportion of the sources agree on an unusual spelling, go along with it here (thus iPod and Deadmau5), but do not if usage is strongly mixed (thus Pink (singer) and Sony, not "P!nk" or "SONY").  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  11:45, 13 May 2016 (UTC)


 * And to reiterate, I've asked to have the issue over the name of the article withdrawn, but common sense indicates we note the different spellings parenthetically in the lead, as is currently being done.--Tenebrae (talk) 14:49, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Why can't you just withdraw the nomination by blanking this section out? Or do you want this to stay here for future reference? Rovingrobert (talk) 10:53, 20 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ariana grande
Cruella de vil 2600:1700:9F60:2CE0:60C6:4CCD:226F:5A (talk) 22:10, 10 July 2022 (UTC)