Talk:Cruising (maritime)

Title for article
There has to be a better title for this article. When I saw it, I thought it was about something else entirely (driving up-and-down the boulevard). As is, this article is begging to be disagged (if articles could beg, of course). -- Two Halves who is not logged in again

And in this form it's more an article for wikitravel.org than for the wikipedia. Guaka 00:28, 24 Sep 2003 (UTC)

The link is from sailing and I don't know of any other term than cruising. This article is very full of info but IMHO could use some editing to make it easier to read, just headings and such. There are also some sections that could be added; quarantine, piracy, more communication info, finance. A link to wikitravel.org would be cool too. Sound good? Colin Carr 15:59, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

The article reads like a magazine piece, rather than an unbiased entry. Many of the items in the "generally agreed upon" list of tips and tricks aren't actually agreed upon. There are sharp differences of opinion even among the cruising experts listed in the section on additional references.

Joy Stovall 00:03, May 20, 2004 (UTC)

Monohull/Multihull POV
I removed this:

"Get a strong monohull. Have it surveyed before you buy it, and tell the surveyor you plan to go offshore. Pick a boat that probably would not be harmed if run aground, because most yachtsmen do this (wince) at least once. Multihulls kill their crews by capsizing in storms.  They cannot be righted by their crews, who generally die of exposure.  Monohulls in the same situation are usually dismasted, but turn right-side up.  The crews cut away the rig, jury-rig a mast and sail home.  This is frightening, difficult and expensive, but not fatal."

Multihulls today are just as safe as monohulls. While it's true that if flipped, they won't self-right, they do float, even upside-down. The running joke between staunch multihullers and their monohull counterparts is that "Multihulls reach ultimate stability when upside down. Monohulls reach it when resting on the ocean floor." Joyous 19:22, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

Encyclopaedic Style
I agree, Joy. I would fix it, but my knowledge of the subject is less than useful. We need an experienced sailing Wikipedian - any takers? - Rissa 03:04, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Non-problems
I removed this from the 'Problems' section:

"Getting money from a distant bank can be painful, sometimes taking up to 3 weeks for a check or letter-of-credit to clear. It helps to be in a large city, and bank at a large bank in a famous city of your home country.  Get money no more often than every six months, as small, $10 traveler's checks.  Perform haul-outs, bottom painting and other maintenance while waiting for the money.  Also, plan to wait somewhere pleasant and inexpensive."

It seemed unduly negative and a bit US-centric. We had no problem cruising Europe and the Caribbean with credit cards in 1999-2000 and it must be easier still now. - Nigelj 17:27, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

US-centric?
I'm not sure we need a 'Cruising destinations in North America' section in this article at all - let alone right at the top. Maybe it should be the start of a whole series of new articles. What would it be like if we had such a section for every part of the world? England, France, Carribbean, Indonesia... with everybody's favourite gunkhole listed and described? Chaos, in this overview I think. --Nigelj 11:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The overview is messy. Agree with Nigel that separate article are the way forward ie Carribbean (cruising),  France (cruising) etc  Boatman 10:34, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

lacking NPOV
This article is wonderfully exhastive, but does not show the required NPOV. I agree that geographic-area-specific articles would be a good idea. I furthermore agree that the greater bulk of this article belongs in a more appropriate forum such as Wikitravel.

Working and living aboard boats long-term now has shown me that, as wonderful as the cruising community is, there is NO general or majority consensus on most of the subjects discussed in this article. Fellow cruisers reading this article will be able to parse through and take what they will, but it will be a tough go for the neophyte looking for a to-the-point description of "this cruising thing" that they've heard about.

Frankly, i'd love to dive in and strip this article of all subjectivity, but living on a boat in the tropics with limited internet access makes that difficult... Osteoderm 22:22, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok. I re-wrote the initial sentence. That's a start, right?  You know, there's more than just the POV/opinions issue--the tone is breezy and overly casual.  Some parts sound like one of Fatty Goodlander's pieces in a sailing magazines  Joyous | Talk 01:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup!
As a cruiser myself, I love that there's a cruising article, and appreciate the work that's been done to get it started. But I think it needs cleanup, and it needs to conform to Wikipedia policy. Yes, I'm volunteering to help, and I have some photos to contribute too!

As I see it, I think that means getting rid of the list of tips, because that is original research, as I see it. To justify keeping this, we would need to cite external sources for (a) the tips, and (b) the fact that these are in fact the tips for cruisers. In other words, we need to document a phenomenon which is "out there", which is not the same as writing a "how-to" guide.

So, what should we see here? I've had a stab already at something similar in single-handed sailing. I absolutely do not believe that that is the perfect article (and comments are welcome), but I think the concept is reasonable — talk about what it is, the history (mention Hal Roth and the Pardeys, for example), techniques that people use, etc. — to the extent that we can cite sources for everything.

Comments? — Johan the Ghost seance 23:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Like you, I can't see a way to salvage the list of tips. People argue over stuff like that in bars all over the world--it's not appropriate to have the list her as though it's definitive.  Joyous | Talk 00:03, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with Joy. There will always be opinions and disagreements over opinions and tips.  This article needs to be confined to facts in order to conform and be useful.  External links can be  used to illustrate tips etc  Boatman 09:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Stuff like this is useful — just like poetry is useful — but Wikipedia is not the place for anything original. I think we can refer to stuff like the Pardeys' books, or Tristan Jones, for really basic stuff, like "it is recommended by respected writers on the subject that crew remain tethered on night watch[1][2]", or whatever; but in its present form, this is dead against Wikipedia principles, IMHO.  It would be great to have it moved to a cruising website, where it can be debated and adjusted ad infinitum.  It looks to me like WikiCruising would be perfect! — Johan the Ghost seance 11:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Forgive me, Jimbo, but I have Been Bold. I removed the giant list o' tips, just to get an idea of what is left. If anyone wants to move the stuff to WikiCruising, have at it!  Joyous | Talk 12:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Way to go, Joyous — unfortunately, the Problems section looks like more tips to me, and if we kill that right now there won't be much left! (Maybe that's the way to go — the first sentence sets the right tone! ;-)  I'm going to start hacking some more content in here when I've finished a couple of other things, but feel free to get at it yourself.  If we can gather source citations for stuff, that will make it a lot more authoritative — I have "Cruising in Seraffyn", but not their other books; and Jones's "One Hand for Yourself", and "Single-Handed Sailing" by Henderson. — Johan the Ghost seance 13:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

--- Added "Dragged Aboard: A Cruising Guide for the Reluctant Mate" to reccommended books section. Remove link to Cruise

The pre-cleanup version of the article

Request to Move to WikiCruising
I've created a Wiki dedicated to maritime cruising at WikiCruising. It's a for-profit venture, but will remain a free and open Wiki forever (under a CC Wiki license). I'd be willing to host and maintain all of this content if no one is doing so here.

Townsnda 19:32, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

--V. Joe 03:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC) Is it entirely necessary/NPOV to mention the William F. Buckley article with "not a shade of politics?" Buckley is a known crusiser, and whatever his political persuasion, it is not quite relevant to his cruising expierence. I am not an expert on sailing, but I am a long term Buckley reader. WFB is quite able to seperate his political life and his hobbies.


 * Although he certainly makes political quips from time to time in his cruising stuff. But I agree, and I've removed the comment.  — Johan the Ghost seance 10:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Johan...


 * Thought it may be of an interest to everyone that the aforementioned WikiCruising is non-active and CaptainWiki is the stomping grounds for anything Sailing Related that is out of the scope of WikiPedia. Articles like this Cruising (maritime) just leave you wanting more... and I don't think (tell me if I am wrong) Wikipedia is the place to put Cruising Guides and such. --Captainwiki 15:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The http://wikicruising.com/ link is still not working. CaptainWiki is using a very restrictive licensing - especially ND is somewhat restrictive for e.g. building a mobile version. Is there any better solution? ThomasDerflinger 19:50, 18 Feb 2008 (UTC)

Worth including
While this article mentionds Slocum as a cruising pioneer, it justs pretty far forward after that. Cruising as a lifestyle came to be before the Pardeys and Leonard/Starzinger and some of their predicesors are worth mentioning. It would be worth including in the History section people like Miles and Beryl Smeeton as well as Bernard Moitessier. Though really countless people could be mentioned, these particular yachties fill a time gap in the current artical and they also make it less USA centric (Smeetons are British and Monitessier is French).

Sailing re-organization effort
Take a minute to read the comments at Talk:Sailing#Re-write effort -- non how-to et seq. Some of us a working on re-organizing the sailing-related articles. See if you agree with our approach and give us some help. I think deletion of Blue water sailing fits with the plan. Cruising (maritime) can suffice. What do you think? Mrees1997 19:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Furthur Reading and Links
I think both of these sections need work. Furthur reading is too long considering the size of the article. I have removed some listings already, particularly some that may belong in a Navigation article, and some multipul listings of books by the same author. A prolific cruising author I think it would be best to just list their one most prevelent book and make room to list examples of others. I think this list should try to include books only directly about cruising itself, a book for instance on weather and only weather, or navigation and only navigation does not belong in the crusing article, neither would an book on sail trim for instance or deseil engine maintence. I of course have my own opinions on what books would be ideally listed here, but dont want to force my thoughts on that.

As for links, I have been removing a few links to personal websites, there is thousands of those out there, and already some websites linked here have lists of such websites. About half the listed websites I think could be replaced by better ones, but I am holding off on that edit at the moment. Russeasby 00:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Clubs
Perhaps some clubs helping out to provide/assist personal cruising (eg by organising cruising trips or assisting people in setting up cruising vessels, ...) can be mentioned; a example is the worldwide organisation Brothers of the coast http://www.bocus.org/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.167.19 (talk) 16:34, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Weather vane systems
Can it be mentioned that, to indicate the direction of the wind, Weather vane systems are sometimes used, relaying the info to a indicator next to the compass ? Sometimes, the systems are even equipped with a anemometer and can calculate the real wind (thus not the apparent wind; which is real wind+wind of mevement on the boat). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.49.3 (talk) 08:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Automated boating
Perhaps a section can describe how a boat can be made "driverless" (similar to driverless cars). This system should compensate for currents, similar to the tempomaat 91.178.176.128 (talk) 10:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Help! In search for DR data.
I work with other historians on the origine of medieval portolan charts. The question how accurate dead reckoning (DR) navigation by sails could be is of overwhelming importance there. We could not find much historic date because most nautic historians supposed DR had the accuracy of the portolan charts from the same time. But that is in doubt.

I created a page with the DR data I found so far. If you have data or sources, please send it there or to its discussion page. Besides historians, it may be of interest to present sail navigators too. -- Portolanero (talk) 15:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Inappropriate person
I've added the template to this page, since it frequently uses the second person in some sections.
 * I have cleaned up the tone issue in the article. I just shudder when I see that. Dawnseeker2000   22:36, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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Sailing category Comment
I have removed the category from the article because: A) Cruising is not described using any one of these actions. B) Some cruisers do so with a power vessel requiring NONE of these actions. @User:D1gggg Regards,   Aloha27   talk  21:27, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This make sense, but it is also presented as form of Sailing at exact page.
 * TBH, I don't have interest in "Cruising" topic or at least not now
 * Cruising as Operation of vessels (and as way to spend free time) is very different from sailing. D1gggg (talk) 23:42, 24 October 2017 (UTC)