Talk:Cryoseism

Suggestion
Suggest using inline citations using cite web. – Chacor 10:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for feedback. -  SpLoT  / (talk) 10:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Good
Aside from cite web formatting, this article's a good start, though there were an excessive number of links in the second section. I did a minor copyedit and toned down the number of wikilinks. --Core des at 16:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * References in cite web done up. Now searching for other sources. -  SpLoT  / (talk) 09:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Conflicted
The article deals a lot about glacier-related phenomena, and then states that areas of permeable material (eg gravel) are most susceptible to cryoseisms. This seems to be, if not contradictory, then at least very confusing! Pikiwedian 18:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Article has some rough edges

This page is confused. Ice quakes exist, and involve cracking of ice under stress or accelerated sliding of glaciers - however, there's little to do with sudden melting or freezing in the process.

The idea of sudden freezing is unfounded, so far as I know. In fact, considerable heat has to be withdrawn from a volume to bring the process of freezing to completion, I doubt it can happen explosively even in theory. Similarly, considerable heat has to be added to fully melt some ice - it is not a runaway process.

Also, the ground doesn't contract when it freezes, it expands, in contrast to the claims of reference 2, which clearly has little authority.

For ground cracking to have intensity VI: ''VI. Strong	Felt by all; many frightened and run outdoors, walk unsteadily. Windows, dishes, glassware broken; books off shelves; some heavy furniture moved or overturned; a few instances of fallen plaster. Damage slight. '' I'd like to see some evidence, sounds very unlikely to me. The references on intensity of shaking are ancient by scientific standards - many from the back in the 1950s, where's the evidence from the greatly improved seismic networks and seismic data processing in the last decade? (John 05:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC))

The reference to frostquakes in Southern Ontario during December 2013 is lacking authority. Reports made by people who don't know what a frostquake is are being classified as frostquakes by other people who don't know what phenomenon is being described in the reports. The logic is "A big wind took a tree down in my back yard." "Sounds like it could have been a tornado." News headline "Tornado blamed for wind damage." Even worse, Wikipedia is now being cited as verification that these indeed were frostquakes, where wikipedia cites the speculative news reports. (User:Eric Tittley 14:45, 8 January 2014 (UTC))

AFD
This page needs at least an overhaul. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vidale (talk • contribs) 23:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Have you read our Deletion policy? It's unlikely this will be deleted. Improve, don't destroy. – Chacor 02:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please be civil about it. AFD is not a cleanup tag; if you think it should be cleaned up, put a cleanup tag on it. Sending it to AFD is the wrong thing to do here. --Core desat  05:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It would be less work to start from scratch than modify this. Maybe if the author reads this and realizes cracking and sliding can be sudden, but the freezing and thawing are not on seismic timescales, he/she can take a pass at it. (John 05:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC))
 * And who are you to say reference 2 "clearly has little authority"? No one makes such judgements here. Doesn't matter if you're an expert on the subject or not. If it's relevant, and meets wikipedia policy, it's fine. Maybe you're looking for Citizendium. – Chacor 05:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Confusing, I didn't send anything to AFD, I didn't even know the term until I Googled it a minute ago. As for reference 2, if it says water contracts when it freezes, it is simply factually incorrect. I came to look at this entry because two grad students in my department asked me what is this thing "a cryoseism", which mainly exists in Wikipedia, so I'm trying to reconcile the entry with known geophysics. I took a quick pass at editing, so maybe you're all right that improvement is not so tough as I thought, and preferable. (John 05:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC))
 * Yeah, it is normally easier to cleanup by editing than trying to send something for deletion if it can be saved. Not sure where it says water contracts when freezes, though, the only reference I find to contraction is "the cracks are caused by the ground having contracted rapidly due to the sudden cold". No mention of water... – Chacor 05:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I guess I overreacted - the original beginning - merging of glacial ice quakes and frost cracking - was my main objection. The sentence you quoted is the source of my irritation. As the other references state, it is the difference in volume between water and ice that is the main force involved, the additional stress from simply temperature change is probably negligible, and present whether the ground is hot or cold. Now that I read the edited version, it is actually fairly interesting. I'd delete my negative remarks above, but presume leaving an unedited trail is the norm around here. (John 05:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC))


 * As so-called main author of this article, I'd like to comment a little. Firstly, let me make clear that I am not an expert in geology or tectonics. Therefore I am unable to answer the many queries that pop up in this discussion. I wrote the article with no prior knowledge of the phenomenon at all, and I hope that other editors and readers can understand why that 'confusing' tag is up there. If any editor finds any troubling or obviously factually inaccurate information in the article, feel free to change it as necessary. Please, if you are more knowledgeable about this comparatively obscure subject, remove, expand or rewrite as appropriate. I'd like to add that notability is vastly different from cleanup. I will keep this page watched now. Thanks for the heightened interest,  SpL o T  // 09:01, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest one source of confusion for this page is defining a cryoseism as a "frost quake", in the first sentence, and then including quite a different phenomena, the sudden glacier movement, as a type of cryoseism, in the 2nd paragraph. The two phenomena are quite different and distinct. For example - a lot of the text in the "Effects" and "Precursors" sections does not apply to a large range of glacier-related events. I would suggest a new page for "glacial earthquakes", as discussed for example by Ekstrom in their Science article (302, 622-624 (2003)). Your thoughts John ? Stephen 03:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Makes good sense to me. Separate discussions of frost quakes and glacial quakes, maybe with both referenced to cryoseisms.  Quakes in the soil and quakes in ice have little in common.  There is a new set of glacial quake observations coming from Wiens group at Washington U in St Louis from observations of Antarctic glacers as well as Nettles at Columbia looking at Greenland, which might be material to expand the glacial quake discussion soon.(John 06:02, 13 May 2007 (UTC))

Glacial actions in a number of states which don't currently have glaciers? This article still needs work. Williamborg (Bill) 02:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Update to include new areas on map
How do we get the map updated? Several documented occurrences in the news media today, February 10, 2011. http://www.whiotv.com/news/26824548/detail.html, and more that can be sourced. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.80.27 (talk) 04:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

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Etymology
Cryobiology contains
 * "The word cryobiology is derived from the Greek words κρῧος [kryos], "cold", ..."

and the Seismology article has
 * "from Ancient Greek σεισμός (seismós) meaning "earthquake" "

I find that having Etymology explained for articles is very helpful, but I'm not sure where to work this in; at the beginning, in a separate field, or where. But it would be helpful to have something like
 * "from the Greek words κρῧος [kryos], "cold", and Ancient Greek σεισμός (seismós) meaning "earthquake""

Anyone have the energy to format those two word pieces in somewhere nicely? --PolymathGirl (talk) 22:34, 1 February 2023 (UTC)