Talk:Cryptograms (album)/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer:  C  anniba loki  23:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Checklist
--  C  anniba loki  23:42, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Comments

 * Lead section
 * "Cryptograms is the second album from ambient and psychedelic rock group Deerhunter, released by Kranky Records on January 29, 2007 on CD and vinyl." Cryptograms is the second studio album by American rock band Deerhunter, released through Kranky Records on January 29, 2007.


 * "Deerhunter recorded the album over two day-long recording sessions months apart, after an earlier failed recording session." I can not give you a hint in this sentence, because it is very confusing.
 * I'll try to re-word it to be more clear, maybe by making it two sentences. The entire album was recorded over the course of two recording sessions.  Each was a day long, and the band took several months off in between the first and second session.  A year before these two sessions, which produced the final version of Cryptograms, ever happened, the band was working in the Rare Book Room.  This session failed.  You're right, that is kind of confusing.  Does my elaboration make any sense? --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "Cryptograms's two halves are musically distinct, the first being more ambient in nature, the second containing more elements of pop music." How two halves? It is like the sides of a LP album?
 * No context is given for why there are "two halves". I'll fix that. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * I've revised the entire lead to more clearly explain the two recording sessions and the record's two "halves". Hopefully it's now more clear. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * Recording
 * "Deerhunter first attempted to record their second album with acclaimed folk musician Samara Lubleski at Rare Book Room studios in New York." Why 'first attempted'? You should develop the history and not summarize it. Samara Lubleski or Lubelski?
 * Changed to Lubelski, "acclaimed" removed. I don't think I'm summarizing anything with this opening sentence.  In this section, the first paragraph describes the first failed recording session, while the second paragraph describes the second successful recording session. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 00:34, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * "Cox later described the results of these sessions as sounding like "if you listen to Loveless on mushrooms, and I mean that in not a complimentary way"." This quote sounds as if he had heard a strange album while drugged by a mushroom ov hell!
 * What do you want me to change? Would the reference to Loveless be considered too obscure? --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "In an interview with Pitchfork Media, Cox said that the music "still exists on a scratched CD-R under my bed", which "nobody will ever hear"." Irrelevant and not encyclopedic.


 * "Remixed 'tape collage' versions of the tracks were later released as free downloads on the Deerhunter blog." "Tape collage" is a jargon. I think this sentence is not necessary and sounds like promotion, even if is not your intention. It appears that invites the reader to search for songs on the band's blog.
 * I think someone else added the word "tape collage"; I can change that back. I don't see why noting where these old demos ended up (or noting that Cox had originally not planned to make them available) is irrelevant or encyclopedic.  If I remove "free" would it seem less promotional? --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "This time successful, the album was recorded in two parts: the first half was recorded over one day-long session, completely filling the reel of tape the band had brought with them."
 * In saying "this time successful", I'm saying these sessions actually produced material they used, unlike their earlier attempts. I don't see how that can be further clarified. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "The second half, recorded months later over a single day in November, begins with the song "Spring Hall Convert"."
 * In my searching while writing this article, all I ever found was that (1) the two sessions were months apart, and (2) the second one was in November. I'll try to find more exact dates. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "During this recording session Cox had the flu, and his congestion caused his voice on the album's pop tracks to sound "really weird…I always thought I would go back and redo them, but we never did."" Well, you finished the sentence with a quote from band's vocalist?
 * Should I call it influenza instead? Also, because I've been quoting Cox up until now, and that's been established, do I need to say it again? --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * Music and lyrics
 * "Cryptograms is more "subdued and introverted" than its predecessor, Turn It Up Faggot. Cox has shown much disdain for the band's debut album, saying, "I hate that album, I really do. I liked it when we did it, but we were a young band-- just really desperate to put something out-- and I don't think we were ready."" Another irrelevant quote. Many artists say they hate their first releases and define their latest as the best.


 * "The sound of Cryptograms is due in part to how the new record "developed out of different circumstances, altogether. There were a lot more intense personal things going on. It was less about anger and frustration and more just being stunned or spaced-out by everything", according to Cox." I think the opinion of Bradford Cox is too vague or abstract to be used to talk about the band's musical themes.
 * I think I can better substantiate Cox's contrast between TIUF and Cryptograms. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "With regards to the production of Cryptograms and Cox's own musical talent, he has insisted he has "no idea" what he is doing: "I like the record a lot and I'm very proud of it, but it would be pretentious and false for me to act like we had this vision from the beginning, because we didn't."" If Cox has "no idea" what he is doing, I have no idea why this sentence is in this article.
 * I think I'm just going to rework the whole first paragraph. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I've rewritten the first paragraph to hopefully better show Cox's contrast between the "angry" musical style of Turn It Up Faggot and Cryptograms. Its shorter, but I'll see what else I can add. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "Deerhunter's two recording sessions produced two halves of the album with distinct musical styles. The first half of the album is more ambient in nature, containing five ambient instrumental tracks, starting with the album's introduction, entitled "Intro" ."
 * Done. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "With the song "Providence", the band "tried to capture a certain [feeling of] solitude." The idea for the song came about when, while touring in Providence, Rhode Island Cox had an argument with other members of the band. Having left his bandmates, Cox "walked around Providence at dusk" feeling "totally alone", while admiring his "meditative" surroundings."
 * No date is given in the post that quote comes from although Cox notes it was on a tour leading up to the first recording session, which was sometime in 2005. I could maybe dig up their tour dates from 2005, but I don't know if linking a Rhode Island tour date to this post would be considered OR. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * For now I've noted it was during a 2005 tour. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "Cox has said that the band's greatest achievement with Cryptograms was "evoking a feeling of someone who's woken up after being strung out one too many nights…It's the feeling of being lovesick and very spaced-out."" What makes this sentence relevant to be used in a subsection about music and lyrics?
 * He's describing the sound he feels the band produced with their album, in an admittedly abstract way. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * Reception
 * "Cryptograms has seen fairly positive reviews since its release, earning a Metacritic score of 77." Irrelevant to the point of a cliché. Alternatively you can use the Template:Metacritic album.
 * How should I start the Reception section then? --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Metacritic line removed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * "Deerhunter followed up Cryptograms several months after its release with the extended play Fluorescent Grey EP. The two can be purchased together as a vinyl bundle from Kranky." What's that sentence has to do with the album's critical reception?
 * I'm not sure where else I'd put it, but I feel its relevant to include somewhere because its considered a sort of "accompaniment" to Cryptograms. Also, reading the second sentence, it reads kind of promotional. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * The note about the vinyl bundle removed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)

--  C  anniba loki  23:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the review. Working with you on Let the Blind Lead made that article way better. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 00:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Put "Spring Hall Conrter" music sample to the right
 * Done.


 * Try to start "reception" with something like "the critisism for cryptograms was generally good" or something
 * Change "other personnel" to "production"
 * Done.


 * Add more to production part of personnel (ie producer, executive producer, front cover, design, etc.)
 * Done.


 * De-link "dusted magizine" (included in 5th reference)
 * Done.


 * Are there ANY chart positions? Crowz  RSA  05:06, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Neither Deerhunter or Atlas Sound have charted outside the US (believe me, I've been through every international chart website), and they didn't make it onto any Billboard charts until Microcastle in 2008. I'll do some of the things you suggested, although this review has already been claimed... --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 05:37, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Second review
Second opinion started by shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 07:44, 19 February 2010 (UTC) Preface: I noticed a request for another reviewer at the GAN page. First up, I have no idea about Deerhunter nor their album Cryptograms so excuse any faux pas on the basis of lack of knowledge of actual content: I'll concern myself with reading the article as if I were a casual reader trying to find out about this topic. Secondly, if I repeat/contradict any criticisms already delivered by Cannibaloki I apologise: first reviewer has precedence.
 * Comments
 * Lead
 * 1) Does the Lead summarise the rest of the article? Are all claims in the Lead verified in the body of the article?
 * 2) As far as I can tell everything is, except perhaps the release date, so I've cited that with an existing reference. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 3) Specific readability problems here:
 * 4) "Following the release of their first full-length album Turn It Up Faggot," Following the 2005 release of their first full-length album Turn It Up Faggot,
 * 5) Changed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 6) "The final version of Cryptograms was recorded over two day-long sessions which were several months apart. This separate sessions produced the album's two "halves", which are musically distinct from each other. The first half includes more ambient music, while the second half contains more elements of pop music." The final version of Crytograms was recorded in two separate day-long sessions, months apart, resulting in two musically distinct parts—the first includes more ambient music while the second contains more pop music elements.
 * 7) Changed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 8) "Bradford Cox sang most of ..." Cox sang most of ...
 * 9) Changed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Recording
 * 1) "This recording session failed, due in part to the physical and mental state of Cox," This recording session failed, due in part to the physical and mental state of lead singer Bradford Cox,
 * 2) So you do reintroduce people after the lead? I always wondered that. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I do, my reasoning is that the Lead is a summary of the rest of the article. So if his full name is not given outside the Lead you can't use it in the Lead.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) ""if you listen to ..." Direct quote should be cited.
 * 2) I don't use an "every sentence" citation style. Everything between reference x and reference y is cited by reference y.  So here, these two sentences, which both contain quotes from Cox, come from the same article. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Okay, I can go with that.
 * 1) "after encouragement from members of the band Liars." Pardon my ignorance, what is the significance of Liars to Deerhunter? This has not been established by this point in the article.
 * 2) I actually don't know much of anything about Liars either, just that they're also Atlanta-based like Deerhunter, and that the two groups are good friends. I'll look into better explaining this, or remove it otherwise. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 3) I get the impression that Deerhunter supported Liars on a tour after the first attempt at recording this album had failed. If you find a reference for this then you can change "after encouragement from members of the band Liars" after encouragement from tourmates, Liars. in the Lead and in main text.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 03:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) Oh yeah, forgot about this. As far as elaborating on that statement, here's what Cox said in the Pitchfork interview:
 *  I think we would have broken up if it weren't for the Liars becoming friends with us and being really good advisers. I can't really explain the thing about Liars with us, but I can say that the way you feel really touchy about your family...I have more respect for them than anyone I've ever met playing music. They were really crucial to our staying together, which is why I talk about them. And I don't like the whole name-dropping aspect of it, talking about Liars all the time, but really, if you want to know the truth, they encouraged us to stick around and try something.
 * 1) The impression I got was that the members of Deerhunter just respect Liars and were willing to take their advice. Although Cox says "if it weren't for the Liars becoming friends with us", suggesting they became acquainted after the first failed recording session.  I don't know if the two groups have ever been on a long tour together, but I'm sure they've played shows together.  How about this for a revision?
 * Following the failed session Deerhunter returned to Atlanta. The group became acquainted with punk band Liars, who encouraged them to give the recording a second try. I can also add that the second session took place in the same Athens-based studio they did their first album in. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Also, I seem to be uninformed again. Liars have no association to the Georgia music scene. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 2) ""really weird…I always thought I would go back and redo them, but we never did."" "really weird […] I always thought I would go back and redo them, but we never did." The square brackets indicate that it is your ellipsis and not in the Cox original.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 07:44, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Changed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Music and lyrics
 * 1) I agree with comment about this section having too many quotes. Try to delete where possible: reduce by at least three-quarters and incorporate useful content within paraphrased text—still maintain good referencing. Furthermore, I now know that Cox is the band's leader & main songwriter but isn't there undue emphasis given to his quotes? I think there's only one other band member even mentioned in this section. Do the others assist in song writing at all? If they do, then this whole section could be non-neutral.
 * 2) As an example of reducing quotations, I'll rewrite the current first paragraph of this section:
 * Cox showed disdain for Turn It Up Faggot when promoting Cryptograms as being less angry and with a subdued musical outlook.[11][14] His Stylus Magazine interview described its development from sources other than post punk.[14]


 * I did some cutting out of quotes in the following ways:
 * In describing the sounds of instrumental track "Red Ink", Cox wrote that the band "tried to create the kind of atmosphere…where you have a dream that you have died and you understand the technical aspects of the death experience totally and it feels like reality". In the instrumental track "Red Ink", Cox and drummer Moses Archuleta worked to create an atmosphere in which the listener is dreaming he or she is dead and the experience of death feels like reality.
 * On the Deerhunter blog, Cox described two girls he knew from his school as one day being "bathed in this golden spring light in the hallway…[I] felt really close to them, like we were sisters." On the Deerhunter blog, Cox wrote of two girls he knew from his school as one day being "bathed in this golden spring light in the hallway". He described himself feeling as close to them as if they were his sisters.
 * It's a start; I'll do more later. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Currently trying to figure out how to dissect this quote into something less quote-ish. Any advice? The song was written "from the perspective of someone going in and out of consciousness during chemotherapy, and how they would miss their friends, their past experiences, and anything that reminded them of normalcy."
 * Try His lyrics describe how he felt moving in and out of consciousness while missing his friends and memories of normality
 * My version: The lyrics reflect the experience of someone moving in and out of consciousness during chemotherapy, while missing their friends and memories of a normal life. I figure, even if the song is about his experiences, the way he describes it here using the word "someone" makes it more third-person, so I didn't write "his memories" etc. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Yep, yours is better.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 08:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) "The first half of the album is more ambient in nature" The first part of the album is more ambient in style
 * 2) Changed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 3) "Cox had an argument with other members of the band. Having left his bandmates, Cox ..." Does this suggest Cox left the band? Needs rewording to avoid misinterpretation. Cox had an argument with fellow band members and walked through Providence to cool off ...
 * 4) "The second half of the album," The second part of the album,
 * 5) Changed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 6) "This track originates from a demo Cox first recorded in October 1998 when he was still a teenager.[16]" Which comes from a demo Cox first recorded in October 1998 when he was 16.[16]
 * 7) Changed, although I spelled out "sixteen" and changed the wording at the beginning a bit. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 8) "where he suspects he may someday return to die." where he believes he will return to die.
 * 9) I'd rather keep the uncertainty suggested by a "maybe" or "may" (or in this case "suspects"), because Cox's exact words are "I always figured I might go back there someday to die." --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Whole quote is "I was born in Athens at a house my dad built on a street called Heatherwood Lane, which my mom named. I always figured I might go back there someday to die. I like circles." In this quote he establishes his origins: both his father and mother then the "I like circles bit" becomes a return to the beginning which makes it a belief (in destiny/fate) rather than a suspicion.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Admittedly I didn't really understand what he meant by "circles".  Changed now. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Wikilink Lockett on first appearance in article (and later in Personnel section).
 * 2) Link'd. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 3) "reportedly came from a trip Cox ..." Why 'reportedly'? Aren't you paraphrasing Cox himself here? If you are then the adjective is redundant, if the claim of drunkeness/hangover is from another source then supply the ref. Be wary of use of the word 'trip' here: it may be confused with a drug/alcohol induced state.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 09:31, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) "Reportedly" removed. Although Cox was a drug user as a teenager, in this context I don't believe you can misinterpret the use of the word "trip": "a trip Cox took to the zoo". --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 5) New (minor) problem. "The song is was written by" The song was written byshaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 20:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Track listing
 * 1) "All lyrics written by Bradford Cox." Verify. Furthermore, who wrote the music? This is crucial to information in section: Music and lyrics and my comments above.
 * 2) Should be verifiable with --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:37, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Cox claims in a blog that he wrote the lyrics and then discusses what he thinks they meant. Is this a reliable source? I think you'll need a better source: is there anything at ASCAP? In any case, we still don't know who wrote the music which he admits inspired his stream of consciousness form of lyric writing. If the earlier section is going to discus Music and lyrics then it needs more input from the music makers not just lyricist.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Believe me when I say I've been all over the internet looking for interviews with this guy or this band. He is their spokesman, and does most all of the interviews.  Especially back in 2007, when Deerhunter was just really starting to become more prominent.  Now there have been more interviews with other members, or with the band as a whole.
 * I went digging and found this L.A. Record interview with the group's drummer from 2007. It's only got the slightest bit of usable content, however, which I'll integrate if/where I can.
 * And the blog is definitely reliable. Cox (mostly) maintains the blog, and it's where he puts up new music and other stuff.  It's also been linked to by major music publications when discussing the band.  As far as who wrote the stuff, I wouldn't want to give the impression that he alone had the vision for the band's music, and that shows in this blog post.  He notes when describing songs that "we wanted it to sound like", "Moses and I tried to create", etc.  He also notes that the song "Strange Lights" was written by Lockett, which I can add to the article.  As far as who wrote each song referenced in this article, I'll have to look more for that information, if it exists at all. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I did get the impression from the content in the Music and lyrics section that Cox did it all. A paraphrased description of the development of the music by other band members would help: a quote is not necessary. If "Strange Lights" was written by Lockett this needs to be indicated on the Track listing and the lead-in sentence should be modified to something like ... All tracks written by Deerhunter with lyrics by Bradford Cox except where shown. It should still have a citation, preferably from ASCAP?shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 20:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd never heard of ASCAP so I looked around, but I didn't find any mention of their music on this site. I'll add writing credits where I can. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I've added that L.A. Record interview, which gives you some talking by the group's drummer but unfortunately may not do much to help describe the band's sound. Although, noting that Cryptograms has been called psychedelic gives you some kind of picture of what the record sounds like. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Used BMI for 'Cox Bradford' and found 22 songs which appear to be for his solo/Atlas Sound release(s). Same output is credited to 'Atlas Sound' here. But no Deerhunter stuff? Meanwhile a song called "Fluoresent Grey" was written by Jimmy Lee Lindsay and performed by Jay Reatard according to ASCAP here. AllMusic here has the song given as "Fluorescent Grey (Deerhunter)" and composed by Bradford Cox! Is this is a cover version or just happens to have same title? In any case it belongs in Fluorescent Grey article not here: I'm just curious why no Deerhunter material appears to be registered with either BMI or ASCAP. You still need to find an independent reliable source for songwriters.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 01:26, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't know why; I'd assume because they're a small band on an independent label, but then that wouldn't explain why the Atlas Sound stuff is on there. Although, the credits for Atlas Sound are obvious; Cox did everything with a few exceptions (such as collaborations seen on Logos).  I'll look around, but I'm mostly convinced this information doesn't exist anywhere. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Delete all download links in this section: one sound sample already exists on the article. External links to other samples/actual files are not permitted. See Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files.
 * 2) Removed. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Personnel
 * 1) Wikilink any person with a wiki article.
 * Done, which is only Bradford Cox and Lockett Pundt (redirect to Lotus Plaza). --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * 1) Wikilink first mention of instrumentation in this section.
 * Done, although some of the instruments I either don't know what they are or am not sure if they have articles or not. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I've had a go. What do you think? If you don't like these then delete.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks fine to me; thanks.


 * 1) Is Bishop the producer as well as engineer? If so why is there no mention of production here?
 * Added role. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * 1) Is Colin Mee a band member? If so, why not in band's Navbox at bottom of article? While there wikilink any personel with own article.
 * I'm pretty sure he's a former member, but he was around when the group released this record. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Former members should still be in the Navbox.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll put him in along with the group's other former members.


 * References
 * Use Full date formatting in refs. Both for date and for accessdate: I expect you'd use the US date system.
 * Fixed as many of these as I could spot: needs checking by another's eyes.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 23:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait, since when was using 26 February, 2010 over 2010-02-06 a rule? I'm nearly positive neither takes precedent. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * See above wikilink. In particular read format consistency section: Dates in article body text should all have the same format. Dates in article references should all have the same format. These requirements apply to dates in general prose and reference citations, but not to dates in quotations or titles. Hope that nails it for you.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 06:04, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I had read that before, but I assumed it meant you must maintain consistency within prose and within references, but not both. Other articles I've worked on have used 28 February, 2010 while the references used 2010-02-28 and no problems have ever come up. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * 1) Allmusic is published by Rovi Corporation. Use
 * 2) Done byshaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs )
 * 3) Same url as ref 1! Goes to Allmusic article by Marisa Brown who rates album as 3 stars. Fix or delete as redundant.
 * 4) Done byshaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs )
 * 5) Only logo at top left/timed out error. Possible dead link? (see link check result below).
 * 6) Could be transitory: tried again later and it worked.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 18:49, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) Still working.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 00:08, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 8) Fix publisher. Use
 * Done. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Delink Bradford: already linked in refs. Same for any subsequent appearances.
 * Done. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Wayback Machine give failed connection. In any case, fix title: Deerhunter not Deehunter? Check if link is working later.
 * 2) Worked when tried again later.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 18:49, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) YouTube link? Delete, see download comment above.
 * 4) Same problem as ref 9?shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 11:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 5) This one still didn't deliver. Seems genuine dead link?shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 18:49, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 6) Still NOT working. Looks like this one has to go or be replaced by Archive copy?shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 00:08, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 7) I can't figure out which ref you're referring to since they all changed numbers I think. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 8) Never mind, I can use the link checker. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 9) I've fixed the Tiny Mix Tapes URL, although now I'm trying to reason out why I mention the publication twice in the same sentence. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * As for style problems consider:
 * 1) Infoboxes for albums are no longer to have Professional Reviews. See here—only a separate section titled Reception (which you've got) should be used.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 07:44, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Another infobox problem: check sequence of releases, shouldn't Fluorescent Grey be next?shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 19:08, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Not according to Template:Infobox album, which says different types of releases "(for most artists)" should have their own chronology. Here, just studio albums, of which there are 3/4.  Is this a case where the group's major releases are so few (4 albums, 2 EPs) that it would make more sense to have a unified chronology?  I suppose I don't have a problem with doing it either way. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I'll go with whatever you decide, just follow the pattern set by the related string of articles. When I do this sort of thing I include EPs, compilations and live albums together with studio albums all in chrono order. Whereas I keep singles on a separate string.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I'll just string together the records and EPs, and the two 7" singles that have articles for some reason can exist on their own. Oh, and the two split singles.  Those and the 7" singles can go together, because the splits are about singles length. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I went through the 4 albums, 2 EPs and as it turns out they were already set up in that combined chronology, and I was the one deviating. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) Sound samples are to be 30s or l0% whichever is less. See here. Thus "Spring Hall Convert" sample should not be more than 26.9s.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 11:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) The sample is actually completely faded-out by 26 seconds. I created the file in GarageBand, which added an extra four seconds of silence to the end of the track.  So technically you are only hearing twenty-six seconds of fair use music, but for the sake of adhering to NFCC I can trim it to its actual length if you want. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:47, 19 February 2010 (UTC) EDIT: I think I'll just do it instead of explaining my way around it.
 * Sounds good.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Finally did this; the sample is now 26-or-so seconds in length. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * Other problems
 * 1) link check. There are problems with some external sites.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 11:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Reception
 * 1) With deletion of Professional Reviews from the Infobox consider giving actual ratings per reviewer. When paraphrasing any review (or quoting when you must) try to give a balanced outlook: both positive and negative comments. Some trimming of each review/paragraph can be achieved by summarising.
 * 2) Example of summarising from first paragraph: "Pitchfork Media awarded the album the publication's "Best New Music" accolade, and later placed it fourteenth on a list of the fifty best albums of 2007.[6][20] Pitchfork staff writer Marc Hogan wrote that Cryptograms "is alternately murky...ethereal, amorphous and incisive", calling the second half of the album "vastly more accessible" than the first.[6]" Pitchfork Media acclaimed the album as its 'Best New Music', placed it fourteenth of 'Top 50 Albums of 2007'; while staff writer, Marc Hogan, described it as "alternately murky and ethereal, amorphous and incisive" with the second part having greater accessibility.[6][20]
 * 3) Jason Pierce? Julian Cope? If the quote is paraphrased they can be wikilinked.
 * I've reworded this to remove the references to the musicians while still hopefully retaining the meaning. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * 1) "The album placed high on lists of the best albums of 2007 of several publications, earning spots in the top twenty with Pitchfork Media, Tiny Mix Tapes, The Phoenix, and Drowned in Sound,[20][21][22][23] and placing fifth in a list of twenty-five albums put out by Tiny Mix Tapes.[21]" Seems to be repeating information from earlier e.g. Pitchfork listing it as one of its best album of 2007. This paragraph (and indeed the whole section) seems to give undue emphasis to the reception by Pitchfork with too many examples of why Pitchfork folk (of various stripes) like the album.
 * I'll remove the extra reference to Pitchfork's albums of the year as well as the user poll. Also, I removed the Metacritic score sentence per Cannibaloki's request, but what do you think?  I don't really see the problem. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)


 * 1) "Deerhunter followed up Cryptograms several months after its release with the extended play Fluorescent Grey EP." This sentenced is a sore thumb here. I'd move it to the end of Recording section with a better segue. Deerhunter followed up Cryptograms four months later with an extended play, Fluorescent Grey, which was recorded while Cryptograms was being mixed. With moving/renumbering of refs, Pitchfork Media might have to be wikilinked here (if first time in refs).shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 18:49, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Mention of the four-sided vinyl release will also tie these two together.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 04:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've moved the stuff about FGEP to the end of "Recording" with some more information about the release. I also re-added the part about the vinyl bundle while trying to make it sound less promotional. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I'll give this a tweak if you don't mind.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 20:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Not at all. I did two minor things, putting "dreamy" in quotes and adding "than ''Cryptograms" at the end to make the contrast more clear.  And I just feel a word like "dreamy" should be in quotes. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)

Thanks a lot for doing the review. Since it's the weekend I'll have time to work through this. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 21:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm very sorry, but I haven't had time to edit this week. I'll get some editing in tomorrow if I can. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 01:04, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Giving this review a quick skim, for my own reference I still have to:
 * Cut down on quotations
 * The "Music and Lyrics" section has been assessed by a third party as no longer being a quote farm. What do you think?
 * This section has definitely improved.shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 08:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Fix the music sample length
 * Done.
 * Figure out the writing credits
 * Still don't know about this. If Kranky didn't publish them and the major sites like BMI don't have them, where else will they be?
 * I had a look here but it only gives songs from Microcastle (onwards?) and only gives performed by and time per track but no songwriters. You'll have to go with AllMusic's review, which claims "Lyrics, courtesy of frontman Bradford Cox," So go for Music written by Moses Archuleta, Bradford Cox, Josh Fauver, Colin Mee and Lockett Pundt ; with lyrics by Cox except where shown. Use the Allmusic review as your ref. Next to any instrumental tracks write (instrumental). Next to those with lyrics written by others indicate so e.g. (lyrics by Pundt)
 * Done, although Cox wrote all of the lyrics; he says that the music for "Strange Lights" was written entirely by Lockett, not the lyrics. Also I just realized there are only four instrumental tracks and not five. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)
 * I've worked through all of the minor points, unless any more come up. I know this has been taking a while, so I'll try to have it done within the next few days.  I only have a week before I'm off on a school trip for another week. --gakon5 (talk / contribs)

Passed by shaidar cuebiyar ( talk | contribs ) 02:25, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the extensive review. --gakon5 (talk / contribs) 03:05, 7 March 2010 (UTC)