Talk:Cryptohistory

What IS Cryptohistory?
(moved from Category:Cryptohistory)

Could you please give a definition of Cryptohistory? Judging from the links, it looks like another word for Pseudo-history. If so, that is a more common term... and may already have a category.


 * Cryptohistory is, at root, elements of history that are not well-known. However, as history is not objective fact but a continuing dialectic discussing past events, cryptohistory is as much little-known theories as it is little-known "facts."  So while pseudohistory is basically another word for "bad history" (and is often demonstrably bad and in error) cryptohistory is simply the lesser-known elements of the historical record and dialogue.  There is, inevitably, some crossover between the two.  When I created this category, I intended it to be more "the history that you won't find in a history classroom," while pseudohistory is more "historical claims that have been shown to be false or misleading."  That clear things up? Joshua BishopRoby 22:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Also... I am not sure that History of Freemasonry should be listed here. While the article does briefly discuss some of the Pseudo-historical (Cryptohistorical?) theories about its origins, most of the article is based on fully documented historical fact and records. Nothing cryptic about it. Blueboar 00:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * This is nonsense conspiracy theory posing as a legitimate category. Is there anyone who wants to defend it or should it be listed for deletion soonest?--Cberlet 02:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think this is a necessary (and fun) category, though the jury may be out on the best name for it. I want it to stay. I have tried to give it a simpler definition; others will decide whether this was a good or bad step. Andrew Dalby 09:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I found this related definition on the page for Historical revisionism (negationism):
 * Crypto-revisionism
 * Crypto-revisionism is a derogatory term used to describe the act of engaging in negationism for primarily political purposes. The term "crypto" is intended to refer to the use of obscure, little-known (or misunderstood) reasoning and overblown statements in order to hide the true intent behind the author's actions (in the same sense that cryptography is used to hide a secret message from prying eyes).
 * The term "crypto-revisionism" is usually used in public circles in a demeaning manner. Authors often use the term as a way of suggesting that their opponents are trying to hide the truth and bury it with cryptic statements and muddling, distracting facts that are actually unrelated to the subject at hand.

I think this may refer to the same thing as cryptohistory... and if so it is a better definition. On the other hand it does indeed look like it is another form of Pseudo-history - which does have its own (much larger) category... I would therefor vote for merge this with that.Blueboar 12:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Pseudo-history sounds like a better term, but crypto means secret not false or contrived. It sounds like what conspiracy theorists claim is the "real" secret history of the world.  Crypto-revisionism means that someone is trying to hide their real ideas.--Cberlet 12:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * And just for ease of comparison... here is the definition of Pseudo-history: Pseudohistory is a pejorative term applied to texts which purport to be historical in nature but which depart from standard historiographical conventions in a way which undermines their conclusions. Works which draw controversial conclusions from new, speculative or disputed historical evidence, particularly in the fields of national, political, military and religious affairs, are often rejected as pseudohistory by commentators holding contrasting views.
 * Very similar... perhaps cryptohistory is a subset of Pseudohistory? Blueboar 14:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Crypto-revisionism is revising using lesser-known elements of the historical record and dialectic -- but the important bit is the revisionism, which is attempting to alter the consensus understanding to some end, usually political.  Crytohistory is far more benign; it is simply the lesser-known elements of history.  And while it may be used to implement crypto-revisionism, it is not itself crypto-revisionism any more than individual words are novels. Joshua BishopRoby 22:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)