Talk:Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc

Dates
PLEASE, put the years of these works. I may do so myself at some point, but haven't the time right now.
 * Good idea. This page has gotten uneven attention.  I translated most of the fine art from the French Wikipedia, where date information was spotty.  It's a question of time on my part too. Durova 06:30, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Added dates to the literature section. Expanded the film section.  Converted some sections to table format. Durova 01:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Most of the entries in popular music have dates now also. Adding to television. Durova 19:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC) Most of the paintings have dates now. Durova 04:00, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Progress
6 out of 9 sections are now in table format. Still need dates for most of the computer games and anime. Sculpture needs reorganization and translation of a few scattered entries from French. It's probably best to make sculpture a single section and include table notes to indicate whether a piece is equestrian. Durova 07:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

This article should be merged with the regular Joan of Arc page. It would make a very nice and concise addition to it.


 * Actually it began as part of the main article and split off due to space constraints. Durova 21:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

suggested image
I think this looks alot like her. I doubt she would be that thin though.



Serieal Experiments: Lain
I deleted my addition of Serial Experiments: Lain from the list as even thought the subject is highly reminiscent, I couldn't find any direct reference of Joan of Arc in the anime and I don't feel that this list is intended to just any fictionnal young woman inspired by the voice of God to save the world by fighting alienation. --SidiLemine 12:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Shakespeare and Voltaire
Descriptions of these two portrayals have been rewritten twice now, advocating dubious assertions, and blanking the link to the Gutenberg Project text for Henry VI, Part I. This has the appearance of a pattern of vandalism in which both authors' names were also deleted from the main article. If there is some legitimate reason for these changes please state it here, along with a citation for the claim that public opinion forced Shakespeare to change Joan of Arc from a sympathetic figure to a villain in different drafts. If these changes recur without explanation I will report them for formal action as vandalism. Durova 18:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Ash by Mary Gentle?
Haven't actually read this huge trilogy yet, but reviews of it suggest that it has some parallel or connection with the history of Joan of Arc. Can someone who has read it confirm if it belongs here or not? --Jim Henry 18:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Clone high
Joan of arc is cloned and is a main character in the 2003 MTV series Clone High. Might be worth noting.

Music
There are two works of music inspired by St Joan which I don't think fit into "opera/oratorio" or "popular music." One is Voices of Light, a choral score to the Dreyer film which is frequently performed both with and without the film accompanying it; the other is the set of choruses from The Lark, written by Leonard Bernstein. I propose changing the title of "opera/oratorio", though to what? Not "classical music" as I hate it when that is used to mean the inverse of "pop music." Thoughts?--Dmz5 19:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm a moron and didn't see Voices of Light already there, but nonetheless I think the title should change. Voices of Light is not an oratorio (this word does actually have a definition and isn't synonymous with "big choral work.")  I'm going to change the heading, please let me know if you don't like it.--Dmz5 19:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

You forgot Moritz Moszkowski’s symphonic poem Jeanne d’Arc (op.19), for orchestra alone hence not an opera, oratorio etc etc... Schissel | Sound the Note! 15:53, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Joan of Arc as Slayer of her generation
As far as I can tell, there is nothing in Buffyverse cannon that suggests she was called as the slayer. I'm removing this until somebody can cite a reference.

Another song
I don't know what year it came out and I'm not up on Wiki formatting yet so I'll put it here for now. The Doug Anthony All Stars, an Australian comedy/satire group had a rather uncouth (but funny) song called Joan Of Arc. Gemfyre 02:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It is my opinion
that the Paul Debois}Paul DeBois statue in Reims is an equestrian statue and not a standing one as is listed in the chart of statues - so, I changed it. Be Bold, and I'm sure the Maid of Orleans would agree. Carptrash 19:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Her paintings
This should be featured, I haven't seen anything about it more than a few lines of description I have got hold of it. My own photos taken by me.

Praying: http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1388/img14wu2.jpg

In arms: http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6259/img15mw5.jpg

Can it be used on this section? (Phu2734 06:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC))


 * The best place for that would be the sister project Wikimedia Commons. When you upload please note as much relevant information as possible: the location and date when the photograph was taken as well as (if you know it) the artist and date when the images were created.  Durova Charge! 02:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Deteriorated
This is a featured list, but I think it's deteriorated to the point where it really shouldn't be featured anymore. The list sets up boundaries but they aren't followed -- depictions of Joan of Arc are one thing, but works inspired by the story, or characters with similar names push those boundaries too much. There are almost no inline citations, which is one of the featured list requirements. Some of the material is questionable, especially in the video game section which is unreferenced. The paintings and opera sections are unreferenced. Is there anyone out there who wants to work on these issues? If not, I will probably list this at WP:FLRC after a while. Mango juice talk 21:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Downsizing
I intend to remove most of the items in the "Joan of Arc in popular culture" section because Wikipedia is not a directory, as many entries are not made famous by their association with the figure. These include the mention of the figure in song lyrics. Items that will be kept include media directly based on the figure. Below is a sample list of things that I will remove and things that I will leave: If there are any issues with the removal of entries that are not entirely based on Joan of Arc, please say so here. This trivia otherwise should be removed to keep a cleaner list of significant entries. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 17:43, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing items like:
 * "This Bug" (song) - Silverfish - Includes the lyrics, "Sometimes I feel like Joan of Arc -- the way I bite, and spit and bark."
 * Mario's Time Machine - Joan of Arc appears as a character.
 * Legends of the Hidden Temple - Game show where teams of kids or teenagers try to find historical artifacts, one of them being the Helmet of Joan of Arc
 * Top 10: The Forty-Niners - One of the officers, named Joanna Dark, dresses in chainmail and uses holy powers.
 * Keeping items like:
 * Jeanne d'Arc (album) - Thy Majestie - Concept album about Joan of Arc by a power metal band from Italy.
 * Joan of Arcadia - CBS series theme inspired by Joan of Arc, features a girl about Joan's age who speaks with God and uses His influence to do good deeds in her community.
 * Jeanne d'Arc - PSP game, Title character in a fantasy universe loosely based on the historical story.
 * D'arc: Histoire de Jeanne D'arc - Two volume fantasy retelling the story of Joan of Arc. Art by Katsuya Kondō and story by Ken'ichi Sakemi.


 * I have removed the more trivial items from the lists of appearances. Items that indicated a direct influence from the figure, such as a song or TV show based on her, were kept.  Some items seem questionable, though, like the figure appearing as one of many in a fighting or strategy game.  Otherwise, I don't believe that the removed items were too debatable. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 19:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Martha Graham's ballet Seraphic Dialogue
Martha Graham made a ballet about Joan of Arc called Seraphic Dialogue. I'm not sure, but I thought maybe some would be interested in including this on this page. -- Andrew Parodi (talk) 13:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:PassionJoanOfArc.png
The image Image:PassionJoanOfArc.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --05:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Mini-series 1999

 * The 1999 television mini-series which starred Leelee Sobieski in the title role showed Jeanne's execution occurring in the midst of a winter snowstorm. Jeanne was burnt at the stake on the 30th of May!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:45, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Joan of Arc (DuBois)
Hi there, there is an article for Joan of Arc (DuBois) talking about the Washington, D.C. sculpture. I don't want to add it to your list, per se, since I'm not exactly sure how a logical way would go about to add the sculpture to the "sculpture" list an still bring awareness to people that it's a link to the article (and not DuBois). Missvain (talk) 16:08, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Heather Dale song
Just wondering why the song "Joan" by Heather Dale isn't featured on this list? Could it be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.28.186.175 (talk) 22:50, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Revert war
Copied from my talk page: Xxanthippe (talk) 06:31, 9 July 2014 (UTC).

Hello. Your reverts of my edits in the Film section is why no one outside the Wiki community takes Wiki seriously! Why bother spending an hour or more trying to better an article when someone is going to revert it seconds after it posts? The Twentieth Century entry - which you saw fit to delete - was referenced; silly me, I thought Wiki requires references! If it was in the wrong section, please place it in the right section, but don't delete it. BTW, the Hallmark Hall of Fame "Joan of Arc" episode does not have a Wiki article, which is why I deleted the  around it; please revert to my edit. Worc63 (talk) 04:58, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You removed several instructive comments. Substantial changes to well-established article are expected to be accompanied by an explanation, no matter how long they took to make. I suggest you take the matter to the talk page as per WP:BRD, where the D stands for discuss. Best wishes for your editing. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:07, 9 July 2014 (UTC).

Need to refocus this article
Originally, this article was intended (as the name implies) to cover depictions of the historical Joan of Arc in literature, movies, etc; but by now it largely covers two groups of characters: fantasy characters that merely have the name "Joan of Arc" but bear absolutely no resemblance to the real person; and characters which have a completely different name and merely bear a very vague resemblance to the historical person (e.g., a woman who has some role in an army). This is unacceptable. The article needs to be pruned back until it includes only what was originally intended. Maybe we can make another article called "Fantasy characters who bear a distant resemblance to Joan of Arc if you have a good imagination", although I think these characters would be better covered in articles on whatever genre they come from (e.g. the Anime characters can be placed in articles dealing with Anime). Unless there are reasonable objections, I'm going to begin pruning. Ryn78 (talk) 23:59, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

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Méliès' film
Georges Méliès' film "Joan of Arc" was shot in the spring of 1900, and not in 1899. Furthermore, the protagonist is Jeanne Calvière and not Jeanne d'Alcy (who plays Giovanna's mother). The source (also cited in the Wikipedia article on the film) is: Malthête, Jacques; Mannoni, Laurent (2008), L'oeuvre de Georges Méliès, Paris: Éditions de La Martinière, p. 106, ISBN 9782732437323

In popular culture - "films"
A single mention in a (primary source) entire film script, or in three entire film scripts, is somehow notable? Plus one unsourced mention in a 1934 spy movie? I honestly think the Canadian brand of tinned beans is more notable. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Literature and theatre
Should also contain "Foundation's Fear" by Gregory Benford — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.0.103.119 (talk) 12:28, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Joan in the Garden (Decemberists Song)
My previous edit, adding this song under the music section was removed. The stated reason being that the following source 'is a PR release': https://klofmag.com/2024/03/the-decemberists-joan-in-the-garden-as-it-ever-was/

I'm new at editing Wikipedia, so forgive my ignorance, but I don't understand how an article being a PR release would inherently preclude its validity as a source in this context. The article in question contains a quote from the writer of the song, in which he specifies his intention in writing the song was to portray Joan of Arc:

"Colin Meloy: “Joan in the Garden” has been kicking around as an idea since the ‘I’ll Be Your Girl’ sessions. I got into a Joan of Arc kick after reading Lydia Yuknavitch’s beautifully batshit novel ‘The Book of Joan.’ I wanted to make my own version of Joan — but the song that came was as much about the creative process as it was about the actual woman, about angelic visitation and creative visitation and the hallucinogenic quality of both.”"

What more would be necessary to qualify the song for inclusion on this page? Theda19 (talk) 23:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sources that are independent of their subject Reliable sources. Xxanthippe (talk) 02:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC).
 * Are you saying that it would require a third party to write an article agreeing with the songwriter's statement that it is a song about Joan of Arc? Theda19 (talk) 03:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, now that I'm looking at the other entries in that section of the article, it appears that most of them don't link to any sources at all. How is this different? Theda19 (talk) 03:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFF. You may wish to gain more experience of editing Wikipedia before getting involved in contentious areas. Do you have any WP:COI like WP:Paid editing that would require disclosure? I myself have none. You might to consult the WP:Tea House. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC).
 * No, I don't have any conflict of interest here, and I'm not being paid to edit anything. I just heard this song, it sent me down a Joan of Arc Rabbit hole. I found this page, and thought the song made sense to be included in the Music section. What would be considered contentious about that? Theda19 (talk) 04:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I've consulted with the Tea House page, I explained the situation there, and the response I got seemed to agree with me that the source in question was adequate for the context of this page. "I think we can take a close primary source to verify that the song really does depict Joan of Arc; after all, who would know this better than the person who wrote the song?"
 * They did go on to bring up a separate potential question of whether the song is notable enough for inclusion, but I would think that largely comes down to a matter of personal preference. From my perspective, it's a song by a very popular band known for regularly making songs depicting historical events and figures, and therefore it's plenty notable in my eyes. But ultimately that would likely come down to a question of personal opinion, and is completely unrelated to the source based rationale for which you removed it. Theda19 (talk) 14:13, 14 May 2024 (UTC)