Talk:Culture of the United States/Archive 1

A More Accurate Title For The Article Would Be "European culture in the United States"
Because there's nothing in the article other than European culture in the United States, the article could also be changed to "foreign culture in the US" and be more accurate. Johnson654 (talk) 23:59, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Since when are the Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, American football, basketball, baseball, Mark Twain, Edgar Allen Poe, and Chicken Fried Steak "European Culture"? 69.154.25.154 (talk) 21:38, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

am I the only one slightly disconcerted by the term "domestic originality of awesome?" I think this entire article needs a major overhaul or should be marked for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.218.160.18 (talk) 21:44, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Popular culture section
I'm getting pretty tired seeing 10 to 15 edits every week in the popular culture section. Mostly it's listing the singers, actors, movies ect... Well I think this section should be about describing our popular culture rather than simply providing a big list of stars that seems to change every day. I propose to delete listing all of the bands, singers, and actors and focus simply on the history, genres, and extent of American pop culture in the world. What do you guys think? 69.150.133.221 (talk) 18:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

What the heck
Let’s learn how to properly form sentences before we create wikipedia articles. Okay? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.152.243.170 (talk) 00:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, nice demonstration of a split infinitive. You could have written:

Lets's learn how to form sentences properly before we create Wikipedia articles. Okay?

Or

Let's learn how to form proper sentences before we create Wikipedia articles. Okay ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.170.39.35 (talk) 08:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Redirect American Values
Just why is there a redirect to this page from 'American values'. This article treats something completely different. Furthermore, this seems to be rather a "high arts" article than about "culture". --84.119.76.179 (talk) 13:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Other Redirects as well. There should be a diambig page for all the aspects of american culture. THIS article should be re-titled to something like "Artistic Culture of the United States". 172.168.59.211 (talk) 20:46, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Move needed
The term culture applies to more than literature and music. Values, norms and lifestyle as much part of culture as opera and novels. This article should be moved another, more specific title. Dividing the fomer, 100kb, Culture of the U.S. article was an interesting idea, but now the topic is divided between two article - that's ok, but giving this article the title "culture" is somewhat misleading as it only deals with certain aspects of culture.  Signature brendel  06:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

This article must be worded very carefully, and as it stands its opening sentence is extremely awkward and off-putting. And agreement on the previous statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.21.67.158 (talk) 13:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Typo/vandalism?
American culture has a large influence on the rest of the world, especially the Western world. American music is heard all over he was so gay]],

Looks like some words have been removed and inappropriate words added. Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 16:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality
Much of this article lacks truth and references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.152.219 (talk) 11:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * References maybe, but what specific parts are untruthful? You can't just put a tag on an entire article without giving at least a couple examples.  Maybe either the disputed material can be removed or references can be found. Kman543210 (talk) 10:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll step in here for some examples, lets start with the comment "One way that American culture differs from that of similar countries (e.g. Canada and the United Kingdom) is that American culture exhibits a tendency to hybridize pop culture and so-called high culture, and generally questions normative standards for artistic output.[citation needed] This is likely an effect of the country's egalitarian tradition, and the nation's history of constitutionally protected freedom of speech and expression, as enshrined in the First Amendment.". As I recall both of those countries have had egalitarian laws much longer than the US (your First Amendment not withstanding, blacks still had to wait like a century to get freedom, women are still fighting the closing battles of the war for equality and homosexuals are starting theirs). And for mixing pop-Culture with high society (although I think its more like your American high-culture slums it, how much of your high culture spends its time in rehabs or become born again?) I don't see how America is unique in this regard, the royal family is part of pop-culture in Britain, music groups have done shows for members of the Government same as in the states. Not to mention most American music styles are copied from others (Britain, blacks, etc.)
 * Good comments. It needs to be added that African Americans are very important contributors to American culture, not victims of copying. Steve Dufour (talk) 15:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Theres also this one "It can be argued that this ability to easily absorb parts of other cultures and other languages is its greatest strength and helps American culture and language spread. Americans in general do not worry about protecting their "indigenous culture" (see below) but instead eagerly create and adopt new things and then change or modify to make them their own.", coming from the same country where you have people of Irish descent saying that St. Patricks Day should not be a holiday because it is not American. The whole article looks like it was written by someone with rose-tinted glasses and a one sided view of American history and current happenings. The "Exportation of popular culture" section also fails to mention how American culture got to places like Japan (occupation after WWII for those a little rusty on history). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 19:56, 24 July 2008 (UTC) The part about American comics being the leader in terms of quantity has no citation and seems incredibly far fetched to me. The amount of comics produced in Japan on a daily basis is mind boggling, based on my experience in America I find it hard to believe America outproduces them. There is also a "citation needed" mark next to the line about how American movies and TV can be watched "almost anywhere". Rather than needing a citation I think this line should be removed completely. This does not sound like a quantifiable statement to me.--HitoriTabi (talk) 11:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Far short of a cultural analysis of America...
I'm sorry, but culture comprises much more than just the arts and "pop culture". There is no mention of religion, traditions, holidays/celebrations, ethics, social-relationships - the VBBN (values, beliefs, behavior, and norms) of the American culture. I am not a pundit or scholar, and as such have no place writing a "better" description of American culture, but would like to have something more complete available to aspiring students and scholars world-wide than just the singers, sports stars, and Hollywood presented. Is that really all we are about? I don't think so. It's kind of like saying that China is only about its food and Communism. Not at all true, nor representative of the deep chinese culture.

Just the opinions of a passer by... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.164.74.253 (talk) 19:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree this is a poor description of American culture. The article understates and badly summarizes nearly 400 years development of a unique and important literature, musical tradition, and poetry, not to mention that America was possibly the dominant cultural force in the world in the second half of the twentieth century.  The article is also extremely Eurocentric, e.g., "European sophistication and domestic originality", as if all that comes from Europe is somehow "sophisticated" peppered with humble down home American quirkiness.  Honestly, does one really think "European sophistication and domestic originality" when one hears the music of Miles Davis or reads the poetry of E.E. Cummings?  Certainly not.  Furthermore, the contributions of African Americans are simply left out, it seems, except in the area of cuisine.  This is inexcusable.


 * A poor representation. Delete it or greatly expand it.

I agree. This is shockingly far from the necessary scholarly standard and offers no value.


 * Also, what on earth is this supposed to mean: " . . . television programs are some of the few things that nearly all Americans can share"? Smacks of an agenda.  Very weasel.


 * These comments are very unhelpful if you're not willing to do something about it. First, I agree that the article needs major additions, but to leave long comments about how bad the article is without adding to it is not very helpful. Anyone can edit, so feel free to find some sources and add to the article. Kman543210 (talk) 23:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Um Kman543210 your comment's aren't really helpful either! So have you done something about this article...?? also I agree with the first person who posted this section!!! totally i mean, i think the most important part of the american culture is religion and all that... i mean it affects the whole world u kno... and like i think pop culture is like nothing compared to what you mentioned... like in asia people don't even know who britney spears is etc etc. and what hot dogs are (obviously bc they don't taste good lol) so yeah —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThE YaNg (talk • contribs) 23:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it, comics and Walt Whitman are the traditional, original pieces of American culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 20:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Multiculturalism
This article in general doesn't focus enough on the fact that little of American culture is wholly American, that it is reliant on other cultures for much of its own. For instance, Levi Strauss (German), Alexander Graham Bell (Scottish/British/Canadian), Roman archetecture (Europe), square dancing (Scotland/France/Britain in general), french fries (Belgian/European),Soul food (imported slaves),Creole and Cajun cuisine (French and others) and Ralph Lauren (Jewish White Russian). Not to mention all of the immigrant actors that are known world wide (For instance Shatner and Mike Myers who are both Canadian). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Superman, Baseball, Basketball and American Football are also reliant on foriegn culture (Canada, Europe, Canada and Britain [with rugby and soccer]). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 20:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, you can trace every food/sport/etc. back to other countries' roots... then, you can trace those roots back to other countries/civilizations/etc... the process is never-ending. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.128.243.2 (talk) 00:36, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Military
Another thing this is missing a mention of the military, its hard to believe that an government organization as big as the American military (one of the biggest in the world in fact, easily the largest navy, infact larger than #2-#18 put together) has no effect on its culture. British military sure has an effect on its culture, especially its navy in the Colonial period. Even the Canadian military (all 5 guys) has an effect on their culture, with the peacekeepers and what not. Also a note, if you find a change I add to be OR, then delete it or it, do not revert to other OR and certainly do not delete s unless you actually get sources, the burden of proof lies on the defensive side. I realize some of this comes off somewhat negative, I don't mean it to be, at least not unrealistically so (every culture has its faults), but I also don't think its right to say what a great place America is without anything backing that up (which is whats happening when you say how great and better off you are because your diverse and equal and always have been when you still aren't 100%). It sounds like Einstein before he actually got there, when he only knew what the propaganda told him.

Age
If American culture is 500 centuries old than it can hardly be considered a relatively young country when modern France is at best 2 Centuries (including the Empire and afew democracies), this is the 4th or 5th Reich (Realm, Germany, which has little relation to the First, the 2nd under Bismarck is probably its closest relation), the only European nation older than it is Britain. If your gonna argue these nations exist beyond their governments, then America exists back into the B.C.s under various tribes and Empires. If you can count 1776-2008 is 232, its third century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 03:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And, I think Europeans got to America (not counting the Vikings because they're not real people to Americans, just like Asatru) in the 1490s, which would put it into its sixth century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 03:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they may be counting from when the British colonist first arrived. The "American culture" didn't just suddenly start in 1776. Kman543210 (talk) 03:56, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously not, nothing just springs up, not American football, not potato chips and certainly not a whole culture based around these things, but until then it was technically British Colonial Culture. Even if your right though, that would be Fourth Century, Britain (at the time mostly England) didn't get onto mainland America until the 1620s I believe. Previous colonies were retaken by the Spanish who owned the land by Papal Bull and British Colonies were limited to the islands of the Caribbean (many of which they still own or are tied to), nothing mainland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 04:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyways it says "At the beginning of her third/fifth century nearly every major American city..." clearly refering to the motherland of the United States of America rather than the culture of it, she wasn't a mother until 1776, before that she lived at home with her pompous ass of a father England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 04:35, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

why can't people just try to make this article neutral!! omg
omg why do americans have to be so proud of their culture... I mean to people from other countries its like nothing! i mean i speak lots of languages and when i look at culture articles of other countries they are sooo professional and sooo not biased... need smarter people here on wikipedia! :] —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThE YaNg (talk • contribs) 23:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Why does anyone have to be so proud of their culture? It's just a big a culture as anybody else. Article is fine the way it is, it could be vastly expanded upon though, there's more that can be included. This is just as good as the others though in terms of the way it is typed. And the editors are quite smart. You should just be honest and say it's just not what you want to read. ;) 68.192.210.186 (talk) 21:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

America is a 'net exporter of culture'... are you joking? Has the person who wrote that any comprehension how ludicrous that sounds? 'Culture' isn't something that can be traced back 30 or so years, it is something that can be traced back hundreds of years to the founding fathers importing ideas such as the 'rights of englishman' that are the cornerstone of the nation. Not only that, the US has imported its system of common law, democracy, rule of law, free-market capitalism etc etc as well as the English Language! This is without even considering Shakespeare, Beathoven, Picasso, any other cultural media that many in the world consider 'contemporary' (i.e. those nations that have existed for more than 250 years.). I think it would be fair to say that the US is a major, major, major importer of cultural ideas and media. In the words of one friend of mine, "we took the best bits of culture from the world and PERFECTED them!" This article needs to be more dynamic rather than focussing on the last 20-30 years or so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.36.56.137 (talk) 17:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Zach is the all time ruler of america    == Music??? ==

Why does music not have its own section in an article about American culture? I would say that the music industry is among the most defining characteristics of American culture.MrShamrock (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Singers?
Michael Jackson, Tina Turner, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Cyndi Lauper, Mariah Carey,usher, chris brown, and the Backstreet Boys? Can someone please diversify the group considering that pop music isn't the only type of music produced in the US.

Perhaps Jimi Hendrix, Elvis Presley, Charles Parker, Chuck Berry, Miles Davis, Frank Sinatra, BB King, Louis Armstrong, The Ramones or Dean Martin can be substituted? Stratocracy (talk) 03:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it does need to be diversified considering that so many well-known US rock, blues and jazz singers are left out.Ergophobiac (talk) 15:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

The article would be better served without individuals, as I noted below. Better to talk about genres such as rock, blues and jazz. --70.16.180.241 (talk) 18:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Written Like a High School Essay
This needs a rewrite pretty badly along with some citation. Also it should be linking to articles about other parts of American culture as opposed to individual contributors such as what happened in the Music and Movies section. In essence, this article should be taking more of a macro approach. Its a big issue. --70.16.180.241 (talk) 18:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

american culture
mothers day  is  also  celebrated  in america following along  with  fathers  day ,birthdays  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.112.220 (talk) 19:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Sports
Instead of having pictures of professional sports, especially a niche sport like ice hockey.. I've added a picture of bowling, clearly a more widespread American cultural phenomenon than a professional ice hockey game. To the person who leaves unsigned comments on my talk page, please discuss your reasons on here instead, thanks.Emsley (talk) 14:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi and thanks for making this addition - sports actually PERFORMED by citizens instead of only watchend sure is a dimsenion of sports not given due credit most of the time. ;-)
 * However, I think this shift in awareness could work even better, if you just ADDED bowling instead of taking out ice hockey altogether. I'd be happy if you take care of your own edit, extending it in a way that both ice hockey AND bowling could be in side by side - also, there's not much mention, yet, about citizens playing baseball or softball, which is also a common while non-professional phenomenon (if that's the road you're heading down in your next edit, go ahead!). --Klingon83 (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * How about rodeo, car racing, surfing, hunting and fishing, and other sports which are popular? (I was going to say "popular among many people" but that's kind of redundant isn't it?)Steve Dufour (talk) 15:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Religious Statistics for the United States
These statistics are outdated, the non-religious american demographic is well over 15% now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.174.2.129 (talk) 23:49, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

What about Washington Irving and James Fenimore Cooper?
The section on Literature of the United States states that authentic American literature didn't really begin until the mid-19th century, with Hawthorne, etc., but what about Irving and Cooper? They wrote in the early 19th century. Cooper was literally world-renowned, and I've always heard Washington Irving described as "the first American author," in terms of fiction. I took first semester American Literature at a community college over 15 years ago (and I only got a "B"), so I'd rather someone with a little more expertise on the subject made these edits, rather than myself, but if no one else makes them, I suppose I shall get around to doing so at some point (unless someone can provide a rationale why they should not be made). KevinOKeeffe (talk) 12:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Beginning
The beginning of this article is an unsightly list, contrary to the majority of Wikipedia's concise, informative introductions. Siddharth9200 (talk) 22:04, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

this article...
...is just full of shit. actually i wanted to get to know sth about "american values". i was redirected here. but this article tells me nothing about american values. and does not live up to my expectations to an article about any countrys culture. this is all there is to say about american culture??? are you kidding me? greetings from germany

American culture is not the same as "Western" culture
I've realised that the problems I've seen in some articles may be due to Americans believing that the culture customs and conventions of other English-speaking and other Western countries are just the same as American culture, and that any differences are just due to other countries being rather backward or incompetent.

A minor example: "Mainstream American culinary arts are similar to those in other Western countries." Not true - British cooking for example is different. 89.242.101.23 (talk) 12:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The word "similar" in no way means "same." Have a look at the picture of Common American Foods in the Cuisine section. I think you'll see something very "similar" to fish and chips.70.240.50.108 (talk) 02:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Theater
I think playwrights such as Arthur Miller and Tennessee Williams (along with their most famous plays; A Streetcar named Desire, All My Sons, etc.) merit inclusion in the theater section due to their global respect. As does a more accurate description of musical theater as an American-invented art-form. Same with such world-renowned creators as Stephen Sondheim and Rodgers and Hammerstein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.205.37 (talk) 20:10, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

As usual, nothing about actual culture
This article should be titled "Activities and Events in the United States". There is nothing about shared beliefs, values, social rules, traditions, superstitions. So as usual, Wikipedia can't say anything interesting because it's so partisan and agenda-laden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.140.234.178 (talk) 20:59, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

History
Perhaps we should consider the "History of Culture." For example, people in the really big cities had halls where performers could stage plays with candles and oil lamps with reflectors in the pre-Civil War environment. In the late 19th century, these gave way to "Opera" houses which featured mostly popular singers and skits. In the early 20th century, odea, which had gaslights or electric lights and vaudeville into the 1930s. These were mostly turned into movie houses.

When these failed, they were replaced by stadiums which had room, and fewer entertainers (who got paid a lot more!). Almost entirely pop music (Baby Boomer stuff). Flash ahead to the late 1980s and 90s - Large houses bearing an uncanny resemblance to the old opera houses/odea which staged shows which (like the older vaudeville and rock bands) brought "Broadway" (or whatever) to the hustings. Expensive seats. Student7 (talk) 21:48, 19 November 2010 (UTC)