Talk:Cupertino, California/Archive 1

This article needs to be cleaned
Here are several examples of where this article needs to be cleaned: "The controversy at Stevens Creek Elementary" - This entire section should be a seperate article "The quality of service is poor..." - Non-neutral, Source? "Cupertino has bike lanes on its boulevards, but they are frequently ignored by careless or speeding drivers, and bicyclists must exercise extreme caution." - Non-neutral, Source? "The city is served by an excellent road system." - Non-neutral, Source? "Previous versions looked like a stylized snail, although the current version actually looks like a hat." - Non-neutral, Source? "Over 60 high-tech companies have offices here" - Useage of 2nd person "Because Cupertino has developed so quickly since the 1960s" - Useage of present tense "which have been barely staying alive because of the dominance of large shopping malls in Silicon Valley" - poorly worded

I contributed most of the sections whose neutrality you are contesting. Unfortunately, I'm rather busy right now. When I have time (in August) I will go over to Cupertino Library to do some research. I think most of those points can be traced to various articles in the Cupertino Courier and the San Jose Mercury News. --Coolcaesar 22:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The controversy at Stevens Creek Elementary should be part of the Stevens Creek Elementary School article, which I'll get around to creating sometime. ςפקιДИτς 01:07, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

"Chinkertino" and "Goopertino"
I've lived my whole (but short) life in the South Bay, and I've never heard either term. ςפקιДИτς ☺ ☻ 05:31, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I concur. Those pejorative terms do not belong in this article.  --Coolcaesar 06:28, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Steve Jobs
The article states that Steve Jobs lives in cupertino, but I'm pretty sure he actually lives in Palo Alto —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.57.86.141 (talk • contribs)


 * That is correct. I'll change it - Ali-oops&#9997; 06:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Alt definition
"Cupertino" is used among techies to refer to Apple. I'm not sure how to incorporate that here. --Ephilei 08:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

High-tech on Bubb Road and Cali Mill Plaza?
"Most of these hi-tech companies are located on De Anza Boulvevard, Cali Mill Plaza, and Bubb Road." Who wrote this sentence? Obviously someone who hasn't been to Cupertino. While I could buy De Anza, Cali Mill Plaza isn't even a proper street; it's just a small corner of the intersection at De Anza and Stevens Creek Blvd. Bubb Road is mostly a residential street, and the short stretch just south of Stevens Creek Blvd. that has Hantronix, several Apple buildings, and a handful of pharma and network companies hardly qualifies as having many high-tech companies. This sentence needs to be edited by someone more familiar with the high-tech industry in Cupertino. 71.146.46.18 02:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Removed gratuitous plug For Apple Computer in second paragraph
No need to mention twice, and once in the second paragraph, that Cupertino is the location of Steve Jobs' Apple Computer 69.228.240.57 00:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Non Neutral
in a "pleasant" complex circled by the playfully named Infinite Loop

To many former and current employees, it's not pleasant. Why the word "Pleasant"?

Addition: There are several other instances of non-neutrality in this article. For instance, the comments about the city's logo now "actually looking like a hat", and the part about the transportation system being "excellent".

Addition 2: I noticed that someone had entered a really inflammatory paragraph about the cement plant up there in the hills, violating the OR and NPOV policies. The entry quoted uncited study data that described terrible potential effects, but failed to mention that the company is apparently in compliance with all regulations that prevent such effects. The text was very careful not to actually state that the plant was in violation, but without an extremely careful read, the text seemed to say that the plant was an environmental disaster area. The section was further suspect because its token mention of history was also incorrect, placing the cement plant's construction during WWII as part of the war effort, an assertion that is completely wrong. I edited with factual information - sorry to just jump on it and edit the live page, but people advancing a point of view with unbased info really bug me. 2Track 16:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Questionable Information about Schools
There are several problems with the section about Cupertino Schools:


 * The table does not include all of the schools in CUSD.


 * I am familiar with Cupertino schools and have never heard the terms "primary path" and "secondary path," nor are they mentioned or explained anywhere in the CUSD web site.


 * The term "lottery school" is also incorrect. These schools are among the four alternative programs available in CUSD.  Each alternative program is available to students from all over the district, as opposed to being neighborhood schools.  When applications exceed available spaces, there is a lottery, but the lottery is not the defining element of the school.

In general, it's not clear why the list of schools and their test scores is appropriate here. Miahavero (talk) 19:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Stevens Creek Elementary lawsuit
Seems to be projected larger than it deserves to be in this article. Personal POV
 * Agreed. It's probably better if the whole issue were included in the Cupertino Union School District article or the Stevens Creek Elementary article. .::Arbitrary::. (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

The Cupertino Effect
Is this part really necessary? It has little to do with the city itself and borders more on trivia and humor rather than encyclopedia material. Jon914 07:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I kinda liked it, since im a trivia fan, but it has nothing to do with Cupertino, despite its name, so it might deserve a place in an article about typos or computer artefacts. I would vote for a stub on its own, so it can at least be found. H.A.N.D. Seismic Boom 13:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree, I think Cupertino effect should redirect to, most likely, Spelling suggestion or Spell checker. Circeus (talk) 03:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Todo

 * Should probably add Cupertino high school to the list.


 * Dilworth elementary should also be added, it is currently above the table for some reason. I tried to fix it, but its not working. --Angelstarstar (talk) 05:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Notable residents (or former residents)
I don't think these should be grouped together, at first glance it gives the impression that they live in the city. I think it should just be current residents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.81.137.234 (talk) 00:51, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Melissa Grelli? If you have to add such a long explanation after her listing, is she really that notable? Tmpafford (talk) 20:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"Suburban"?
The article states several times that this town is "suburban", but nowhere does it reveal of which city it is a suburb. I happen to know, but is a foreign reader expected to guess that?--dunnhaupt (talk) 02:54, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

A city can have suburbs, but it cannot BE a suburb. By definition, a suburb is a lesser division (i.e. sub) and often outlying and / or residential area of a city or major town (i.e. urban = city). No such thing as a suburban city (that would be a "less than urban urban area", or a "part of a city city"). Similarly, a title can have a subtitle, but a subtitle is not a main title... and so on. Cupertino may be a satellite city, i.e. a city which has grown up as an offshoot of another adjacent city. 86.46.32.169 (talk) 17:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes it can. That definition varies more widely than you were apparently aware of.  (Your IP address appears to be from Ireland.)  Metro areas have suburbs.  Cupertino is a suburb of San Jose, and not a division of it.  Both are cities with their own local governments.  This happens anywhere cities and towns that did not originally border each other grew until they did.  It's common in the US, and especially California where there have historically been numerous cycles of rapid growth. Ikluft (talk) 20:14, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The real issue here is that city has multiple valid and operative definitions in American English. This is a fairly common problem on Wikipedia because a number of British English speakers don't understand that. A city in American English can mean either a settled area with an extremely high population and/or density (e.g., New York City) or it can expansively refer to any legally incorporated settlement of any size.  In other words, it's the default legal term for any settlement that has formed its own municipal corporation to govern itself.  The latter definition is used in nearly all U.S. states, including California.  A California city can rename itself a "town" if it wishes, but that's merely a cosmetic designation and for all legal purposes it is covered by all the laws applicable to cities.  California did have "townships" for a while, but they were merely for judicial jurisdiction purposes (they were never established as separate governments) and were abolished in the early 20th century.  The term "suburban" in American English refers to a community that borders a city in the first sense of the term, which is why Americans can and often do refer to "suburban cities."  In this case, Cupertino is an incorporated city that functions as a suburb of two major cities, San Francisco and San Jose.--Coolcaesar (talk) 00:10, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Another example of this is that San Francisco is referred to as the "City by the Bay," where "city" is used in the first sense, because of its extremely high population density. This is what Bay Area residents mean when they say "I went shopping in the city last week" or "I'm going to attend the opera in the city."  But when two residents of a Bay Area suburb share complaints about their local government, they might say, "Our city's elected officials are incompetent." This is the second usage of the term.  --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry Ikluft, and Coolcaesar, I fundamentally disagree with your assessments, though I do agree that it largely comes down to a distinction between the defintiions of towns and cities (not in the colloquial sense, but the administrative sense) (Ikluft, yes I'm in Ireland on holiday right now but I'm a San Jose resident and a strategic planner working for Cupertino's Sanitary Division. I grew up near Monta Vista, a suburb of Cupertino). I suggest (with all due respect) that you check your definitions in a U.S. geography text or even here on Wikipedia: "In the United States and Canada, suburb usually refers to a separate municipality, borough, or unincorporated area outside a town or city". i.e. a suburb is an indistinct unincorporated development at the outskirts of the existing limits of a central city or town area: hence "sub"-"urban". Discrete incorporated cities that have their own administrative boundaries that did not originally border each other but grew until they did are more correctly called conurbations, not suburbs.   Although the town of Cupertino grew up separately and would have been considered a satellite or suburb of San Jose or Santa Clara pre-WWII, it was officially incorporated as a city in its own right in the 50s; this was precisely to establish its own city status and avoid the tag of "suburb of San Jose", and prevent annexation to any of the numerous sprawling city areas that were encroaching on it in the post-war period.  If (again, with due respect) your assessment was correct, then Cupertino would be a suburb of each of the cities of San Jose, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Saratoga and Campbell, and they would all be suburbs of Cupertino at the same time.  Altogether, they form part of the conurbation of Santa Clara Valley, or Silicon Valley, or whatever name might be chosen for the wider urban region.  If Cupertino was not incorporated as a city, then today I guess it could quite rightly be considered a suburb of one or other of the other beighbouring cities. Some of us may refer to "suburban cities", but that doesn't make it correct.

(Coolcaesar - your second piece above I agree with, that's just colloquial English - but that doesn't support an arguement that Cupertino functions as a suburb.....) Anyway, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.....! 86.46.32.169 (talk) 00:43, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * AnonIPfromIreland, you're arguing against the common perception. (And you're writing in British English, which leaves doubt about your story. I'll assume that's not a problem for now.)  You know where the boundaries of Cupertino are.  I know where they are too, having lived in that area before.  But even most residents of the South Bay, not to mention visitors, can't find that border without the help of a map.  So it appears to the outsider to be part of San Jose, like it or not.  There is no doubt that each city asserts its own identity.  And it's just plain Human nature to want to be proud of where you're from.  But these cities are all part of the same metro area.  So there's a definition of suburb that can't be argued away.  Wikipedia deals with multiple definitions and perceptions, and has to roll them all into one. And no one person or region owns any page. So either we work together toward consensus or there are problems. So are you going to cooperate or just "fundamentally disagree" forever? Ikluft (talk) 02:20, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I fully concur with Ikluft. Also, I'd like to expand on one of Ikluft's points.  86.46.32.169's story is a little odd.  Americans don't use the terms "on holiday," "conurbation," or "neighbouring," they use "on vacation," "metropolitan area," and "neighboring."  Second, Cupertino doesn't have a sanitary division.  Sanitary services are covered by the Cupertino Sanitary District, which is actually a special district independent of the City of Cupertino.  The District also provides sewer services to portions of Saratoga, Sunnyvale, and Los Altos.  A strategic planner working for a California special district would never make that mistake of confusing the special district with a city government!  --Coolcaesar (talk) 09:45, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sweet Lord, you have got to be kidding me... you are actually using this talk page to claim I'm not American, rather than simply debate the point in question?? First, since when does every single person in America use exactly the same vocabulary? My family is of recent European heritage, so excuse me if I don't speak whatever you believe counts as the only vocabulary that makes someone an "American". Second, conurbation is a technical term, used worldwide - and as a technical term it is not necessarily the same as "metropolitan area" - look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls. As to my profession... you're joking, right? You really think that's what the Talk page is for? Try to debate a point by reasonable argument, or don't bother. The bottom line of my post is that this is an online encyclopedia, and if we are to provide accurate definitions of terms, then conflating them with colloquialisms causes confusion. Of course the outsider could think Cupertino was part of San Jose, just like an outsider might assume Crawley is a part of London City, Miami Gardens part of City of Miami, or Vatican City a part of the City of Rome - that doesn't make their assumptions correct! "Suburban city" is an incorrect oxymoron, like "rural town". Feel free to bounce a comment back, but less of the trolling. 86.46.32.169 (talk) 11:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Apple Employees
The cited document does indeed indicate the 34,300 figure, however it's not a factual accounting, and the perhaps more credible source, Steve Jobs, has stated a figure of 12,000 (in the area).

see Apple's Steve Jobs appears at Cupertino City Council Meeting

--Gillwill (talk) 22:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Chinese
Another Chinese name:
 * "您想讓孩子學習中文嗎？趕快註冊." - February 15, year not stated
 * "北加州庫市中文教育委員會" - Cupertino Area Chinese Language Education Committee - CACLEC
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 23:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Sister Cities
Isn't Cupertino also a sister city to the capital of Orissa/Odisha, India? 71.22.155.114 (talk) 21:01, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * There's no mention of it on the city's web page about its sister cities. Do you have a means to substantiate your claim? --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 07:38, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Dramatically Skewed Demographics
I think it would be good for the article to mention the dramatically skewed demographics of Cupertino, as compared to the county in which it is located. Whereas Santa Clara County is 32% Asian, Cupertino is 64% Asian. And whereas the county is 27% Hispanic, Cupertino is only 4%. The public schools are even more dramatically skewed. This is a fairly new phenomenon in America - the elite ethnic ghetto. --Westwind273 (talk) 06:04, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * More importantly, has it been mentioned anywhere else? We need a WP:RS in order to make a reference to it. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 07:40, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The most well-known article is the 2005 Wall Street Journal one: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113236377590902105.html  There are other articles as well.  --Westwind273 (talk) 13:22, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Currently it says in the second graf of the summary: "Cupertino is not very diverse, with over 63 percent of the city's population being of Asian ancestry in 2010." This seems a bit loaded, and I might change it to something like "Cupertino is notable in that its demographics do not reflect the surrounding county at large." --Blue Wizard (talk) 21:26, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Does anyone know where the name "Cupertino' came from?
--209.77.205.2


 * When Juan Batista deAnza passed by in 1776, he christiened what is now Stevens Creek "Arroyo

San Guiseppe da Cupertino" in honor of Saint Joseph of Cupertino (italy) --Jiang 23:52, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the only Catholic church in Cupertino is St. Joseph of Cupertino parish. --Xiaopo &#8465; 08:20, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, a store named the Cupertino General Store was there. (Not clear on the name)

Is the described origin of the toponym a verified one? Being the town named after Saint Joseph of Cupertino and the town Copertino in Italy (sister city of Cupertino), I think the toponym of the two cities has a common origin, hasn't it? In this case, the origin of the toponym is NOT that described in the text. Source: I'm from Copertino, Italy. Even the origin of "Copertino" name is not certain; the best hypothesis is the name deriving from "conventio" (populorum), latin word for "union" or "agreement", meaning the aggregation of people survived to the descruction of some "casali" ("casale" is like a rural village). Since then, the name evolved to "Conventino", "Convertino", "Cupertino" and finally "Copertino". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Magooz85 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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Manoj Sharma
The following coordinate fixes are needed for

—59.98.175.101 (talk) 15:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * You haven't explained what problem you're reporting. Nevertheless, I've adjusted the coordinates in the article a bit to correspond to those in the cited GNIS entry. If you still think that there is an error, you'll need to provide a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 17:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)