Talk:Curbar Edge

Educational Project Page
This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn,_2021) The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student User names are:

Limelightangel (talk) 11:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * LIUClevin1
 * LIUCMara1
 * LIUCrebecca1
 * LIUCEma1
 * LIUCfalco
 * LIUCMarco7

Error with references
Reference 1 is incorrect, and has two errors in the template used to create it: 'Ref name' is incorrectly used, and the author field is wrong. A better, more authoritative, source could be found to evidence rock geology and altitude, not a climbing blog.There are also two references for the 1. notation, to two different locations. Reference 3 has errors in red that need fixing in the help resources. Limelightangel (talk) 13:02, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Useful Content and Source: Climbing History
The following content, and source, may be useful to a section on this page on the climbing history of Curbar Edge, which is extensive, and significant in the broader development of both the sport and grading standards. This historical information is largely in printed, specialist sources: Some on the earliest known climbing activity was by Peak District pioneer, Jim Puttrell and the Kyndwr Club. They are known to have attempted a very early climb on Curbar in the 1900's, finally ascended by Chapman and Thomsett of the Polaris Mountaineering club in 1948 and now called PMC/1. The Valkyrie Club, with Joe Brown and Slim Sorrell, first visited in early 1948, resulting in the first ascents of routes including The Brain, and Bel Ami. Subsequent visits in the 1950's by this group led to their first ascents of the three cracks of Left Eliminate (originally known as 'the little crack on the left'), the Peapod and Right Eliminate (originally known as 'the Great Crack'). All this information can be sourced to the book, High Peak: the story of Walking and Climbing in the Peak District, by Eric Byne and Geoffrey Sutton, published by Secker and Warburg, London, in 1966 (1st edition). Don't miss the obvious link out related to Joe Brown. Limelightangel (talk) 16:58, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I've read the message and it's absolutely relevant for the history of Curbar Edge. We're surely going to use these pieces of inofrmation for the page. LIUCEma1 (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Accidental submission of draft page for review

 * on 18/10/21 user LIUCfalco accidentally submitted the early initial draft for review, by hitting the blue 'submit draft for review' button. I have deleted the page code that generated the review process, which should terminate this process.  Limelightangel (talk) 19:07, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your correction. LIUCEma1 (talk) 09:28, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you sir. LIUCMara1 (talk) 09:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Structure
How do we want the structure? I edited a photo to the right that every title of our articles are on the left. But it was undone. It is not a problem but we should not work against each other. I would want that everything looks consistent. For me would that be:
 * every title on the left
 * pictures on the same height as the title on the right
 * beneath the titles the first picture is on the right and should there be two pictures left and right. LIUClevin1 (talk) 19:53, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Content regarding /* In Poetry */ section
I've found that in wikiSource it's said that the poem "Night on Curbar Edge" ,written by William Watson, is in the public domain worldwide because it was published before January 1, 1926 and because the author died at least 100 years ago. Here is the link to where this piece of information is https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Yellow_Book/Volume_1/Night_on_Curbar_Edge Do you think it's relevant to insert the poem in the draft page? LIUCEma1 (talk) 12:18, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * a section of the poem, or an exhibit of the poem title, would be appropriate. Limelightangel (talk) 07:47, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Notable Fact
You may wish to consider the notable fact that in 1975 Curbar Edge appeared in the first photographic guide for rock climbers in the Peak District. The reference for this is book: Rock climbing in the Peak District: A photographic guide for rockclimbers, by Paul Nunn, 1975, 1st edition, 311 pages, published by Constable,, London. ISBN: 0094619409 Limelightangel (talk) 16:16, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for this piece of information and for the source. I've added it into the draft page in the "History of climbing" section LIUCEma1 (talk) 13:42, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you sir. --LIUCMara1 (talk) 18:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Draft review 27/10/21

 * I've added a new infobox with an image of Curbar Edge and its maximum and minimum elevation. I'm having problems citing the sources of the data that I've inserted in the infobox. LIUCEma1 (talk) 14:36, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
 * A better Infobox template should be used. The current template is for a settlement. The page for Stanage Edge uses a mountain template, but better alternatives may be available.  Look at existing similar pages Limelightangel (talk) 07:33, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion. I've changed the template of the infobox to from a settlement template to a mountain template, though I'm still searching for better alternatives. LIUCEma1 (talk) 07:45, 31 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The current structure needs revising. While climbing is a notable sub-topic, it is not the first section. The page needs sub-sections on location, topography, geology, ownership, definition, boundaries, it's use as a grouse moor, etc.  It also needs sections on External Links, and See Also.Limelightangel (talk) 07:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The page needs maps and exhibits (and possibly a Gallery), and the incorporation of a GPS location.Limelightangel (talk) 07:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The summary of the climbing (Climbing on Curbar Edge) requires a better factual overview of the type of climbing, the range of climbs in different grades, and the grades of any notable climbs.Limelightangel (talk) 07:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * thank you for the feedback and suggestion, I have completed the table and have sorted the hiking trails in order of difficulty - from easiest to most difficult.
 * Thank you, I have added more climbing trails, following the already existing table, consequently, I have reorganised them following the already taken path, from easiest to most difficult.LIUCMara1 (talk) 12:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


 * The section on 'Curbar Edge Walk' requires a summary of the walking routes, not unnecessary detail on just one walk. It contains inappropriate subjective content (e.g. 'amazing views') and an incorrect link out in red.Limelightangel (talk) 07:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I added more walks and also cycling routes LIUCMara1 (talk) 17:51, 5 November 2021 (UTC)


 * There is inconsistent use of case in section headings Limelightangel (talk) 07:45, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Linking out: the page is missing much content that enables relevant links out e.g. to the Peak District, Peak District National Park, and the local areas and adjacent village(s). Limelightangel (talk) 07:52, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the feedback, I have added some more content taken from the suggested websites. LIUCMara1 (talk) 12:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


 * A range of grammar issues have been corrected.Limelightangel (talk) 07:53, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I have corrected some spelling mistakes and I have added missing puntuaction. LIUCMara1 (talk) 12:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Picture
I reworked the big picture. If you want it in another chape, without border etc. Write me and I can explaine it. LIUClevin1 (talk) 14:21, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I moved some photos and enlarged them to make the page more tidy. LIUCfalco (talk) 18:37, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I wrote an email to get permission to use some photos from the prehistoric monument. LIUClevin1 (talk) 19:44, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

I added an image in the activity section I added a picture regarding the geology section of the page, the picture was taken from wikimedia commons. LIUCMara1 (talk) 11:03, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Got the picture down from our side till i have fixed everything with the permissions and copyrights. LIUClevin1 (talk) 12:44, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Grammar
I've corrected issues with capital letters. LIUCEma1 (talk) 13:58, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Improved references
I've improved reference 4 and reference 23. LIUCEma1 (talk) 13:59, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

refereneces in films
I added some references in the section "Curbar Edge in films". LIUCfalco (talk) 17:10, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I added one more which can be used for the rest as well probably someone found out how to use the same reference multiple times LIUClevin1 (talk) 10:03, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

subsection
I moved the history of the name in the first section containing the summary and created a subsection

I moved the part "The Bible Stones" in the Curiosity section. LIUCfalco (talk) 11:45, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Correction of the section for Curbar Walking Routes
I have corrected the section about the numerous walking routes, I found the paths displayed but I am not so sure that are all the existing walking routes.LIUCMara1 (talk) 22:21, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Climbing Section
I added climbing paths with their respective difficulty grades LIUCMara1 (talk) 17:49, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Map
I added a map in the section 'Location'

It would be good to have a map in the Mountain Infobox under Geography if someone can find a map image for that. LIUClevin1 (talk) 19:40, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I edit a map and put it into the infobox LIUClevin1 (talk) 08:12, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Map is back in the infobox. There is a problem which I still have to solve. LIUClevin1 (talk) 16:36, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I fixed the problem LIUClevin1 (talk) 10:52, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Copyright violations
I’ve removed content from the section Geology for the following reasons: 1) The content in that section is copied and pasted from an external website 2) The content in that section about Stanage Edge, which already has an existing page, therefore it’s not relevant to Curbar Edge

Copying and pasting from external websites violates wikipedia’s copyright and anti-plagiarism policies. Please LiucMARCO7 review Copyright and plagiarism violation module to avoid further publishing copyright protected content LIUCEma1 (talk) 08:24, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Correct Information
I looked at the Curber Edge Paragliding paragraph and couldn´t proof in the reference that this information is about curbar edge. Please bring proof. LIUClevin1 (talk) 10:27, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you LIUClevin1, you were right, I made a mistake, I have now corrected it. LIUCMara1 (talk) 15:46, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Irrelevant Image
I have removed a picture potraying William Watson. William Watson already has an existing wikipedia page and is also not relevant to this wikipedia page. LIUCEma1 (talk) 16:57, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Errors with references
There are two errors with references that shall be corrected before proceeding to send the draft page for review. First issue: reference 1 and 2 are duplicate. Second issue: reference 14 is used twice with different content, wikipedia sees this as an error. LIUCEma1 (talk) 08:55, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * resolved issue regarding duplicate reference 1 and 2 LIUCEma1 (talk) 08:55, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I've corrected issue regarding reference 14 LIUCEma1 (talk) 11:36, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Draft Review 15/11/21

 * External links: See External links, and other pages for the conventions here.  They  should not be formatted just as URLs.  I would expect these to include authorative sites like the Peak District National Park, the British Mountaineering Council, etc.
 * URLs formated as Hyperlinks. LIUClevin1 (talk) 11:35, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * See Also links: See See alsos, and other pages for the conventions here. Understand what constitutes relevant and acceptable external links. These should not just be URLs, and should not duplicate links to other pages used in the text.
 * Added Portals, And direct links to other Wikipedia Pages who are related to Curbar Edge and not mentioned yet. LIUClevin1 (talk) 12:13, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * References: a number of reference formats are incorrect, particularly related to using the Cite> Web template e.g. refs. 47, 54, 56 and 57 need the required fields completing in the relevant template, including publisher information (often at the bottom of the relevant webpage). Ref. 51 should correctly reference the film, not IMDB. See Manual of Style/Film and Citing IMDb. Ref. 31 has inconsistent font for the page title.  Ref. 14 has an error in red that needs fixing.
 * I've solved error regarding ref. 14 LIUCEma1 (talk) 10:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I've fixed references 56 and 57


 * Links out: there is 'under-linking' on the draft. See Manual_of_Style/Linking. Examples of obvious missing links out include Millstone, Coal Measure and Grouse shooting.
 * I introduced the missing internal links you spotted. Thank you professor. LIUCfalco (talk) 14:55, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * the co-ordinates in the location section are not required. They are already in the InfoBox.
 * Fixed LIUClevin1 (talk) 08:59, 16 November 2021 (UTC)


 * missing references and content: e.g. the Location section has no references. It also needs more on the location e.g. distances from major cities, defining boundaries, notable points, neighbouring/defining road numbers, White Edge, Big Moor, names/locations of features, name of the surrounding moor and ridge behind the edge, etc. The introduction to the Prehistory section needs a reference, and many books exist for this.
 * I added in the paragraph 'Location' distances from major cities linked to other wikipedia pages and mentioned White Edge and Big Moor.
 * we are also trying to solve the issue of the reference, if we can't manage to fix it we will delete that part.
 * I've reorganized in the section 'Location' the part of the distance from major cities, further specifying the position of the Edge with respect to the towns.


 * Image captions. See Manual of Style/Captions. These need to be clear in terms of what and where they show, particularly as they are not stored on the draft page to give them meaning e.g. 'Rock Climbing on Curbar Edge, Derbyshire, UK', etc.  See if you can edit the incorrect image caption in location, which is just a filename.  Correct the grammar in the caption with 'fromed grindstone', and 'gated entrance', etc.
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I changed the caption for the pictures, and I corrected the spelling mistakes LIUCMara1 (talk) 11:56, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * irrelevant content: some of the content in Flora/Fauna is irrelevant to the page topic, including all the content related to river Derwent, river fish, etc. Some of the content under Geology is generic to the broader area and irrelevant to this page e.g. about gritstone, which has it's own page. There is information available specific to the explicit geology of the topic.
 * I fixed the part in the section 'Flora and Fauna' about the river
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I reorganised the section about geology as proposed. LIUCMara1 (talk) 20:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)


 * factual accuracy: I have already corrected several significant factual errors on the draft (e.g. number of climbs, etc.). The max. and minimum elevation data is unclear, and I can find no point on Curbar Edge as high as 389 meters using maps or Google Earth.  Check these.  It is simply not true that this was '1 of 4' areas for quarrying millstones.  Get and reference better information, as there were many more. Is it a venue for hang-gliding, paragliding or both?


 * content: check the status of the moor behind Curbar Edge as a grouse shooting moor. It was in the past, but if this is no longer the case, the text related t this is irrelevant.  You may wish to include this in the history section if it has been discontinued as an activity.  Certainly access to this edge was forbidden until recent times and the creation of the access movement and the National Park - I think because it was grouse moor. If you research 'accident curbar edge' you will find content related to incidents involving local mountain rescue teams, notable Edale MRT. Are there deer on Curbar Edge? There are certainly no otters.
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I added a section about the deer rut LIUCMara1 (talk) 20:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have moved the part of grouse shooting moor in the history section, thank you for the suggestion. I have also fixed the error about otters.


 * comply with the conventions on abbreviations like 'BGS' when you use them. See Manual of Style/Abbreviations.


 * image locations: try to place relevant images next to the text they relate to e.g. the image of the millstones should be in the section related to quarrying millstones, not in the section on The Historical Development Of Climbing on Curbar Edge.
 * I checked the whole layout of the page, now the images should all be in the right place, in alignment with the right section.


 * style: See Manual of Style. Avoid the use of words like 'meanwhile' - it is not a story.  The moor is not 'filled with' prehistoric sites. It is 'films', not 'movies' (they are mainly documentary films).
 * The wrong use of the word "movies" has been changed as suggested LIUCMara1 (talk) 11:13, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * the misuse of the words has been corrected for the different sections of the page LIUCMara1 (talk) 11:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Talk page: understand that this is for discussion, responses and ideas on the topic, not just to say 'I did this, I removed that, I added this', etc.


 * consistency and conventions: check the format for things like m for meters, and 18.5m x 15 m. Is this the correct style for these measurements?  See Manual_of_Style and look at other pages.
 * I changed the measurements with constintency for all the draft page, now is possible to see first the measurment following the English standards, and secondly the ones used in Europe. LIUCMara1 (talk) 13:20, 17 November 2021 (UTC)


 * structure/sub-section names: consider renaming the sub-sections on 4 mile walk, 6 mile walk, etc. These are just names given by specific guidebook writers, and not official names. It may be better to have the name of the walk as the start and end point e.g. the 4 mile walk is really 'Calver village to Curbar Edge; the 6 mile walk is really 'Froggart, Curbar and White Edge'; the 8 mile walk is 'Froggart, Curbar and Baslow Edge'; etc.
 * Thank you for the suggestion, I corrected the names for the walking routes. LIUCMara1 (talk) 11:16, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Limelightangel (talk) 20:58, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the options to improve our side. LIUClevin1 (talk) 09:00, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

New sections
I've insert two new sections: "Books" and "Similar Edges" and I've added content to them LIUCEma1 (talk) 12:21, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I've added two more books and I tried to link to other existing wikipedia pages but I could find no writer who already had a wikipedia page.

errors with references 2
I've fixed red errors with references in the reference section LIUCEma1 (talk) 12:11, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Changes to the structure
I have moved the sentence about the elevation of Curbar edge from the paragraph 'Origin of the name' to the 'Location' paragraph, because that information doesn't refer to the origin of the name but to location in general.