Talk:Curling at the 2014 Winter Olympics – Men's tournament

Tiebreakers?
Should there not be a note of what the tiebreakers are? 78.86.124.13 (talk) 13:52, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, there should be. Usually teams are sorted by head-to-head record. Source: http://www.worldcurling.org/download/?dl==AFVxIkVWZ1RhxmRWR1aatWVFlVeWxGcvdlRkRzUXhXV (WCF Rules of Curling).


 * (a) A team tied for a place in the play-offs is not eliminated in any way other than by losing an extra game.
 * (b) In determining the member association(s) to be challenged/relegated, tie-breaker games shall be played, as necessary. No team in a challengeable position shall avoid being challenged other than by winning an extra game.
 * (c) The following criteria (in order) will be used to rank the teams at the completion of the round robin:
 * (i) Teams will be ranked according to their win/loss record;
 * (ii) If two teams are tied, the team that won their round robin game will be ranked higher;
 * (iii) Where three or more teams are tied, the record of the games between the tied teams shall provide the ranking (should this procedure provide a ranking for some teams but not all, then the record of the games between the remaining teams that are still tied shall determine the ranking);
 * (iv) For all remaining teams whose ranking cannot be determined by (i) or (ii) or (iii), ranking is determined using the Draw Shot Challenge (DSC). The DSC is the average distance of the Last Stone Draws (LSD) which were played by a team during the round robin portion of a competition. The single least favourable LSD result is automatically eliminated before calculating this average distance. The team with the lesser DSC receives the higher ranking. If the DSCs are equal, then the team with the best non-equal LSD receives the higher ranking. In case all LSDs are equal, the team ranked higher in the WCF World Rankings is ranked higher.
 * (v) The final ranking of teams that lose in a tie-breaker will be determined as follows:
 * 1) Teams that are eliminated in an earlier tie-breaker session are ranked lower.
 * 2) Teams that lose in the same tie-breaker session are ranked according to the same criteria as (c) (ii), (iii) and (iv).

-- Lejman (talk) 12:11, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Semifinals

 * Canada are certain to finish 2nd in round robin, since they'll win any tie with China due to head-to-head record now.
 * The struggle for 3rd/4th spot is trickier. If one team of GBR and Norway win their game, and the other team loses, the losing team is out.
 * If both teams lose, Norway-GBR play a tiebreaker.
 * If both teams win, China, GBR and Norway all end on a 6-3 record, with a win each in the head-to-head. Then the particular "LSD" rules will determine which two teams play the tiebreaker game. -- Lejman (talk) 18:21, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Playoffs bracket
I don't believe that the brackets in the playoffs section should include the tiebreaker. Naturally, being that the playoffs section details the playoffs games (semifinals and medal games), the playoffs section should only include brackets which summarize those games. The tiebreaker should be kept separate from the knockout stage. If the case was that the tiebreaker stage was more elaborate, it would be separate from the knockout stage/medal round, as it is in most other curling articles, and I don't see why that should be held consistent across all articles. I believe the five-team template would be better used for a summary of this event, which this is not. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 20:18, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The tiebreaker is apart of the single elimination portion of the tournament, and unlike the Page Playoff format, it presents very easily in the 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 format. It also makes the pages consistent since it is the same format used for the tournament four years ago. (Also regarding the issues of consistency please note that the World Curling Federation does not use consistent formats for the Olympics and other major tournaments. I agree that including the tie breakers in a Page-Playoff bracket would look awkward.)--MorrisIV (talk) 20:36, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * While I agree that it presents better in this format than the page playoffs format, I still believe that it should not be included in the playoffs section. I understand that it can be presented as part of the elimination portion of the tournament, but I don't think that it should then be necessarily presented in this manner. I don't agree with the format used in the article for the previous Olympics on the same principle, and I don't think that any inconsistency in the WCF's playoffs formats factors into this, as we are more concerned about consistency in the way that the sections for the playoffs are organized for our curling articles on Wikipedia. The playoff stage of the tournament involves the top four teams of the tournament, determined by the stages held before the playoff stage (i.e. the preliminary round/round robin and any necessary tiebreakers). These stages held prior to the playoffs stage should be kept separate. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 07:55, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * If the tiebreaker is going to be included as a seperate section, above the playoff heading, then it should be removed from the brackets. If it stays in the brackets, then shouldn't it be included as a section above the semifinals? 97rob (talk) 11:53, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This is what this discussion is for. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 15:46, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that the four-team bracket would be enough, with the tiebreaker match included with the same level of detail as the round robin matches. 97rob (talk) 17:16, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * If you don't like how it's presented then what is your alternate? Keep in mind that Tiebreakers are distinct from the Round Robin. 97rob - The box scores for tie breakers have always been presented with the same level of detail as the semifinals and medal matches (see the 2012 Women's Worlds. No one has ever raised an issue with this. Prayerfortheworld, how many members of the WikiProject Curling did you invite to this discussion?--MorrisIV (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * In that case, I think it should remain as it is; the article is consistent with previous curling competitions, and there isn't really any issue here. 97rob (talk) 18:37, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The tiebreaker should be presented with the same amount of detail, as MorrisIV said. The discussion here is regarding the brackets included in the playoffs section. MorrisIV, I actually didn't think to invite anybody else to the discussion, I'll do so right now. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 20:06, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't really care, but I suppose I lean towards excluding the tie breaker, just for the fact that we don't have a page playoff template that includes tie breakers. Including tie breakers would create a precedent that would mean including it in all curling articles. (Not an idea I'm opposed to, to be honest). -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:52, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether there is any consensus here, but I also wanted to offer this thought in conjunction with the arguments in my second post. I don't feel that the bracket represents the playoffs scenario correctly, since it could be interpreted as having both Great Britain and Norway advance to the playoff round, while in actuality, they play the tiebreaker game in order to advance to the playoff round. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. It's probably the strongest argument I've seen for this topic, so I would now be for removing the match from the brackets and mentioning it briefly within its own section, between the round robin and playoff sections. 97rob (talk) 23:12, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd like to close this thread as soon as possible, so if there are any other comments, it'd be great if they are made soon. Thanks. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 17:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * We can go ahead and close the discussion. But we will want to revisit the issue if a template for a page-playoff with tiebreakers included is created. Also, the box score for the tiebreaker should show the game percentages of each competitor. That is a standard that is applied to all curling pages (Olympics, Worlds, Europeans, etc.) and should not be changed here.--MorrisIV (talk) 17:51, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I believe that the consensus will be that the playoffs bracket will display the four playoffs games (semifinals and finals), and that the tiebreaker game(s) will have both the linescores and the player percentages displayed, as it always has. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 10:17, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

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