Talk:Customer service/Archives/2012

Revision Tracker
Please sign off on your comments in this section (shortcut : 4 tildes


 * Added the Reference section CSReader 05:56, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Wrote a new Introduction, which includes a definition of customer service, followed by a brief history; moved previous introduction to an Overview section. I will edit that and subsequent sections as time permits CSReader 07:07, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed commercial External Links CSReader 07:23, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Combined old sections "Gains of good customer service" and "Consequences of poor customer service" into one table/section (Impact of customer service). Still needs a lot of work. CSReader 17:16, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Combined old sections "Factors which contribute to good customer service" and "Factors which contribute to poor customer service (what not to do)" into one table/section (Tips & Traps). Still needs a lot of work. CSReader 17:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Reduced "Impact of customer service" to a single-column table ("Effects of bad service" column was just the opposite of the first column); renamed to "Benefits of customer service"; deleted redundant entries, added some, reorganized. CSReader 00:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Replaced previous "Overview" with "Strategic advantage through customer service" CSReader 03:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Replaced "Tips & Traps" with "What customers want". Edited, deleted, and added entries. Organized into 4 categories. Needs more work. CSReader 05:02, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Moved "Greeting Customers" to Discussion page for now (see below). CSReader 05:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Wrote the "Customer service culture" section, and introduced its subsections for future development CSReader 13:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Wrote text for "What customers want" section. CSReader 20:35, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Reviewed source material for "What customers want" and added some factors CSReader 21:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've gone and wikified throughout the article, and removed the wikify tag. If it's not enough, please feel free to add the tag back to the article. Robovski 00:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks good Thanks! CSReader 22:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Guidelines & Help

 * Create a Wikipedia account and sign in for major edits
 * Keep the Five Pillars in mind
 * Read how to edit
 * Read how to write a great article
 * Refer to the Wikipedia Manual of Style
 * Use Wiki Bibliography to add to the Reference section

Proposed Outline
This article needs an outline. Here's something that might serve as a starting point. It's based on Yale University's Customer Service Institute curriculum. I'll leave this up here for a few days. If there are no objections, I'll start editing and developing the article along this outline. CSReader 00:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Lining up sources today, linked to outline headings. For now, these link to excerpts of sources cited in my blog. The final article will link to primary sources. CSReader 03:54, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

So I don't butcher the work of those who'd already contributed to this entry, I've decided to draft the entry in my blog first. You can watch it develop here CSReader 05:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

That's not working out so well. So I'm trying to build the content www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/ here instead. CSReader 13:37, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

CSReader 13:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC) My blog is good for taking notes on my readings, but not for organizing them. My www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/ lens in Squidoo is a much better tool for that. In the outline below, I've marked with an L those topics and readings that I've been able to put in a more logical order.

I'm revising the outline as I go along. For example, I created a section called "Customer service culture", and subsumed ideology, hiring, and training as subsections there. But I'm keping the outline below in place, as it's a handy organizer of source material CSReader 14:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Introduction
 * Definition
 * History
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1298144 Impact of customer service L
 * On organizations
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1297889 On providers L
 * On society
 * Focus on the Customer
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1286445 What customers want L
 * Service maps, value chains, moments of truth
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1296536 Complaints & recovery L
 * Dysfunctional customers
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1296963 Customer surveys L
 * Standards & competencies
 * Standards of customer service
 * Customer service competencies
 * Evaluation (suggested by Dr Susan Meyer)
 * Policies, Systems, Processes, and Structures
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1305456 Ideology L
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1288002 Hiring L
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1305915 Training L
 * www.squidoo.com/CustomerServiceReader/#module1297243 Recognition L
 * customerservicereader.typepad.com/customer_service_reader/leadership/index.html Leadership]
 * Processes that affect customer service
 * References (Books and Papers)
 * External links (non-commercial only), description

Definition
Oxford English Dictionary 2e definitions of Customer and Service CSReader 06:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

customer, n 3. a. ‘One who frequents any place of sale for the sake of purchasing’ (J.); one who customarily purchases from a particular tradesman; a buyer, purchaser. (The chief current sense.) c1480 in Eng. Gilds (1870) 317 To wt-draw from yor M., ne from no brother of {th}e craft, any of ther costomers.

service, n 31. a. Provision (of labour, material appliances, etc.) for the carrying out of some work for which there is a constant public demand. 1853 PAPWORTH Museums, etc. 15 Regulations as to admission into public museums..the porter not to allow the entrance of any person out of the hours of public service. b. Expert advice or assistance given by manufacturers and dealers to secure satisfactory results from goods made or supplied by them. 1919 W. H. BERRY New Motoring xxiv. 183 The need of a better service system for motorists has often been emphasised... There is ample room for a big development of a scheme for rendering practical car service.

customer service n. - assistance and other resources that a company provides to the people who buy or use its products or services. Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English CSReader 01:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Customer service is the set of activities and programs undertaken by retailers to make the shopping experience more rewarding for their customers. These activities increase the value customers receive from the merchandise and services they purchase. (Levy & Weitz 2004) CSReader 05:17, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

EB definition from Logistics - Customer service involves an array of activities to keep existing customers satisfied. An example is computer software manufacturers who allow consumers to telephone them to discuss problems they are encountering with the software. Servicing equipment in the field and training new users are other examples of customer service. The term user-friendly is sometimes applied; the firm wants to develop a reputation as being easy to do business with. Firms continually monitor the levels of customer service they—and their competitors—offer. They might use machines to record how many times customer-service telephones ring before being answered or what percentage of requested repair parts they can deliver within a certain time span. 24.6.165.211 04:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Customer service is the provision of labor and other resources, for the purpose of increasing the value that buyers receive from their purchases and from the processes leading up to the purchase. CSReader 07:17, 12 March 2006 (UTC), based on definitions above

Cleanup
Removing this plug, and related remarks:

Virgilio Y Paralisan in his ebook "The Six Dimensions of Customer Service" and his blogsite http://customerservicetools.blogspot.com said that "Customer Service is a concept that is usually presented as a collection or patches of complementing activities done by an individual or a group of individuals.

It is seldom presented as a process or a system that an organization manages to seamlessly and effectively deliver solutions (product or service) to customers.

The conventional approach is to teach people to respond to customers using the telephone or handle a live person-to-person interaction specially when there is a dissatisfied or complaining customers.

All the things that you will do to build your customer service program will most likely be within the realm of the following dimensions: The Customer, The Service Concept, The Service Process, The Tools, The Business Plan and The Team."

Also removed this: "Certain entire classes of organizations are well known for generally bad customer service, such as DMVs." That may be true, but it's a whine that does not belong here.

- Ed 12.28.05

Brain Colors?
While I was interested in the Psychology section, I don't think the section on "brain colors" is a highly recognized theory, or if it is, it isn't explained very well and doesn't link to another section that explains what the colors mean. Instead, it sounds more like someone is trying to push an idea to ultimately push a product. --Pordaria (talk) 23:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

It still feels baggy
It still feels baggy with sections that might be redundent. Someone more familiar with the subject matter might be more confident making cuts. --Tomheaton 21:35, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Removed this paragraph: "Most of the customer service programs are actually damage control or image protection ploys. I am also a customer for many services and most of these customer service programs are really just cheap scams or are downright shameful tactics to evade doing additional after-sales commitments."

Opinion with no source. The concept of deceptive customer service may be owrthy of mention, but in a more formal way.

Greeting customers
(CSReader 14:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC) Moved this section from the article, until I figure out a good way to put it back.)

Greeting customers is an important part of customer service and customer care which can leave a lasting impression on customers.

The following table shows positive and negative forms of greeting and dealing with customers: Please note that cultural differences may play a major role in the interpretation of things such as touching hands, arms, and shoulders and giving hugs.

顾客服务

Editorial remarks by 136.159.142.24 moved from article
Customer service, at its utmost, is primarily concerned with the homogenization and elimination of humanity from within those who make up the industry, reducing the traits, eccentricities, and quirks of its followers into a bland, automated system of responses. This consequently reduces opportunities for the most basic of equal human interaction, subsequently transforming the customer-employee relationship into that of master-slave. This reduction of humanity into a process of automation encourages the growth of the companies which practice excellent 'customer service', ensuring the elimination of dissent, and the subsequent ability to conduct an operation of global economic domination. Ultimately, as Arendt writes,the struggle for total domination of the total population of the earth, the elimination of every competing nontotalitarian reality, is inerent in the regimes themselves; if they do not pursue global rule as their ultimate goal, they are only too likely to lose whatever power they have already seized.


 * Interesting, but not a neutral point of view (and thus contrary to "Pillar 2") CSReader 04:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Possible Additional Material
Below is the additional material I was thinking of adding. Please use it at your discretion:

Customer Service Levels []
Perhaps the most important aspect of customer or client service, in terms of delivery of a product or service, is that it should be available when and where the customer wants it. If this is not the case, an immediate sale may well be lost. More importantly, long-term sales may also have been lost if the customer is forced to change to another brand, and then decides to stay with that brand.

The percentage availability is described as the 'service level'. It might seem that the simple answer would be to achieve 100 per cent availability; but the cost of achieving this rises very steeply as the service level approaches 100 per cent. There is a very clear trade-off here between customer service (level) and cost. Fortunately the indications are that, in terms of demand generated customers are not significantly affected by minor variations if there are generally high levels of availability. The usual `S' shaped curve probably applies.

Lead time
However, there are other elements of customer service level, one of which relates to the time it takes to meet an order (where the product is not delivered `ex-stock'). This is called the `lead time' (or sometimes the `order cycle time'). Clearly, the shorter the lead time, the better the service. On the other hand, it is frequently the case that it is the 'reliability' of the lead time that is more important. A customer who has to arrange a number of other activities to mesh in with the delivery of the product will often prefer that the delivery date is certain - even if it is later than it might have been - rather than face uncertainty. Another important element is the response time: how long it takes a customer to find out what is actually happening to the order. In the specific context of queues associated with provision of a service, David Maister lists a number of `proportions':
 * 1) Unoccupied time feels longer than occupied time ...
 * 2) Preprocess waits feel longer than in-process waits ...
 * 3) Anxiety makes waits seem longer ...
 * 4) Uncertain waits are longer than known, finite waits ...
 * 5) Unexplained waits are longer than explained waits ...
 * 6) Unfair waits are longer than equitable waits ...
 * 7) The more valuable the service the longer the customer will wait ...
 * 8) Solo waits feel longer than group waits ...

Faults
The other measure, perhaps most immediately obvious to the customer, is the fault rate. This may be divided into two categories: In many markets, this means that in order to avoid delivery of out-of-date products, or goods beyond their expiry date, the distribution chain has to operate a rigorous FIFO (First In First Out) control system; whereas LIFO (Last In First Out) is more normal and natural - the latest addition to stock being loaded at the front of the shelf, pushing the older stock to the back.
 * Errors - involving the wrong `product', quantity or price, or delivery to the wrong address, should not happen; but they do --and far more frequently than you might expect.
 * Faulty or damaged goods - are usually what `quality' is seen to be about; and customers, understandably, expect 100 per cent performance in this area (but rarely get it, except in the standardized mass consumer markets).

Customer Service Quality []
The elements described so far largely relate to the narrow perspective of 'service levels' in the consumer goods market. 'In the other sectors, particularly that of industrial goods, `customer service' may be even more important; and certainly more complex'. For example, it is often stated (not least by the company itself) that IBM's success – at its peak in the 1980s - as a marketing company as almost entirely due to its commitment to `customer service'. In the service sector (particularly in the area of personal services), customer service is often, by definition, the `product' itself. The `quality' of the customer service represents the quality of the `product' the customer is buying. Indeed, in many service sectors the customer has to buy the service `on trust'; since it cannot be inspected before use. Monitoring such customer service, and maintaining standards, may be particularly difficult for some service providers; especially where there is a high content of personal service (for example, in hotels and catering in the private sector, and in hospitals in the public sector).

Laws of Service []
David Maister formulated two `Laws of Service'. The first of these is expressed by the formula: “Satisfaction equals perception minus expectation. If you 'expect' a certain level of service and 'perceive' the service received to be higher, you will be a satisfied customer. If you perceive this same level where you had expected a higher one, you will be disappointed and therefore a dissatisfied customer. The point is that both what is perceived and what is expected are psychological phenomena - not reality [and it is the relative level of service, related to expectations, which is important, not the absolute one]...” “Second Law of Service: It is hard to play `catch-up ball'. There is also a halo effect created by early stages of any service encounter ... the largest payoff may well occur in the earliest stages of the service encounter [a problem early in the provision of the service sours the whole process].”

Customer complaints []
Complaints are often treated as a nuisance by organizations, and yet they have considerable value for a number of reasons: Whatever the reason, the sensible marketer will want to know exactly what has gone wrong, so that remedial action may be taken. The first rule is that 'complaints should be positively encouraged'. Theodore Levitt stated: “One of the surest signs of a bad or declining relationship [with a customer] is the absence of complaints from the customer. Nobody is ever that satisfied, especially over an extended period of time. The customer is not being candid or not being contacted.” That is not the same as saying that the reasons for complaints should be encouraged. But, assuming that despite your best efforts the problems have occurred, you should put nothing in the way of any customer who wants to complain; and, indeed, positively encourage such complaints --since the main problem lies with the many more customers who do not complain (and instead change to another supplier) rather than the few who abuse the complaints system. The second rule is that 'all complaints should be carefully handled by painstakingly controlled, and monitored, procedures'. Complaints must be handled well, and must be seen to be handled well; by the complainant, and by the organization's own staff. The third, and most important rule, is that 'the complaint should then be fully investigated, and the cause remedied'. Complaints are only symptoms. The disease needs to be cured! There may be an understandable temptation to overlook complaints until they reach a `significant level', but holding off until the complaints reach this `pain threshold' usually means that they have already become damaging to the organization's image. It is far better to assume that `one complaint is too many': The reality in most organizations is very different. The number of complaints are minimized not by remedying the reasons for them but by evading the complainants. The erroneous assumption is usually made that complainants are troublemakers, and have to be handled in a confrontational manner.
 * 1) Although there will always be a small proportion of `frivolous complaints', a complaint usually highlights something which has gone wrong with a part of the overall marketing operation; usually, a sufficiently high quality has not been achieved.
 * 1) The way in which a complaint is handled is often seen by customers, and their many contacts, as an acid-test of the true quality of support. What is more, it is also a powerful reminder to the organization's own staff of just how important quality is.
 * 2) Not least, customers who complain are usually loyal customers (those who are not loyal simply tend to switch to another supplier), and will continue to be loyal and valuable customers - as long as their complaint is handled well.

Customer satisfaction []
Most dissatisfied customers do not complain (up to 97 per cent, according to a US survey), but they do tell their friends (the same survey showed that 13 per cent complained to more than 20 other people). On the other hand, as Philip Kotler pointed out, a satisfied customer: Any organization should be highly motivated to make certain that its customers are satisfied; however, in practice, remarkably few do so. It is essential, therefore, that an organization first monitors the satisfaction level of its customers. This may be done at the `global' level, by market research. Preferably, though, satisfaction should be assessed at the level of individuals or groups. The results should be analysed to produce overall satisfaction indices, and also provided to field management so that they can rectify any individual problems. It is possible that many retailers may not be able to use such information at the individual level, although some service providers may want to keep track of the satisfaction of their regular customers. However, they may track satisfaction levels by branch, to detect unwelcome deteriorations before they do untold harm.
 * 1) Buys again
 * 2) Talks favourably to others about the company [although, as reported in the survey quoted above, only to three others - compared with an average of eleven others when complaining]
 * 3) Pays less attention to competing brands and advertising
 * 4) Buys other products that the company adds to its line

Satisfaction Surveys
There are a number of advantages to conducting satisfaction surveys (particularly where any individual problems highlighted can subsequently be dealt with):
 * like complaints, they indicate where problems lie
 * if they cover all customers, they allow the 96 per cent of non-complainants to communicate their feelings, and vent their anger

The importance of very high standards of customer service can be demonstrated by two examples. The marketing philosophy of McDonald's, the world's largest food service organization, was encapsulated in its motto `Q.S.C. & V.' (`Quality, Service, Cleanliness and Value'). The standards, enforced somewhat quixotically on its franchisees and managers at the `Hamburger University' in Elk Grove Village, Illinois, require that the customer receive a `good tasting' hamburger in no more than five minutes, from a friendly host or hostess; in a spotlessly clean restaurant. It is salutary to observe how few of their competitors manage even the simple task of keeping their premises clean. The second example, Disneyland, also insists on spotlessness, and on the customer being `the Guest'; whereas the terms used in the fairground trade (with which Disney competes, albeit at a very different level) usually see the customer as some form of victim - `pigeon', `mark', `punter' and so on - to be fleeced before the fair moves on.
 * they positively show even the satisfied customers that their supplier is interested
 * they help to persuade the supplier's staff to take customer service more seriously

Why satisfied customers defect
Hi - great article that I just stumbled upon. One point that it got me thinking about is the Jones and Sasser (? - not checked it) work on why satisfied customers defect: you make the point that complaining has a beneficial effect, but it goes further than this, and satisfied customers who have had no negative experiences go to competitors who messed up a bit but then remedied it. Cheers --BramleyBarn 10:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

References revisited
Anyone else have a problem with the body of the article being (currently) 16 sentences, while there are 34 references? While there are many top-quality references listed, I'm wondering how many are actually being used as sources. --Ronz 05:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I propose separating any references that appear to actually be sources from the rest, then move the non-sources to a list of books on Customer service. --Ronz 03:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Was just going to mention this. The references are the largest part of this article, and not one is actually citing the context. Needs a serious trimming.--Hu12 04:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Moved from article: --Hu12 04:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Clark, Hannah. Customer Service Goes to Hell.
 * Consortium for Research on Emotional Intelligence in Organizations Emotional Competence Framework. Retrieved March 14, 2006.
 * Software and technology tools in providing improved customer service]. Retrieved December 05, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * Clark, Hannah. Customer Service Goes to Hell.
 * Consortium for Research on Emotional Intelligence in Organizations Emotional Competence Framework. Retrieved March 14, 2006.
 * Software and technology tools in providing improved customer service]. Retrieved December 05, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * Software and technology tools in providing improved customer service]. Retrieved December 05, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.
 * National Performance Review (1998). World-Class Courtesy. Retrieved March 12, 2006.


 * "Software and technology tools..." is a spam link. It's one of many to bestpricecomputers.co.uk that is self-published by an anonymous author without any references of it's own, on an ad-heavy site. --Ronz 04:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Customer Service
Customer Service is the giving of labor and other resources to satisfy a customer's needs. This often being includes friendly to the customers and making sure they get the right products and other things.

Red links
I have noticed that there are several red links in the see also section should i consider removing them if they dont have an independant article by one week. Comments welcomed. 59.92.135.113 (talk) 15:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed unclear paragraph
Have removed the following: If anyone can tidy it up and/or make some sense out of it, please do so and return it to article.--Technopat (talk) 22:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Customer service is a group of related things, which are designed to provide a good level of customer satisfaction, and there is the feeling has to be met by product or service to the customer expectation.

nozir da freak —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.219.119.150 (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Links
[disclaimer] Warning. Wikipedia newbie here. I request that you be gentle with me. I'd like to contribute, and rude people discourage me from contributing.

In response to Hu12 comments regarding my attempted contribution to this page (that he wrote on my talk page), I write as follows (I'm not even sure this is the right place to write these comments---to give the reader a chuckle, I'll admit that I first posted this on my talk page):

Thanks Hu12, for your comment and constructive criticism, but I'd like to defend my change by explaining that I was neither advertising nor spamming in adding the external link. The site that I linked to is the first of its kind that I've ever seen and IMO shows extreme promise towards reversing the severe trend towards bad customer service that exists in nearly every company and nearly every industry now. The service is only six months old (at least, that appears to be the case based on this article: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/12/prweb1697064.htm ) and I'm trying to help the community by making other people (almost all of whom are affected---usually negatively---by customer service) aware of this service. I see this service as being the only effective means of reversing the trend in customer service, for I've written many letters to CEOs regarding same and these have almost universally been ignored. So, would you please explain (again, in different words if you feel you've already done so for I don't see how this violates policy) to me how my addition violates any wikipedia policies? I mean only to help the community with this addition. Not to promote any service. I realize that the difference between these two can be (and obviously is in this case) subtle, but these are my intentions. CyrillicNews (talk) 02:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * see External links policy and What Wikipedia is not. We do not promote products or services.
 * Additionally your link Fails Wikipedia's core content policies:
 * ”Verifiability”
 * ” Questionable_sources”
 * "Verifiable Reliable Sources"
 * ”Self-published sources (online and paper)”
 * ”Reliable sources”
 * ”Self-published sources” --Hu12 (talk) 21:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Please explain how my attempted addition of a link to a free, commercial, consumer protection service in this article is different from the presence of a link to a free, commercial, consumer protection service in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluejacking entitled Basic Symbian s60 phone protection and linking to symbiancentral.com/help-desk/guide/basic-symbian-s60-phone-protection.html

I think the two are identical in character and if so, then I think my link should be in this article based on the example I cite. If you think differently, can you help me understand why? Thanks.

CyrillicNews (talk) 12:24, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding that link. It's been removed from Wikipedia and the editor that added has been warned. --Ronz (talk) 17:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, I guess. I thought the link was reasonable, but as a newbie I'll accept your decision to have that link removed.

In this dialogue, as I read both of your comments, and as I also read between the lines to get a sense of your tone of communication, I find myself becoming a bit frustrated and annoyed (not that you should care about this except that I have a lot to contribute, I'd like to contribute to wikipedia, and you're discouraging me from contributing and in doing so, you're harming the project, for the project claims to want volunteers to contribute content).

The reason I'm getting a little frustrated and annoyed is that I get the impression that both of you perceive your roles here to consist mostly of saying "no," and while that may be true (to keep spammers at bay), I think your role should be more than that. I also get the impression that you think I'm trying to promote the service in question. I'm not. I am, however, trying to improve all products and services by teaching people about effective ways of complaining about various products and services and customer services. Traditional ways are patently ineffective which is why the vast majority of companies have such abysmal customer services.

It seems silly to oppose the statement that the wikipedia is a project with the mission of informing the public (as is the case of any encyclopedia). And it seems that this dispute between me and the two of you falls under the words in the about page: "Unresolved disputes between editors, whether based upon behavior, editorial approach, or validity of content, can be addressed through the talk page of an article, through requesting comments from other editors or through Wikipedia's comprehensive dispute resolution process." and I suppose it could be said that we're in the process of resolving this dispute (one way or another), but the approach that both of you are using with me strikes me as ironically similar to the way that most companies handle customers who attempt to use their customer services to resolve problems: just say no often enough and in as many different ways as possible until the customer gives up and goes away, thus making your jobs as easy as possible (to add still more irony, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Customer_service#Customer_complaints_.5B.5B4.5D.5D ). I too will eventually give up and go away and while that may make your jobs easier, I think that would be an unfortunate event because I admire the wikipedia project immensely for it has taught me a great deal, and if I eventually give up and go away, it would mean to me that the wikipedia is going the way of most non-profits: declining in purported mission effectiveness and focusing instead on the self-serving goal of continuing to exist.

So I guess here's my last attempt to accomplish my goal of educating the public about effective ways of complaining about customer service and thereby improving customer service.

Please take a look at the wikipedia article for Radio Paradise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Paradise

Near the bottom of the article, there are many external links, some in the "In the News" subsection. I've cited a news article describing the service I attempted to link to in this article above. Do both of you believe that following the example of the Radio Paradise article and including an "In the News" subsection that contained a link to the news article I mention above would be inappropriate? If so, please explain why it's appropriate for the RP article and not for the CS article. Given the results of my last attempt to use an existing example where someone else does what I'm trying to do, it occurs to me that a possible result of my referring to this new example will be that those links under "In the News" in the RP article will go away, and I've made my own copy of the web page as a contingency against that result for I (as one wikipedia reader) appreciate having those links in that article and I venture to guess that most readers do also.

Unless one of you does something inherently different in character (say, perhaps educating me about an appropriate way to do in wikipedia what I'm trying to do or pointing me to what you believe is a more appropriate project for doing what I'm trying to do) than what you've done before with regards to my attempt to educate the public about effective customer service complaint systems and contribute to the wikipedia project, I will give up and go away and make your jobs easier. CyrillicNews (talk) 19:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Crappy beginning
Why does the article start with a reference to someone that no one knows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.190.16.150 (talk) 20:28, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

A formal excerpt of ISO 10001.....
Could anyone please provide me this info, as again, the searches from both google and yahoo do not return positive results

http://search.yahoo.com/search?n=10&ei=UTF-8&va_vt=any&vo_vt=any&ve_vt=any&vp_vt=any&vd=all&vst=0&vf=pdf&vm=p&fl=1&vl=lang_en&fr=yfp-t-501&fp_ip=CN&p=ISO+10001&vs=

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=ISO+10001+filetype%3Apdf&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=&aq=f&oq= In this google's search, the first is a draft and the second is not an excerpt and yet not free --222.64.211.242 (talk) 13:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Links to standards
I've removed the links to the standards, as they all require payment to access. If need be, we can easily find a reference that shows that the standards exist and what they cover. --Ronz (talk) 17:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Simple question
What is "KPI"? The term is used in the article, but with no explanation of what it means. Or am I being obtuse?Maelli (talk) 11:12, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It is linked at least once as Key Performance Indicator. Kuru   (talk)  14:10, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Opening sentence
The lead sentence is: "Customer service is the provision of service to customers before, during and after a purchase." This seems to be a too-literal definition.

Firstly, although customer service may concern the service provided, it is not the actual service provided; it concerns only that part of the service at that directly involves the customer. (A garage fixing your car is a service, but customer service does not include the performance of work on the car.) Secondly, customer service is about 'higher' aims such as the quality of the customer's 'experience.'

Can I suggest either something less literal or leading straight in with a quoted definintion? Pololei (talk) 10:34, 20 January 2011 (UTC)