Talk:Cutlery/Archives/2013

?
Can someone inform an ignorant Brit - how much is the term "cutlery" used in the US? I have done this article as "cutlery also silverware" rather than the reverse, because I think that "cutlery" is understood everywhere, while "silverware" certainly isn't. I just have this feeling that people can't possibly refer to "plastic silverware" - though stranger things have happened. seglea 05:18, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I doubt if you asked random Americans, half of them would not have any idea of what cutlery is. ebeisher. I always thought cutlery refered to cutting things such as knives and such. Anyway, most people say silverware, or to the undereducated, sporks :-). Anyway, check out - ebeisher

Egad, you're right! On the other hand, a Google on plastic cutlery throws up a good number of US sites (as well as UK ones), whereas there's no UK usage of "silverware" at all... so I think it is probably the right way round. However, I can detect a tendency for "cutlery" in the US to also mean specifically cutting instruments (probably another case where US usage preserves an older English usage, actually - cutlers were specialists in knives, as the name suggests). I'll try to add something to the article to identify that.

Thanks for the spork reference, that's a great article, and I've linked it. seglea 05:37, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, being from Canada I am aware of both terms, as well as "flatware". Flatware appears to apply to eating utensils whereas cutlery refers more specifically to knives and scissors; as apparent in some product websites: ]]

I would like to find a reference to the types of plastics used in the manufacturing of cutlery. (Judging from the picture, polyester is one of the chemicals.) I find that some plastic knives will react to the chemicals in an orange rine and become so soft that the resultant plastic goo can be removed with a fingernail. (Quite evident if the plastic is black in color.)  Maybe I could then, with the help of a chemist, track down the reaction and chemical byproducts. (whaug) 17:48, 060118

Well, I'm from Toronto, Ontario, Canada and here, cutlery means forks, knives and spoons. I have never heard someone call scissors cutlery, nor have I heard the term flatware in my life. Silverware is said sometimes, but is uncommon. -- Anyquestions 16:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Silverware is reserved for actual silver. At least it's always been for me. I live in Southern Ontario. 24.141.56.32 (talk) 19:46, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

The second sentence ("Cutlery refers to any hand implement used in preparing, serving, and especially eating food in the Western world. It is more usually known as silverware or flatware in the United States, where cutlery usually means knives and related cutting instruments.") makes no sense. steveborgatti Steveborgatti (talk) 22:04, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Knife and fork
I ended up on this article curious on how we ended up with the cutlery we did. A search for "knife and fork" wielded little. Perhaps a new article on the history of using a pronged thing with a cutting thing (as opposed to fingers or chopsticks)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.32.66 (talk) 20:31, 2 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The typical 4-piece combination we have here in the USA (knife, fork, tablespoon, teaspoon) is what they used in English in the late 1700s, with spoons exactly the same size and shape as what we have. The fork is the most recent addition. Even though the Romans had serving forks, the idea of eating with a fork is probably from about the Renaissance. Spoons have been around since the Neolithic (see picture in spoon article). The Vikings used to carry spoons around with them in spoon cases, which hung on their belts. In Bronze Age barrow mounds, people are buried with their spoons and spoon-cases. The knife goes back to the Lower Paleolithic, about two million years ago. Back then knives were called rocks. They had a bit of an edge to them. Zyxwv99 (talk) 03:37, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Globalise?
Some one was tagged this article "globalise", complaining that it is all about western tableware. I seriously wonder how useful it would be to do that. It is my understnading that the Far East uses chopsticks (which are not cutlery, as they do not cut). Other regions use their fingers, sometimes with the assistance of a knife, but that would be better dealt with in an aricle on knives. An alternative might be to change the title to reflect its content better. Suggestions please. Peterkingiron 11:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree on a relative irrelevance of that (ugly) tag, and share exactly your thoughts regarding chopsticks (for example). I'm not specialized on the topic, but inhowfar "cutlery" is used to refer to something else than that of the "western world" the article is about? It does not pretend to be about something else than "cutlery". I strongly encourage the next person who also shares this opinion to remove that "worldwide" tag.&mdash; MFH:Talk 21:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * PS: finally, I did remove it already now, and added "in the western world" to the 1st phrase. It had already been there and then deleted earlier, if I understand well the history.
 * However, the chopstick would deserve a little phrase + link somewhere in the article, I think. &mdash; MFH:Talk 21:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Odd Photo
Am I alone in finding the "used cutlery" photo rather an odd, not to see mildly revolting, choice? Also, the caption could be read as implying that plates and drinking glasses are classed as cutlery. Mutt Lunker 22:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * agree on both issues: I removed that pic and moved up again the "modern" image. &mdash; MFH:Talk 21:51, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

A notable Cutler ?
Should mention be made to the profession and notable professionals in the field of Cutlery / Knife Making. I am refering especially to Jody Samson. He has made several swords for notable films. (eg. Conan the Barbarian, First Knight, The Mask of Zorro, Blade, Blind Fury, Batman & Robin, Batman Forever). His apprentice specifically calls herself a cutler while Jody only refers to the profession of Cutlery. Exit2DOS2000  •T•C•  19:07, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I would suggest the fact that Jody does not have an article is a good reason for not adding a link. Furthermore, the production of swords or knives for use on film sets is hardly a major aspect of cutlery production.  Peterkingiron (talk) 21:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Portugese
Some one has properly reverted the statement that the Portugese introduced cutlery to England. This is certainly wrong for the knife and the spoon, but who did introduce the fork? Peterkingiron (talk) 21:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

WP Sheffield, Assessment
Better refs and some expansion should get this to a C class article in my opinion - BulldozerD11 (talk) 13:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

images
Removed some images - cutlery manufacture doesn't consist of "some blokes hammering at a steel billet" - mostly presses and a LOT of polishing. Also see Image_use_policy.

FengRail (talk) 17:49, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

History
Does any body know when people started using cutlery as in eastern cultures food is eaten by hand59.180.30.201 (talk) 07:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

They're called utensils...
They're called utensils. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.241.6.19 (talk) 20:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Why does eating utensil redirect here?
As far as I can tell, this article is primarily related to western eating utensils. There is no representation or discussion of how other cultures eat. Why not have an eating utensil page, merge this in under 'cutlery' and reference the various othe utensils people tend to use?208.79.244.67 (talk) 20:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I've changed the redirect at Eating utensil back to its original target - List of eating utensils - which needs some work. -- Quiddity (talk) 21:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

More history
I know only two interesting facts about "cutlery," "silverware," "flatware" or whatever one wishes to call them. First, the forms that we are familiar with are fairly recent, leading me to wonder what people used earlier, when modern eating utensils were invented and by whom, etc. What were typical Roman utensils, for example? Secondly, that until the mid-19th century U.S. forks had only three tongs, and in the Revolutionary period, typically only two. I am obviously not qualified to add to the history section of this article, but can someone who knows more please expand it along these lines? I suspect the history of silverware is quite interesting. I think chopsticks, etc., belong in a whole 'nother article.Amity150 (talk) 05:14, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Specific & reliable sources needed
Greetings. I encountered this page while doing a general search on cutlery. I thought I'd check out the Wikipedia article before moving on, as well-written articles can contain good source material. However, this article, while enlightening on a couple of things (e.g. cutlery history) appears erroneous on one item. That of the use of hardened steel in laminated blades.
 * Firstly, the citation given for this is not specific enough. The link goes to a general site with no clear indication of where verifiable information may be found on this subject. If I was writing something on that, I'd start by checking a copy Machinery's Handbook if I could lay my hands on one. It's not called the engineer's bible for nothing. All good libraries will have this. There are other sources of course, but off the top of my head this one always springs to mind as one of the single-most reliable starting points. An internet search is also bound to bring up one or more articles specifically detailing this stuff.
 * Secondly, I did a bit of a double-take at the statement that a layer of hard steel may be laid between two layers of milder, less brittle steel. I'd have thought it would be the other way around (cf case-hardened steel), although on reflection I can see why one might lay the hard steel in the middle, given that a sharpened blade's edge will be approximately in the middle. Either way, what is needed is a decent, verifiable source. Wotnow (talk) 23:31, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Flatware
In the UK, flatware refers to flat crockery such as plates and saucers. Having flatware redirect here, instead of to a disambiguation page is biased. Also, the crockery section points to a flatware page that redirects here.--81.132.198.48 (talk) 18:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I changed it to a Disambiguation --Saehrimnir (talk) 16:52, 3 July 2012 (UTC)