Talk:Cyberiada (opera)

Translation questions
In the role table, "Volk der Gewindianer" was translated as "The Screwed Indians". This seems a little odd. I changed it to the "People of Gewindianer" pending some explanation for the "screwed Indians". Sometimes, it's better not to translate completely. In Lem's original story, the Gewindianer seem to be the subjects of King Voluptatus and there are two warring factions of them. See this. Also "Degeneräle" is translated as "de-generals", but there is no such English word as "de-general". Is "Degeneräle" perhaps an untranslatable German play on the words "degeneriert" (degenerate) and Generäle (Generals)? Voceditenore (talk) 16:10, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Tricky to translate puns (German or not), consider them just as suggestions. "Gewindianer" plays with Gewinde (Screw thread) and Indianer (Indians), Degeneräle with Degeneration (Devolution (biology)? or Degeneration (medical)) and Generäle (Generals), - feel free. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:31, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Gerda is correct in her explanation of the puns. E. g. the "Gewindians" come in two factions: the left-turning & the right-turning ones. Get it? The Polish & English title itself plays on cyber- and Siberia, although this has been lost in the German translation. The stories are full of these wordplay-names, a bit like in the Asterix & Obelisk stories.
 * Given that the 1st staged performance was in German, there is a case for listing the roles in German. However, that was a translated performance and now there's a Polish one, so maybe Polish should be used (difficult to do and not helpful for the reader). For the translation of role names, Michael Kandel's work could be used or leave them as they currently are, essentially untranslated. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:50, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Just noticed: there's an English cast list at Sikoski's web site: http://media.sikorski.de/media/harmonia/w1001106_002.pdf (also in German). That should solve the problem. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:56, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding this, only: they didn't translate the funny names which add a lot of flavour to the whole thing, at least for me, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

In the end, I left the "Gewindinaner" untranslated, but explained who they were in the opera. For "Degeneräle", I used Degenerals (as used also in Michael Kandel's English translation of the original Lem story) and again explained who they were. I don't think we should get into speculating about the mechanism of the German puns in the article itself. Plus, in Polish some of the names are quite different. See here. For example, the German "König Voluptatus"... In the Polish version of the opera, he's "Król Rozporyk", and in Kandel's translation of the original stories, he is "King Zipperupus" (also used in this English review of the May 2013 Polish production). There's a lot of material on the Polish production, but alas almost all in Polish. I'm going to list it below, in case we get any editors who are fluent in speakers and might be able to use the material to expand parts of the article. Voceditenore (talk) 10:55, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you, the wanted flavour is there, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Polish-language resources for the May 2013 production

 * http://zwierciadlo.pl/2013/kultura/teatr/cyberiada-w-teatrze-polskim-w-poznaniu


 * http://www.opera.poznan.pl/page.php/1/0/show/3189/


 * http://www.culture.pl/multimedia-pelna-tresc/-/eo_event_asset_publisher/d6SF/content/cyberiada-w-teatrze-wielkim-w-poznaniu-%5Bfoto%5D


 * http://www.gloswielkopolski.pl/artykul/906242,nie-bojcie-sie-opery-wspolczesnej-recenzja-z-cyberiady,id,t.html


 * http://www.polityka.pl/kultura/teatr/1544285,1,recenzja-spektaklu-cyberiada-rez-ran-arthur-braun.read

Voceditenore (talk) 11:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I will ask someone to have a look, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:11, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ Mostly OK. I put in a couple of them in. Poeticbent talk 18:23, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:57, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * My pleasure. Poeticbent talk 23:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that's very helpful! I've removed the material about the music from the lede and put in the background section, just before the sentence about it winning the composition prize. The lede shouldn't really have stuff that isn't actually in the body of the article. I also removed an earlier citation from Janusensemble.free.fr (not added by me). It was a verbatim German translation of the copyright English biography of Meyer and descriptions of his works by his publisher Sikorski here. I have substituted this for the citation where the Janus Ensemble had been used. Note that this Sikorski source is OK for information about the premiere conductor, director, etc. However, it erroneously calls Sem's Cyberiad a "novel", an error corrected in their fuller description of the work itself here. This latter source is used for 2 other citations in the synopsis section. Voceditenore (talk) 08:15, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

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