Talk:Cyclone Freddy/Archive 1

Category 5
Where do you see that on February 15 or 16, Freddy was category 5 in the reference. Furthermore there was never a message from the JTWC or BoM that I could find describing of this kind of winds?

Pierre cb (talk) 15:22, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Please check the best track data for Freddy by JTWC: 115.96.137.143Talkcontibts 10:25, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * There were amendments to the intensity of Freddy from Cat 4 to Cat 5.  HurricaneEdgar    11:16, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes 115.96.137.143 (talk) 12:44, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * What column are your looking at as there is NO column titles? Furthermore, were can I find amendments of the regular bulletins of the JTWC that point to that? Pierre cb (talk) 23:11, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Similar to Cyclone Dingani, the JTWC used the best track data whenever they were updated.  HurricaneEdgar    03:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

"only three systems"
It might be pertinent to determine how long the Indian Ocean has had weather satellite coverage to qualify the statement. I would guess 20 years. I see it's actually 25:

https://www.eumetsat.int/indian-ocean-data-coverage-iodc

189.250.242.248 (talk) 07:12, 20 February 2023 (UTC) baden k.

Misinformed AP article
I tried to fix the wrong info in the Preparations - Madagascar section. The cited AP News article says “Madagascar’s General Directorate of Meteorology has issued alerts for the Analanjirofo and Sava regions”, which directly contradicts the General Directorate of Meteorology's social media pages (which are their main public communication tool). That section is now back to what it was before I modified it, so either my modifications were reverted, or they weren't saved to begin with. IS there any way I can fix that? Darhan (talk) 21:51, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

nominate the article into the news section?
freddy just had a pretty notable and major landfall that it just made. should it be featured in the 'in the news' section or we wait until more info comes out Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 01:50, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I would personally suggest that we wait until the impacts in Madagascar become clearer.Jason Rees (talk) 02:00, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Wait until the storm impact become clearer and clearer.  HurricaneEdgar    06:13, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it should be nominated soon since its getting too late and it has already finished its landfall Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 23:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Concur with the above. Landfall in Madagascar was a week ago and the system doesn't even exist anymore. This article risks going directly from "too early to be news" to "too late to be news". Darhan (talk) 16:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

The article was nominated in the end but I don't think it will be appearing on the main page as it thankfully seems that there were not many deaths or much impact as a result of the preparedness taken by people on the ground. Jason Rees (talk) 16:57, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Sub-article for Meteorological history?
Hello, Wikipedian! I also intend to relocate the text of the current meteorological history because it may be too long to read. see Draft:Meteorological history of Cyclone Freddy  HurricaneEdgar    07:30, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Sources for impact
If you have time please see these links for sources on Mozambique, Zimbabwe, and Madagascar. These will have local sources for impact and should help fill out this article more. Noah Talk 02:01, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * See this ITCZ which specifically mentions the remains of Freddy. Noah Talk 04:59, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've been confused by MFR's statement on the best track data that there is no longer a tropical disturbance being monitored.  HurricaneEdgar    05:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * MFR did mention it is no longer monitored through specific warnings. The ITCZ is the only source of information at this point. Wait and see what the next 12z ITCZ statement says. Noah Talk 05:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If i'm not mistaken about the third and fourth peak intensities, they are 145 kt for 1 min, 115 kt for 10 min, pressure 937 mbar for the third peak and 140 kt for 1 min, 120 kt for 10 min, pressure 931 mbar for the fourth peak. And yet someone canceled them with the reason "unsourced". Ridiculous ! Bóng Ma  - Talk   06:33, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem with adding peak intensities was that they changed in the best track data, for example, Cyclone Darian. As a result, I avoided adding peak intensities (third and fourth).  HurricaneEdgar    07:49, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * for today confirms Freddy is still alive. Noah Talk 14:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Will Freddy be able to beat the record for longest survival and longest distance if it is revived again? Bóng Ma - Talk   08:24, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe, just maybe. TheEasternEditer (talk) 00:39, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

It is expected to become a hurricane again
According to recent forecasts, it will beat Hurricane John.2605:8D80:325:50F7:EC51:768A:4D15:8509 (talk) 14:08, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It will indeed beat John. TheEasternEditer (talk) 14:56, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Likely on Tuesday. Layah50♪  (  話して～!  ) 03:21, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Freddy 2023 path.png

Cyclone Freddy current image
When attempting to upload the 060312Z the bot upload the 6 February images (maybe it is confused as the storm is extremely long-lived) Thingofme (talk) 14:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

longest-lived cyclone
Should there be a mention of lead if Freddy becomes the longest-lived cyclone on the planet? HurricaneEdgar   00:20, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, why not? It's even mentioned in John's article! Tails   Wx  00:22, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As long as there enough reliable sources suporting this statement, sure. Just let's not WP:CRYSTALBALL here, I'm sure that by midweek we'll have plenty of sources. ABC paulista (talk) 02:40, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that once John's record is broken, it should be noted as the "second longest-lived tropical cyclone", in the "See also" section, and John's article! Tails   Wx  13:20, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * John's record has been broken, and is now noted in the lead, as well as in John's article! Tails   Wx  22:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The record is not broken per the WMO. John still holds the record until a full scale investigation can take place to determine whether or not the record was indeed broken. Noah Talk 01:13, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright! Problem is, it's already noted across Freddy and John's articles. What should we do, revert and wait until the WMO officially announces it's broken? Tails   Wx  01:18, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Basically, since they are the final authority on which storm has the record. Noah Talk 01:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think that we need to wait for the WMO on the matter, since their methodology seems to be unknown for us, since we don't know how much they consider the RSMC data on it, and their record-keeping seems to be outdated, like the "Smallest Eye", "Largest Eye" and "Smallest tropical cyclones" seem to be, for example. ABC paulista (talk) 01:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * In this case I think its wiser that we wait for the WMO since they have announced an investigation, as there are too many variables to be considered. For starters, time should be allowed for the system to dissipate and the BT Process to be completed, as it might come back that Freddy wasn't a TC over Africa. Then the meterological community needs to ask itself how to define the record and if we need to add on some or take some time to/from either system to make it a level playing field. Jason Rees (talk) 09:19, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that, as long as we have reliable sources on the matter, we're good to go. The record-keeping from the meteorological agencies isn't the most reliable sourcing, since they usually keep several outdated records and inconsistent data. I think we should only disregard this case if the WMO directly states that the Freddy didn't beat the record. ABC paulista (talk) 16:33, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Even the official records are periodically revised afterwards to fix the old data on the storm strength. Thingofme (talk) 10:26, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) has announced the setting up of an expert committee to determine if Cyclone Freddy has surpassed the previous record for the longest-lasting tropical cyclone. For 33 days, it was a named tropical cyclone, traversing the entire South Indian Ocean and traveling over 10,000 km (WMO). HurricaneEdgar    14:18, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There are many inconsistencies and outdated data, like "Smallest Eye", "Largest Eye" and "Smallest tropical cyclones" on both WMO and NHC pages, for example, so I'm skeptical on how well they treat their record-keeping, and/or if they give it much care at all. ABC paulista (talk) 16:11, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, since they have gone on record to announce an investigation (as far as I can tell, this is unusual) into the record, I would say that waiting for the WMO is reasonable. I am not averse to listing the record as unofficial for now, citing preferably some experts; but the record isn't official till the WMO certifies it. And that's what the article should reflect.  Java Hurricane  17:20, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Record
This is now breaking the record as it now equalized the Leon-Eline cyclone. Thingofme (talk) 02:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Almost. Freddy has been tropical for 28 days, while Leon-Eline was for 29 days. It was a leap year in 2000. It will break the record on Sunday, and it might break John's record if it lingers around longer. SongdaTalas (talk) 06:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

John's record will be broken per the MFR and JTWC TheEasternEditer (talk) 14:26, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

This is a rare tropical cyclone that has broken multiple records. HurricaneEdgar   15:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Till now it has broken the record of longest living tropical cyclone (36 days), highest all-time ACE globally (82.2), farthest travelling distance in Southern Hemisphere (over 12,500 km), and number of rapid intensification cycles (7). If it goes back again to the Mozambique Channel, it will even break the worldwide record of distance traveled (13,180 km). Ustczyh9 (talk) 18:02, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

If my estimates are correct, Freddy will break the record for longest survival and five rapid increases in intensity. As for the longest path, at the current slow pace, breaking that record by John will depend on how long its ultimate lifespan is. Bóng Ma - Talk   00:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There are uncertainty with the forecast of the storm after Mar. 12 and it may increase the longevity even more. Thingofme (talk) 03:47, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

What if it develops for a third time?
Will it become a featured article if it does? 216.49.156.243 (talk) 02:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC) Current models predict it will move back to the Mozambique channel soon. https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.96.229.185 (talk) 02:36, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Eye smallest history?
Right now in the time of posting this question is also the time when hurricanes have the smallest pinhole eyes in history so pay attention to them for more interesting details. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 12:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This has now been canceled because eye was unstable and long-lasting at the time. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 04:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

925 hPa
On record Tropical Tidbit : recorded 925 hPa. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 03:48, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * But according to the MFR (Official Regional Specialized Meteorological Centre for the South-West Indian Ocean), the estimated peak of the storm is 931 hPa, and we don't recognize the estimated from the JTWC.  HurricaneEdgar    04:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Data in Zoom Earth recorded 924 hPa. Because don't plane chaser goto there, that is miss data. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 14:27, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * We still use MFR estimates and zoom.earth uses data from the JTWC. RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 22:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
 * JTWC : 925 & Zoom earth : 924 -> so 1hPa different. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 14:23, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * For more information regarding on resources see. Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Project resources  HurricaneEdgar    04:36, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That is so different data, this Quest don't have any Ans. 931 - 924 hPa. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 11:44, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Officially, the Joint Typhoon Warning Center (JTWC) estimated a barometric pressure of 924 mbars and Météo-France estimated that it has a pressure of 931 mbar. We are going to wait for the subsequent re-analyzes possibly in 2025 or before. МОДОКАУ 19:42, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * After the storm dissipates, it is hoped that the World Meteorological Agency can re-evaluate the pressure of this storm because it is C.5 but cannot be higher than the C.4 storm that is Darian in the period season okay. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 10:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * After the storm dissipates, it is hoped that the World Meteorological Agency can re-evaluate the pressure of this storm because it is C.5 but cannot be higher than the C.4 storm that is Darian in this period season.
 * C.4 Darian : 920 hPa
 * C.5 Freddy : 931 hPa
 * So Freddy has broken a lot of records, but without understanding what pressure gauge makes this year's TC season make Darian stand out, it's absurd. You should keep in mind that in the East Sea of Vietnam in Southeast Asia, the indicators are rarely accurate, while in the Gulf of Mexico of the United States of America, they are almost always very accurate, clear, and fast. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 10:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Mỗi cơ quan khí tượng chuyên phụ trách một lưu vực bão đều có hệ thống máy tính, vệ tinh ước tính và đánh giá sức mạnh cơn bão về áp suất và sức gió khác nhau, cho nên các chỉ số mỗi lưu vực là khác nhau hoàn toàn chứ không thể giống nhau được. Vệ Thần  - Talk  19:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * bạn có hiểu là cái áp suất nó được đo như thế nào không ? Với lại đây là một cơn bão được cho là kỷ lục với 4 kỷ lục mới được thiết lập nên nó không thể nào mà cao hơn cơn bão dữ dội nhất của mùa được nó phải xếp khoảng 920 tới 925 mới phải. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 04:16, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Air Pressure is not a perfect correlation with wind speeds but rather pressure gradient. Even though Freddy was observed with 1 minute sustained wind speeds of 145 knots per the best track of the JTWC, that doesn't automatically mean the cyclone is going to be 920-925 hPa. Look at extratropical cyclones for example, some of the most intense in the Bering sea was observed with 920hPa too which is equivalent to a Cat 5 by pressure but the wind speeds are only Cat 1 or 2 equivalent. That is because extratropical cyclones are bigger with a low pressure gradient, allowing the pressure to get so low without big wind speeds. It is also why Typhoon Tip was able to have such a low sea level pressure despite not having the strongest winds in a cyclone (owned by Hurricane Patricia) because it was such a big typhoon. In this case, Freddy was a smaller tropical cyclone than other Cat 4s and 5s this season but had a very high pressure gradient so even if they don't re-evaluate, it would make meteorological sense for them to assess it at a relatively higher pressure. 138.51.94.106 (talk) 02:35, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

TCR for Freddy (Australian Region)
Hello everyone, the BoM has released a tropical cyclone report indicating the development of Freddy on 5 February, which you can view here, thank you! http://www.bom.gov.au/cyclone/history/freddy23.shtml  HurricaneEdgar    02:26, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

rfc to reformat "Records"
IMHO having several and...and...and in a paragraph makes for difficult reading, maybe reform as follows?

Freddy was one of only four systems to traverse the entirety of the southern Indian Ocean from east to west.

The three other cyclones are. Hudah
 * 1994 :Litanne
 * 2000 :Leon–Eline

Freddy holds the following records.(as of date)
 * Longest-lasting tropical cyclone worldwide.
 * Beating the previous record of Hurricane John in 1994.
 * All-time highest accumulated cyclone energy of a tropical cyclone worldwide, with an ACE of 84.6
 * Breaking the former record of 82, set by Hurricane Ioke in 2006.
 * Was the first tropical cyclone to undergo seven separate rounds of rapid intensification.
 * GSMC(Chief Mike) Kouklis U.S.NAVY Ret. ⛮🇺🇸 / 🇵🇭🌴⍨talk 07:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The storm is still active
The current forecast should be added back. 63.92.68.32 (talk) 04:04, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Possible sub-article for Effects of Cyclone Freddy in X.
If the article becomes too long as a result of the impact of the cyclone, another article should be written about the cyclone's impact per (WP:TOOBIG). HurricaneEdgar   15:25, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We are a long ways from needing more. The prose is currently 23,383 characters and a split shouldn't even be considered until it's more than double that size. Noah Talk 15:48, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Questionable death in Mauritius
Hi:

I clicked on the reference for the 1 death in Mauritius but the link does not lead to a text explaining it. Either this death is not real, or it needs a better reference. As far as I am concerned, only the 16 missing sailors are valid for this country.

Pierre cb (talk) 23:06, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The source is a database that can only be accessed by people who have accounts. Noah Talk 23:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * What is the cause of that death and where? I can only find the 16 sailors missing in the text. Also, a free access reference would be much better. Pierre cb (talk) 03:11, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Cause of the death is never listed in a database. It's simply listed that a death occurred in Mauritius from Freddy. All stats are listed out at country level for an event. is the site for the database itself. Noah Talk 03:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is all very vague to be usable info. Pierre cb (talk) 03:51, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * All we really need to know is that someone was killed and where it happened. This is a credible source via its connection to the World Health Organization. Noah Talk 14:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If we need to know, it should expand the Mauritius Impact Section to inform the reader if the dead have been reported in the country.  HurricaneEdgar    10:28, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The only thing this source reports are stats related to affected, deaths, damage, etc. It's downloadable into an excel spreadsheet and simply contains the numbers and labels. Noah Talk 11:50, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Even if it excels, it should probably explain why the death toll occurred, or else it may go unsourced for the reader. (I will expand it when I have time).  HurricaneEdgar    12:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * It doesn’t go into much detail. It just states that the death was in Mauritius and blames Freddy for it. Noah Talk 13:39, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * but the reader doesn't know how to access the source, and they are confused about how the deaths in Mauritius occurred.  HurricaneEdgar    09:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not all sources can be accessed by readers. That's how it works sometimes. Some are guarded by paywalls and in this case, you simply have to register an account. Noah Talk 11:46, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * FWIW I have sent EMDAT a message to see if they have any further details available about the death. Jason Rees (talk) 04:22, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * EMDAT came back to me and pointed me in the direction of this source from the European Union.Jason Rees (talk) 16:11, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I did a little digging and found this which may be related, but I couldn't find an update. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 17:48, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Mauritian fatality
Hello, Apart from the EU commission source, I can find no mention of any fatality in Mauritius in local or international press

Could it be that the EU is mistaken?

Regards Varoon2542 (talk) 12:34, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Edit : I just realised that there was already a discussion on this issue above — Preceding unsigned comment added by Varoon2542 (talk • contribs) 12:36, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Condense the met history here
I followed this storm and wasn't sure about the separate MH article when the storm was still active, but considering the amount of impacts, it makes sense to have one. Therefore, it would be nice if the met history could be condensed even more in the main article, down to two paragraphs ideally.

The first one should deal with (Briefly) the development, why it moved the way it did (neither the main article nor the MH sub-article mentions much of that), and briefly get up to its peak intensity. The second paragraph would then be the three landfalls and redevelopment. We don't need to mention ASCAT passes, and every status change, just an overall summary of the MH. I'll do it later if no one wants to tackle it. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 18:15, 17 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Do you think it may be worth trying to get a completed interactive track to the met history article? There's quite a bit of point clustering on the normal track as is currently. I don't want to expend any further effort if it doesn't have any merit to it. Noah Talk 19:03, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ooh that would be great for the met history article! For the longest-lasting storm on record, it would be nice having that, particularly for any future GA or FA attempt. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk )  18:13, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
 * we need more images of the storm uploaded to properly make one. This includes all stages of its life. Noah Talk 23:54, 16 May 2023 (UTC)