Talk:Cyclone Mark V Engine

Let It Begin
I've been writing this article for a while now. It needs more citations and the images need to be checked to make sure they aren't copyrighted. However, I can verify that the information I have provided is almost entirely accurate. I've been researching this engine for years, and I have spoken to the inventor, so I have a decent understanding of how it works. Ethan McHenry (talk) 20:42, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Recommended Source
Here's an article that would improve your sourcing: Kelly, G. (2012, Dec 16). 106-year-old Ormond Beach speed record targeted. Daytona Beach News - Journal. We found this in ABI/Inform Michelev (talk) 17:33, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Another Recommended Source
Christopher, A. S. (2006). A steamed-cleaned engine. Automotive Design & Production, 118(7), 52-52 Michelev (talk) 17:49, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Water as a Lubricant
Ah, the age of steam. So romantic. So cool. It would be wonderful if actually worked. And it's close, so close. Just that little problem of lubrication to solve. But alas, that problem has proved intractible for 100 years. The idea that water, whether deionized, supercritical, or whatever, can be used as a lubricant in a high temperature, high pressure engine, is wishful dreaming. The only source given for that astonishing claim is Harry's website, and there's nothing there to support it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.137.134.50 (talk) 13:30, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, the article makes multiple claims with no credible third-party source to back them up - I've marked the more obvious ones as needing a citation. Without such third-party sources (which will need much better sources than pesn.com and the like), there may be good grounds for deleting the article entirely, or at least reducing it to a stub that merely informs readers that the inventor has made unverified claims. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:21, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I've added quite a number of references to information sources and think I've got all the unsubstantiated claims out. BuddyWhazhizname (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Boiler design
The boiler firebox and centrel coil stack is a copy of my design that was posted on my home page at Greenhills in 1995. I am not sure how to contest his patent. My intent of posting my design as stated there was to put the idea in public domain.

I used a single gun type burner in my small diameter design. But it was explained that multiple firing points could be used on larger designs. My design was a simple once-thru design. Not a multi path like Harry's. But the donut shaped fire box is my design. A Lamont or other stand pipe water level control system could be used. Harry knew me from my Web site when I first met him at an SACA meet. There are many who know that as being my design.

I have ran tests on the combustion products. Pratactly 0 unburnt hydrocarbons. At the time fuel air mix adjusted by hand. Nox was at the same level as my home heating furnace.


 * It's possible to challenge a patent at the US Patent office, but probably would involve lawyers and a lot of cost. But there are some things that make it not worth the effort.


 * First, you put your design in the public domain before Harry applied for his patent. So anyone can use the design.  If Harry tries to sue them, he'll lose, and will have the patents on his Cyclone engine invalidated by the court.


 * Second, when you get into the details of his engine patents, you see that there are about 10 things that all have to be there at the same time for the patent to protect it -- basically they are patents on the packaging of a steam engine system. All the individual parts have been widely used for many, many years, and can still be used by anyone as long as the whole bunch aren't used together at once.


 * Third, nobody has ever seen this engine run (or at least nobody I have ever been able to find). That's after 10 years and about $25 million dollars spent (reference: the latest 10-Q financial report if anyone is interested).  A patent is just a piece of wallpaper if it's for an invention that doesn't work.


 * An easy solution would be to add an entry in Wikipedia for steam generators, and see if Archive.org has an old copy of your home page. Link to that and it proves when you published your design.  Then add a mention in the Cyclone Mark V steam generator section with a link to the steam generator page showing your design and its history.  That will make it clear to everyone that the Cyclone design isn't Harry Schoell's innovation.BuddyWhazhizname (talk) 16:31, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Someone at Cyclone's parent company has been editing the page.
On March 5th there were 5 edits of the page from IP 50.73.156.243. That's registered to Schoell Marine, owned by Harry Schoell and Cyclone Power Technologies' landlord.

The edits
 * 1) changed the latest version of the engine from being "not protected" to "protected" by the patents.
 * 2) removed the statement that no Mark Vs have been delivered or publicly seen running.
 * 3) removed the statement that no Mark V proposed applications have been implemented.
 * 4) removed the statement that Chuk Williams' land speed record car was a proposed application.
 * 5) added "Projects delivered" with "Rathyon" (i.e., Raytheon) and "Tardac" (i.e., TARDEC, the U.S. Army Tank Automotive Research Development and Engineering Center), even though neither of these was a Mark V engine.

I've added some more references to support these issues.BuddyWhazhizname (talk) 16:08, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: March 19th. Someone from the same IP 50.73.156.243 (Cyclone Power Technologies) went through and deleted a bunch of statements about engines not be delivered, patents no longer covering the current engine design and changed the "Criticisms" section to "Claims", modifying the contents to be uncritical of Cyclone Power Technologies. I've just reversed all these edits. BuddyWhazhizname (talk) 18:56, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

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I have just modified 6 external links on Cyclone Mark V Engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923212136/http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/SB0511%20EngRoom%203.pdf to http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/SB0511%20EngRoom%203.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120119094540/http://www.cyclonepower.com/works.html to http://www.cyclonepower.com/works.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923212126/http://www.cyclonepower.com/2014/IAASP_Presentation_OSU-CAR_Cyclone_March-8-2014.pdf to http://www.cyclonepower.com/2014/IAASP_Presentation_OSU-CAR_Cyclone_March-8-2014.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140912154011/http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/Mark%20V%20Efficency%20Calculations.pdf to http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/Mark%20V%20Efficency%20Calculations.pdf
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402185945/http://www.cyclonepower.com/2014/Cyclone%20Genset%20Accepted%20by%20U%20S%20Army%20-%20TARDEC.pdf to http://www.cyclonepower.com/2014/Cyclone%20Genset%20Accepted%20by%20U%20S%20Army%20-%20TARDEC.pdf
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