Talk:Cyclone Tracy/Archive 1

older entries
I've found a few decent sources, but I don't feel like writing them up tonight, so I'll put them here, either for my own use in a couple days, or if anyone else feels like using them in the meantime.


 * http://www.ntlib.nt.gov.au/tracy/
 * http://www.nla.gov.au/ntwkpubs/gw/40/p15a01.html
 * http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/c20thc/cyclone4.shtml
 * http://www.naa.gov.au/Publications/fact_sheets/fs176.html
 * http://www.naa.gov.au/Publications/fact_sheets/FS90.html


 * Good work Ambi (you forgot to sign, silly :P) I'm going the State Library of NSW today to see what information I can find. Wish me luck! - Ta bu shi da yu 01:54, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The image I have on the page may be a copyright violation. Give me a little time and I'll submit this to Images for Deletion if I find a problem with it. - Ta bu shi da yu 01:54, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Have got a better picture anyway: see http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3112050 - Ta bu shi da yu 02:07, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * An even better and more illustrative picture is http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/picturescatalogue?action=PCDisplay&mode=display&rs=resultset-5743&no=13 - Ta bu shi da yu 06:02, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Qantas airlift
Gidday Aussies. You guys are closer, so maybe you can make a phone call to Qantas for corroboration of this, but on the Boxing Day, a bulging Qantas 747 flew a load of children from the airforce base out of Darwin direct to Sydney. They were strapped in two to a seat, and each had their name on a lebal safety-pinned to their shirts, blouses etc. They were met and looked after by Red Cross etc, and some of them didn't see their parents again for a very long time. Unfortunately, some never saw their parents again. Not a lot of publicity was given to the flight at the time because the aircraft was horribly overloaded, but that particular Qantas trip was still being talked about even in thelate 90s as being the greatest number of individuals (albeit little ones) ever transported on one flight anywhere. Cheers. Moriori 02:16, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the tip! I'll certainly check this out. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:48, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Qantas certainly flew a number of evacuation flights, and some of them were overloaded. I quote from this page on Qantas history


 * Still breaking new ground, Qantas set a world record in 1974 by evacuating 673 passengers on one flight, after Cyclone Tracy devastated Darwin, NT on Christmas day.

I also read about the record in the Guinness Book of Records. However, the part about them all being children, and difficulties of ruiniting them with their parents, I've got no idea about. --Robert Merkel 07:59, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Robert, they weren't ALL children, but THAT specific flight was deliberately chartered specifically to take the very young kids out of Darwin. Because there were so many kids, there simply wasn't room for many parents. I desperately wish I could direct you to a definitive source, but I can't.  I  know  people who were suddenly asked to rush to Mascot to meet the aircraft on Boxing Day, and they have never forgotten having to help hundreds of  totally numb little chldren who arrived in an unknown big-city environment, having already been through a traumatic cyclone and separation from parents who obviously could not accompany them because there wasn't room on the aircraft. . Regarding being reunited with their parents, don't forget that regular air services couldn't/didn't resume for some time. Cheers.. Moriori 09:16, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm not doubting you, but I don't think we could put that in until we have some documentary evidence. I'd just like a documentary reference for this, especially the bit about parents and children not being reuinted.  If it is true, but undocumented, that sounds like a great topic for some investigative journalism.  But not Wikipedia until we have a source we can point to.--Robert Merkel 10:48, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm going to the Mitchell Library to look up newspaper articles about Cyclone Tracy, so I'll be fact checking this one soon. It's definitely good that someone mentioned this! Guys and girls, you're all doing fantastic work on this article. Congrats - we should be up to featured article status soon! - Ta bu shi da yu 12:08, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Getting this featured
Well, I've done my bit. Were you able to turn up much, Ta bu shi? It'd be nice to get some more detail, and another picture or two wouldn't go astray. :) Ambi 15:19, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I got some information from the Mitchell Library, but unfortunately I was so overwhelmed with the library itself and how to find information I only found one book and a bit of information (which I've since incorporated into the story). More to go next weekend... I'll go and get access to newspapers of the day and find the NOAA satellite images if I can (we might need help from a USian on this one...) Hey, where did you get your info from? From those links? If so, let's add them to the references section (I'll help with this, just whack them in and I'll sort out the reference formatting). - Ta bu shi da yu 15:50, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Yeah, those links. It'd be nice to get a wider variety of sources, as only the NT Library one went into the level of detail we really need. Still, several others were quite useful as well. Newspapers...satellite images...wonderful! It's a pain that I don't have access to the State Library here - too far away. And please...fact check away! :) Ambi 22:24, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Doesn't Melbourne have a State Library? I think they may have info also. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:24, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * We certainly do! I'll try and get in sometime, but I haven't been getting to the city that often of late. T.P.K. 09:04, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Fact checking
OK, so that I've got all of this in one central place, here are the facts I need to verify (please note that I am in no way disparaging the excellent work of our contributors, I am only doing verification work):

Expansion

 * "The town was subsequently rebuilt with newer materials and techniques." - what sort of materials, find more information.
 * Check out something called the Cyclone Code, or Cyclone Coding. All buildings must now be built to withstand a certain amount of force from a cyclone. Since Tracy, most buildings use the concrete cinder blocks rather that bricks, and use tin sheets, rather than tiles for roofing. Until recently everything build in Darwin looked like a bomb shelter, but recently built buildings are now a lot less blocky.


 * "The health and essential services crisis" - section could do with some expanding I think. Could be wrong, will have to see what info I can turn up.

Ta bu shi da yu 12:23, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I've responded to most of those with the sources used by my sources, where available.


 * Now, as to the direction of the cyclone before it hit Darwin - there should be no need to contact the Bureau of Meteorology, as they've got a detailed description on their site above . Anything more you could add to those latter sections were great - I did try to find details of that, but didn't have much luck. Ambi 09:23, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Images
If we are going to submit this for featured article status, it needs more/better images especially considering it is an issue for which there is lots of opportunity for images. Some ideas:


 * Image of Darwin before/after
 * Weather maps
 * Images of the evacuation

As always, permission for the photos will be the biggest hurdle. - Aaron Hill 11:59, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)


 * Actually, not so hard. I have been in consultation with various staff members of the Mitchell Library and have a contact with the NSW State Libraries copyright officer. I'm going to see if we can secure access to some decent pictures from their archives. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:34, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Ta bu shi, you are a legend. Is there any chance that while you're getting pictures for Cyclone Tracy, you could try and pick up some for Franklin Dam? Ambi 23:32, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a shot! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:28, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, no chance to do much on the images front myself yet (have been busy with work), but I was wondering if a Melburnian could assist me with securing copied of the following image: - Ta bu shi da yu 12:27, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Purchased an image from the National Library of Australia
I purchased a copy of an illustrative picture to put on Wikipedia. It won't be reproducable from other Wikis however. The picture's address is http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/picturescatalogue?action=PCDisplay&mode=display&rs=resultset-5743&no=13 - check it out! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:13, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've also found some absolutely brilliant images on Cyclone Tracy! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:32, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I don't think we're going to be able to use these if we can only use them on this site, as they're clearly non-free. Images for non-commercial use seem to be being reluctantly accepted, but I think that's about the limit. Ambi 10:48, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Then I'm rather afraid that our Australian articles about recent historical figures and events are going to be lacking pictures. We don't have fairuse legislation! - Ta bu shi da yu 11:39, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this is going to be a serious problem. In some cases, I'm hoping that we can receive permission to release images under the GFDL or non-commercial use - which was why I'm still keen that we approach the Wilderness Society over the Franklin Dam ones. Still, I'm not sure how we approach this in cases where this isn't possible. I think it might be wise to take this to the mailing list, and see what others have to say. Ambi 11:49, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I emailed the National Archives of Australia and got their permission to publish A6135, K29/1/75/16 on Wikipedia! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:31, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * It's a fantastic photo. I just it was at least a noncommercial license. Ambi 05:15, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

HMAS Arrow
Apparently, HMAS Arrow (P 88) was destroyed by Cyclone Tracy in Darwin in 1974. Can't figure out a way of incorporating this into the article... - Ta bu shi da yu 07:31, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Category
Which category should we put this article under? - Ta bu shi da yu 07:58, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Category:Pacific hurricanes or its parent, Category:Tropical cyclones (though this is otherwise empty apart from subcategories), and Category:Australian history, methinks. Ambi 10:51, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Category:Darwin, Australia and Category:1974 would be valid as well. -- Chuq 11:41, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Darwin should be a subcategory of Northern Territory, so we could cut it back to three categories. Ambi 11:43, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Cyclone tracy in Popular Culture
i added this section, but im sure that there must be more famous works that are tracy inspired. Can anyone else think of any? The bellman 05:14, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I'd never known this! Good work. I can't think of any others, but there may be. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:24, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * You hadn't heard santa never made it to darwin? Its on the radio (ABC 702 sydney) every christmas. I thought everyone knew the song. Anyway, im sure there is some semi-famous book about tracy, but cant for the life of me remember what it's name is. Oh well, i'll sleep on it and see if i can remember. The bellman 08:09, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * There are thousands of books on Cyclone Tracy! :P - Ta bu shi da yu 13:59, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * i meant fiction books rather than non-fiction, as in novels set against the back drop of cyclone tracy. The bellman 02:16, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

When I was a kid I ordered a bookclub called "When Tracy Came For Christmas". I figured it was about a friend popping over for Christmas. I got a bit of shock when the book was filled with black and white photos of the destruction. It was a story of a (fictional) family and how the cyclone affected them. Gemfyre (talk) 02:32, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

From Tropical cyclone
The article Tropical cyclone has this paragraph - originally without a link to this article!

''On Christmas Day 1974, Tropical cyclone Tracy hit Darwin, Australia. It was the most devastating natural disaster to have ever hit an Australian city. Around 90% of the homes in Darwin were destroyed. Fifty people died in Darwin, and 16 at sea. Authorities managed to evacuate most of Darwin. Although cyclone Tracy was quite small, it was very severe, with winds of up to 217 kilometres per hour. The damage was estimated to be close to $A 400 million, which (at current exchange rates) is approximately equal to $US 280 million.'' -- Chuq 10:53, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Possible Wiki Links
I am currently testing an automated Wikipedia link suggester. Ran it on this article, here are the results:


 * Can link Environmental Satellite: ... On 20 December, 1974 the U.S. Environmental Satellite ESSA-8 recorded a large cloud mass ...
 * Can link meteorological office: ...e NOAA-4 was received by the Darwin meteorological office which showed that low pressure had deve...
 * Can link wind speed: ...Unofficial estimates suggested that the wind speed had reached 300 kilometres per hour (18...
 * Can link Test cricket: ...sist its victims. At the Boxing Day Test cricket match in Melbourne, both teams move...
 * Can link public housing: ... Darwin families were given priority on public housing waiting lists. On December 31, 19...
 * Can link ocean liners: ...rary housing, caravans, hotels and even ocean liners were used to house people, as reconstru...
 * Can link building codes: ... those that had survived the storm. New building codes were drawn up, trying to achieve the co...
 * Can link self-government: ...'s successor as Prime Minister, to give self-government to the Territory in 1978....
 * Can link mini-series: ...eated Cyclone Tracy, a period drama mini-series based on the events of the cyclone. It ...
 * Can link Random House: ...ralia Through Time'' (7th ed.), Sydney: Random House Publications. Page 441. ISBN 0-091-8381...
 * Can link National Archives: ...ne Tracy'' (image, January 29, 1975). National Archives of Australia A6135, K29/1/75/16....

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these links may be wrong, some may be right; You can leave positive feedback or negative feedback; Please feel free to delete this section from the talk page. -- Nickj 07:00, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Royal Australian Navy section
Reference: SEMAPHORE Issue 14, December 2004; Sea Power Centre - Australia, Royal Australian Navy; Newsletter of the Sea Power Centre - Australia, (occasional series). SEMAPHORE Issue 14 deals with the Navy's response to Cyclone Tracy (25 December 1974) and the Tasman Bridge collapse (5 January 1975).

Where did this come from? It looks like a potential copyright violation, it's poorly wikified, and it's completely out of whack chronologically with the rest of the article. Ambi 06:05, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Added by Peter Ellis. Why do you say it's a copyvio? Ta bu shi da yu 06:22, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * It just had that appearance - the poor wikification, hefty terminology and lack of context sent up red flags. Maybe I'm wrong, but still - it'd be nice if this could be integrated with the rest of the article. Ambi 06:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * By Peter Ellis: I intended to reference the entry at the time, and something else came up. I believe that, with proper attribution, it is fair use. Now, I've fixed the attribution. I actually did some fiddling -- intellectual effort -- rather than simply trying to Wikify. Peter Ellis 21:07, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I've moved this section to talk, because it just doesn't fit with the rest of the article as it stands. The whole article is basically in chronological order, and then there's this slab added in later that goes over some of the same material as the rest of the article, also adds other useful material, but really doesn't fit. Some of it probably should be incorporated into the rest of the article, but I don't really see a purpose to having to claiming fair use on this big slab of text. Ambi 12:20, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

''The 351 naval personnel then based in Darwin possessed only a limited capability to render immediate assistance to the stricken city and its community. Administration was from the base HMAS Coonawarra. Captain Eric E. Johnston, OBE, RAN, was Naval Officer Commanding the North Australia Area (NOCNA). (After later retiring from the Navy with the rank of Commodore, he was appointed as and became a popular Administrator of the Northern Territory of Australia.)''

''The Royal Australian Navy had Attack class patrol boats based at Darwin. Of the four patrol boats, HMAS Arrow had sunk under Stokes Hill Wharf with the loss of two lives, HMAS Attack was driven ashore at Doctor’s Gully by the sheer force of the cyclonic winds, and HMAS Advance and HMAS Assail were damaged. Arrow was damaged beyond repair and was subsequently decommissioned and scrapped.''

''The first RAN asset to arrive in the disaster stricken city, on 26 December, was a HS748 aircraft from 851 Squadron, carrying blood transfusion equipment and a team of Red Cross workers. A second HS748 aircraft carrying members of Clearance Diving Team One (CDT1) arrived shortly thereafter. On 26 December HMAS Balikpapan and HMAS Betano sailed from Brisbane, HMAS Flinders sailed from Cairns, and the aircraft carrier HMAS Melbourne (R-21) with the Flag Officer Commanding Australian Fleet (FOCAF), Rear Admiral D.C. Wells, CBE embarked, HMAS Brisbane and HMAS Stuart sailed from Sydney. Four S-2 Tracker aircraft from 816 and 851 Squadrons prepared to fly to Darwin, but were placed on standby and eventually stood down. The following day, HMAS Hobart, HMAS Stalwart, HMAS Supply and HMAS Vendetta sailed from Sydney, and HMAS Brunei and HMAS Tarakan sailed from Brisbane. Nine Wessex helicopters from 817 and 725 Squadrons were embarked in Melbourne and Stalwart. HMAS Wewak subsequently sailed from Brisbane on 2 January 1975. The submarine HMS Odin had been nominated to proceed to Darwin to act as a power station, before the authorities determined that appropriate power conversion facilities did not exist in Darwin.''

''The Director General of the National Disasters Organisation, Major General A.B Stretton, DSO, arrived in Darwin on 26 December with his staff officers to establish an Emergency Services Organisation Committee. NOCNA was appointed to the committee as Port Controller, with responsibility for controlling the port and its approaches, and for drafting an Emergency Plan in the event of a further cyclone. As preparations were made for the arrival of the naval task group, Captain Johnston relocated the naval headquarters to his residence, Admiralty House. It was agreed that the RAN relief force would be allocated responsibility for clearing and restoring 4740 houses in the northern suburbs of Nightcliff, Rapid Creek and Casuarina. HS748 aircraft continued to ferry personnel and stores to Darwin and evacuees south. Evacuees were accommodated in several Navy bases, HMAS Kuttabul, HMAS Penguin and HMAS Watson in Sydney; and HMAS Moreton in Brisbane. CDT1 was surveying damage to the patrol boats and civilian craft, searching for missing vessels, clearing Stokes and Fort Hill Wharves, and assessing how to extract the wreck of Arrow.''

''The first ships, Flinders and Brisbane, arrived in Darwin on 31 December. Flinders surveyed the approaches to Darwin to ensure the safe passage and anchorage of the Task Group, while Brisbane landed working parties and established communications with NOCNA. Melbourne and Stuart arrived on 1 January; Stalwart on 2 January; Hobart, Supply and Vendetta on 3 January; and Balikpapan and Betano on 4 January. Brunei, Tarakan and Wewak arrived the following week on 13 January. The ships had brought with them some 3000 naval personnel.''

''Between 1 and 30 January naval personnel spent 17,979 man days ashore, with up to 1200 ashore at the peak of the operation. Working parties cleared some 1593 blocks and cleaned up schools, government and commercial buildings and recreational facilities. They installed generators, rewired houses, repaired electrical and air-conditioning systems, re-roofed or weatherproofed buildings, and maintained and repaired vehicles. Some parties worked to save rare plants in the Botanical Gardens. Hygiene parties disposed of spoiled foodstuffs from houses, supermarkets and warehouses. Female personnel from Coonawarra supported civil relief organisations and manned communication centres. One enterprising sailor from Hobart filled in as a relief disc jockey for the local commercial radio station. The Wessex helicopters transported 7832 passengers, 244,518lbs (110,912kg) of freight and made 2505 landings. The HS748 aircraft completed 14 return flights to Darwin and carried 485 passengers and 50,000lbs (22,680kg) of freight.''

''Like its arrival, the departure of the Task Group was staggered. Balikpapan and Flinders departed early, on 7 and 9 January respectively; Stuart, towing Attack to Cairns, sailed in company with Brunei, Tarakan and Wewak on 17 January; Hobart, Melbourne and CDT1 left on 18 January; Betano on 23 January; and Supply and Vendetta on 24 January. The SCHQ was closed down on 30 January and FOCAF transferred responsibility for the continuation of disaster relief to the Commandant of the Army’s 7th Military District. The following day the last ships, Brisbane and Stalwart, sailed from Darwin. The departure of the Task Group did not, however, signify the end of the RAN’s support to the rehabilitation of Darwin. In May and June 1975 the minehunters HMAS Curlew, HMAS Ibis and HMAS Snipe surveyed the approaches to Darwin and the harbour itself, locating trawlers sunk during Cyclone Tracy, and other navigational hazards.''

Saffir-Simpson scale?
This article contains references to the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale. Last I checked, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology uses its own tropical cyclone severity categories, not the Saffir-Simpson scale. -- Cyrius|&#9998; 08:48, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Vast Improvement
While this article is listed as featured, it's in dire need of improvement. It's likely that if the article was nominated for FA removal it would succeed as standards have moved on since this article was listed. I'll notify WikiProject Australia and Tropical Cyclones to see if anyone is interested in improving it. CHANLORD [T]/[C] 00:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Completely agreed. Does anyone here have the books that are listed in the references? The entire page needs to be switched to inline references. The lead needs to be expanded to 2 paragraphs, at least. Overall, sources are the biggest thing. Who's in for helping? Hurricanehink 01:07, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Entirely agreed. I recently did a little restructuring to the article to give it the current signature layout.  But there is lots of work to be done on the content. — jdorje (talk) 01:32, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Todo
As said above, this article needs help, and fast. Aside from what's below, sources are desperately needed.


 * Intro- This needs to be at least 2 paragraphs, if not 3. Not sure how to expand, but I'm sure someone can. Maybe mention wind speeds and track?


 * Storm history- More meteorological conditions- why did it take the track it did (ridge, trough?). Exactly how strong was it? Pressure? Preparations should be in preparations (it says a radio broadcast stated the storm posed no immediate threat, that's preparations). The record at the bottom sticks out like a sore thumb. If possible, that should be worked in more to a paragraph. More storm history in general is needed, though it's not that bad.


 * Preparations- Not bad, but long quotes shouldn't be used like that (IMO). The quotes should be worked into the section.


 * Impact- More structure is needed. A summarizing opening should be first, then area by area. If possible, an entire offshore section should be made. How many boats sank? Were the 22 at sea all from Australia? Were any oil rigs destroyed? Onshore, meteorological stats are needed. What was the strongest wind report? Surge? Did Tracy cause any rainfall? Tornadoes? In impact, don't stray far from the immediate impact. Preparation and aftermath should go in their own sections (evacuation and public response)


 * Aftermath- More structure, move aftermath from impact section to here, etc.

This is just my opinion, but I think this is needed. Hurricanehink 21:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

size?
the size of the storm seems quite exceptional in relation to its' intensity. are such compace storms common in this part of the world? Joeyramoney 01:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Size and intensity have no correlation. Hurricanes Floyd and Andrew were of similar intensity, but Floyd was 3 times larger. As for that part of the world, yeah, for some reason Australian cyclones seem to be tiny. --Golbez 01:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * To add to the sheer tinyness of the hurricane, it was below hurricane strength for most of its lifetime, and only briefly peaked at hurricane strength. Cyclone Monica in 2006 could have done more damage, so it was a good thing that it stayed mostly offshore. AstroHurricane001 21:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

What's needed
There is some graffiti that needs to be fixed last time I checked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blade Kassan (talk • contribs) 11:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's start from the beginning. The whole article needs sources. Here's some more, point by point.


 * Infobox fixes- What is its strength on the SS scale? Also, how should the damage totals be re-arranged?


 * Longer intro- It should be split into 2 or 3 paragraphs. A possible way to do this is having paragraph 1 be for the storm history/statistics, paragraph 2 for impact, and paragraph 3 for aftermath.


 * Storm history- Forus more on the storm. Any records or impact can go elsewhere.


 * Preparations- While Darwin's recent growth to that point is interesting, that isn't exactly preparations.


 * Impact- Be sure the impact only pertains to the damage from the storm. Any aftermath should go to the aftermath section.

It sounds like a bit much. Perhaps we should recontruct the page anew, just so we have everything. Hurricanehink 02:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * In the infobox, it has:


 * "$4 billion (1998 AUD)
 * $8.2 billion (1998 AUD)
 * $2.8 billion (1998 USD)
 * $3.2 billion (2005 USD)"


 * Why is 1998 AUD listed twice at different costs (I checked the site referenced, it lists $4 billion)? Should the second one be 2005 AUD? And why isn't the cost in 1974 AUD/USD on there as well? Not available? -- RattleMan 02:08, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the 8.2 billion one, and fixed the total using GDP deflation and currency converters. Hurricanehink 02:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Alright, I started a user page located here. Should we start, basically, a new Cyclone Tracy article there? I, for one, believe it is needed, and rather than applying a band aid on this page, we should do the major operations on mine. Hurricanehink 02:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


 * As the original author of most of this, I don't object to that. The FA standards were far, far less when we (the ACOTW folks) wrote this article. Ambi 04:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * True, but most of the Cyclone editors don't have access to the original sources, which would really help. Tito xd (?!? - help us) 06:48, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * IIRC, a lot of the information came from this site. There were a couple of other sources, I think, but I can't remember. Ambi 06:52, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Failed Version 0.5 Nomination
This article is considered to fall outside the scope of the Version 0.5 test release, which is of limited size. It is now being held ready for a later version. --Rory096 05:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Article Tune Up
Ok For those of us that would love to get this article tuned back up lets disscuss what can be done to pretty it back up. Aeon 19:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * First, it needs to be brushed with a fine comb, to get rid of all grammar and spelling mistakes. Also, try to format the existing references in cite web formatting. Tito xd (?!?) 21:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK cool I will run through it for spelling mistakes and gramtical erros and what not. Aeon 21:32, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Hows this for this part?

Orginal Paragraph


 * Tracy killed 71 people — 49 on land and 22 at sea — and Darwin had been substantially destroyed. Originally, the death toll was 65, but it was revised upwards in March 2005.[9]


 * Due to the destruction of infrastructure, the distance between Darwin and the rest of the Australian population and the fact it was Christmas Day and most media outlets had only a skeleton crew rostered on at best, the news of the cyclone took some time to reach people. Most Australians were not aware of the cyclone until late in the afternoon.

Reworded and merged (had a slight problem wording the last part)


 * Cyclone Tracy killed 71 people, 49 of whom were on land and 22 were out at sea, and Darwin had been substantially destroyed. Originally, the reported death toll was numbered at 65, but it was revised upwards in March 2005. [9] Many Australians as a result of heavy infrastructure damage, the distance from other populated areas and several of the news media outlets not have a full crew during the Christmas holiday, were not aware of the cyclone until late in the afternoon.

Let me know how this looks Aeon 21:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd rewrite it like:
 * Cyclone Tracy killed 71 people, 49 of whom were on land and 22 were out at sea. The storm also caused the substantial destruction of the city of Darwin. Originally, the reported death toll was numbered at 65, but it was revised upwards in March 2005. [9]
 * There were several factors that delayed the dissemination of the news of the cyclone's impact. The destruction of transportation infrastructure and the distance between Darwin and the rest of the Australian population paid a role, as did the fact the storm made landfall on Christmas Day and most media outlets had only a skeleton crew rostered on at best. Most Australians were not aware of the cyclone until late in the afternoon.
 * Tito xd (?!?) 22:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh that is much better, I'm also reword serval parts of the article and updating information where I can. Aeon 23:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have added you rewording, It is much better than tha one I have attempted. Aeon 23:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Here is some addional changes made to the intorduction of impact section

Orignal Paragraph:

The initial emergency response was from a leadership committee of high-level public servants and police which stated that, "Darwin had, for the time being, ceased to exist as a city". The Australian Prime Minister Gough Whitlam was touring Syracuse at the time but flew to Darwin on hearing of the disaster. The Government began a mass evacuation by road and air. All Defence Force personnel throughout Australia were recalled from holiday leave, and the entire Royal Australian Air Force fleet of transport planes was deployed to evacuate civilians from the city and to bring essential supplies.

New Paragraph

The initial emergency response was from a leadership committee comprised of several high-level public servants and police, who stated that, "Darwin had, for the time being, ceased to exist as a city". The Australian Prime Minister Gough Whitlam, who was touring Syracuse at the time, flew to Darwin upon hearing of the disaster. The Government began a mass evacuation by road and air. Also all of the Defense Force personnel throughout Australia were recalled from holiday leaves along with the entire Royal Australian Air Force's fleet of transport planes, which were deployed to evacuate civilians from Darwin and to bring essential relief supplies to the area as well.

Basiclly I redid the whole intro of the Impact Section. Aeon 22:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Should the few red links we have be removed? Aeon 00:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No. Red links are not a bad thing. Rebecca 00:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Rebecca! Didn't want to remove them if the belonged. Also I added a new image, it shows the more of the aftermath, should I move it to the impact or leave it where it is? Aeon 00:45, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, we can't use the new image, as it is copyrighted. This is one of the big problems with illustrating historical events in Australia - short of finding some generous person who happened to be in Darwin in 1974, we're really out of luck. Rebecca 01:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The dreaded fair use... :( Tito xd (?!?) 02:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That figures, It was a nice image to. Oh well, I will try ot find a nie image Aeon 01:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

G'day people. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your TLC here. When the article's stabilised, I'll see if I can do it justice with a new spoken version, although I'll have to omit any copyrighted text. The word from Jimbo is that we shouldn't be putting anything copyrighted (fair-use or not) in spoken articles. -- Macropode 06:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC) Umm - the word probably thrice removed but that's good enough for me... -- Macropode 11:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Did a bit of a cleanup of the references per Tito above. Can someone just quickly check that I used cite book and cite news properly in the references section though? Some of the items were not so 'standard' :) I also removed this from the list:
 * Natural disasters — Cyclones — Aerial view of Darwin, after Cyclone Tracy (image, 29 January 1975). National Archives of Australia A6135, K29/1/75/16.

since it's just a link to a photo used in the article. If it needs to be attributed, shouldn't this be done on the image page? Cheers, -- darkliight [&pi;alk] 07:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

SSHS Catergory
In comparing the Saffir Simpson Scale to the Austalian, I noticed that the Cat. 4 hurricane on there scall is equivalent to a Cat 2 or 3 on ours, should we change the info box to reflect that? Aeon 01:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Bad idea. The wind scales are different (NOAA's implementation of the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale calls for 1-minute sustained winds, while the rest of the world calls for 10-minute sustained winds), and you can see the ensuing battle for yourself: Talk:Cyclone Larry, Talk:Cyclone Larry/Archive 1. Tito xd (?!?) 02:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok cool, don't want to get into a battle. that would be bad. Aeon 02:59, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've found a BoM source that indicates sustained winds of (at least) SS Cat 2 strength. I think we can convert between 1-min and 10-min (for purpose of determining SS category), just not between sustained and gusts. However I'm not sure as to its validity, I'll be checking that out. However that is the problem which happened on Larry, the conversion indicates a higher category and the best available data indicates the low category. That is a wider WPTC question really isn't it, perhaps we should think about it there?--Nilfanion (talk) 07:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Failed "good article" nomination
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of August 11, 2006, compares against the six good article criteria:


 * 1. Well written?: Nice.
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Seems good - plenty of references. This article in a little lighter on inline refs than most of these cyclone articles.  Pay special attention to specific details, statistics and quotes.
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Good job here. Nice that it has a spoken version!
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: Also good.
 * 5. Article stability? Nice.
 * 6. Images?: Major issues here. Most of the photos have obsolete or inappropriate tags.  This is the biggest issue that caused the failure.  But fortunately an easy fix.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. --Esprit15d 20:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC) The ocean liner mentioned in the article was named "Patris" it was Greek registered and spent it's last three(?) months of it's working life moored at Stokes Hill Wharf providing accomodation. It left to be broken up in Hong Kong, and the owner's gave a number of the life boats no longer required to the local community.

Good Article renomination - On Hold
Great article. It seems the problem with image tags noted in the last GA review has been fixed. There are very few remaining issues with this article preventing it from passing this time. Therefore, I've put the GA review "on hold" until the following items are addressed:
 * Add references to the Impact and Aftermath sections.
 * Delete any information in these sections that can't be verified.

There are a lot of statistics being rattled off in the Impact and Aftermath sections of this article, but both of those sections are almost completely devoid of references (in stark contract to to the Intro, Storm History, and Preparations sections). In particular, the entire "Health and essential services crisis" subsection is chock full of specific numbers, times, and events... but no reference to where these numbers came from. Here are a few examples of statements that require a citation (this is not a complete list):


 * "On Christmas Day, the Darwin Hospital treated well over five hundred patients, with 112 of these being admitted into the hospital, and both of the facilities operating theatres being utilized."
 * "The first casualties did not arrive till 7 a.m. because of high winds and severe road conditions in and around the Darwin area. "
 * "Approximately 30,000 people were homeless, and were forced to seek shelter in several makeshift housing and emergency centers that lacked proper hygienic conditions. "
 * "...it was concluded that Darwin's population needed to be reduced to a "safe level" of 10,500 persons."
 * "By the 31st of December only 10,638 people remained in Darwin."
 * "Approximately twenty-four hours after the storm hit Darwin, the population of Alice Springs had raised well over $105,000 to assist the victims of Tracy."
 * "In February 1975, Prime Minister Gough Whitlam announced the creation of the Darwin Reconstruction Commission, which was given the task of rebuilding the city 'within five years'."

Much of this information is extremely specific, and I would assume that the information was obtained from a reliable source, but the editor didn't bother to insert the reference. Either that, or the editor directly experienced the storm and is writing from a first-hand account (in which case, it would be original research and should be deleted).

I will check back in a few days to see if references have been added. If not, I will fail the GA review and add the article to WP:UGAN.

Snottywong 21:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Three days with no activity. I'll add this article to WP:UGAN. Please renominate when references have been added. Good luck. Snottywong 23:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)