Talk:Cyrus Margono

Nationality
This is just a note that Margono's nationality does not change from American to Indonesian simply because he has both citizenships. He was born in the United States, and so his nationality in the lede, according to both WP:FOOTY and WP:MOSETHNICITY, should remain "American" until he actually plays for the Indonesian national team. After that, the lede will become ambiguous. Anwegmann (talk) 01:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


 * @Anwegmann If you don't know, Indonesia do not recognize dual nationality/citizenship (I will use interchangibly because there are no difference in Indonesia), as written in the Indonesian nationality law. Indonesia only recognize limited dual citizenship for children of Indonesian parent and non-Indonesian parent. The definition of children is unmarried person under the age of 18, though usually there is a grace period of 3 years. After which they have to declare which nationality they want to hold. Cyrus Margono was a dual national, he chose Indonesian citizenship, which meant he lost his US citizenship.
 * On the other hand, if a person undergo naturalization ('naturalization for exceptional merit' process) to play for Indonesia national team, they will lose their other citizenship to obtain Indonesian citizenship. They are not dual nationals, because their parents do not have Indonesian citizenship to confer to them. Envapid (talk) 05:06, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but the United States does. This has been an issue with Liberian nationality law as well, as Liberia does not allow dual-citizenship, but many Liberians maintain both American and Liberian citizenships. The act of denouncing one citizenship to accept another does not cancel out other citizenships. It only cancels the original citizenship in the eyes of the nation granting the second citizenship. So in this case, Margono is still very much an American citizen, fully eligible to hold and use an American passport. He simply can't use an American passport to get into Indonesia. Because American citizenship is jus sanguinis, it can only be lost if a citizen officially denounces if with the United States government, which there is no evidence Margono has done, or stripped by the Federal government. Anwegmann (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @AnwegmannFrom this usa.gov page, Cyrus would fit the Apply for citizenship in a foreign country with the intention of giving up U.S. citizenship criteria for losing US citizenship.
 * I'm pretty sure there is coordination with US embassy in Indonesia, and this notification is one of the requirement for Indonesian citizenship oath that he did, to ensure he (and other participants) did not became stateless. The process have been going on for months, why should you assume he did not do the requirements with US Government.
 * He and the Indonesian government (Kanwil Kemenhumkam DKI Jakarta) said he is citizen of Indonesian. Envapid (talk) 07:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not doubting that he is an Indonesian citizen. He is, however, still an American citizen. American citizenship is not stripped that easily. One county disallowing dual citizenship does not inhibit the maintenance of American citizenship. George Weah is an excellent example of someone who has dual citizenship including a country (Liberia) that does not allow dual citizenship. In any case, all of this doesn't change Margono's nationality in the lede according to WP:FOOTY. Anwegmann (talk) 15:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * From what I see from George Weah page he is listed as Liberian. George Weah is Liberian citizen only, unless you believed his political rival Joseph Boakai that claimed he was foreigner, so inelegible to be president, and I thought wikipedia should follow WP:NPOV. Envapid (talk) 03:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * His French citizenship is mentioned and sourced in the George Weah article. It's a well-known fact. Yet, Liberia does not allow dual-citizenship. France, however, does, bringing up the exact situation we're in with Margono. Weah was a Liberian citizen at birth but became a French citizen later. Anwegmann (talk) 05:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * From what I see from George Weah page he is listed as Liberian. George Weah is Liberian citizen only, unless you believed his political rival Joseph Boakai that claimed he was foreigner, so inelegible to be president, and I thought wikipedia should follow WP:NPOV. Envapid (talk) 03:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * His French citizenship is mentioned and sourced in the George Weah article. It's a well-known fact. Yet, Liberia does not allow dual-citizenship. France, however, does, bringing up the exact situation we're in with Margono. Weah was a Liberian citizen at birth but became a French citizen later. Anwegmann (talk) 05:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)