Talk:Cytherea (pornographic actress)/Archive 1

Regarding the "female Peter North" sentence
The following line was removed from the article because no reference was given:


 * (...) which has led some to dub her "the female Peter North."

If someone can please provide a reference that suits the verifiable sources guidelines, it would be appreciated. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. Think out loud 21:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Lack of References
- I could not include the appropriate references because they were blocked by the spam filter. I have attempted to request an exception for www.x  - xx   - po   - rn   - talk.com (sorry; it's very annoying for me too) but could not load the necessary page. If anyone could file that request for me, I could provide references for the third paragraph. Sammy1339 05:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Request denied. - Amgine 21:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The above reference doesn't seem to be a reliable source according to us, since the site is a message board, which is a no-no for us. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. Think out loud — WP:PORN BIO? 15:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Importance rating
I have seen that this article is rated as "low-importance". After reading the Importance scale on WikiProject Pornography I believe that this article is of mid or high-importance - definitely not low-importance. If you agree with me please express your views, so that I can change it. Bsrboy (talk) 18:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Heroin addiction
Should it maybe be added to the main article that Cytherea has strugled with heroin and other hard drugs addiction? --KpoT (talk) 02:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

IP blocking
Is there anyway we can lock the IP at 83.160.38.218 out from making any changes to the article? It's annoying how this person, who appears to be the User formerly known as Squirtfan but now simply works on an anonymous level, keeps trying to modify the external links for Cytherea's entry. He (I assume it's a guy) either redirects the link, tries to break them, or (in the most recent case) deletes them altogether.

Tabercil 02:52, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Speaking in general, the answer is no. IP adresses ar usually dynamic, so blocking one specific adress will not help. Since this was long ago I suppose there are no longer any need for this action. Otherwise, the correct way to avoid vandalism is to make the page protected or at leaast semiprotected so that only logged in users can edit it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.65.125 (talk) 21:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Genuineness of Orgasms
This article makes the claim that "Other porn stars have commented that her female ejaculations are genuine whereas other porn starlets who appear to ejaculate are merely urinating." However, I cannot find that in the references, nor does the article even say which other porn stars made that claim, or why they should be regarded as authoritative or unbiased. Personally, having seen one of her films, I find this claim to be very difficult to swallow. I am nearly certain that it is physiologically impossible to eject from the urethra the amount of yellow fluid I saw coming out of this person without urinating. --Sammy1339, 1/31/2006
 * my ex girlfriend almost drowned me once .. it wasnt urine, it is possible .. but i do agree there is something odd with the line  "...whereas other porn starlets who appear to ejaculate are merely urinating" this implying it always IS urine unless its a cytheria movie .. face it female orgasms exist , maybe not in hollywood but its no way proven nor disproved in the way its on the page
 * Didn't seem like urine to me. 88.109.205.230 16:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but as what i've seen, nothing about her seemed that genuine. She is an actor, and it shows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.65.125 (talk) 21:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Regarding "record" on orgasm
I have removed the following sentences, as they were not accompanied by sources:


 * She has set records for the longest orgasms on record which lasted 4 minutes. She can have multiple ejaculations on camera.

If a source can be provided, please list it here on this talk page so that we can independently verify whether or not this information is suitable for inclusion in this article. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. Think out loud 06:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, the "multiple ejaculations on camera" part is accurate... I've seen it. (Granted, the urine vs. female ejaculation debate still applies) As for the 4 minute thing, I doubt that's in any way verifiable. The Incredible Moo 09:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

plus there are people that have constant, continuous orgasms (i think the medical term is called status coitus), so a four minute orgasm is hardly recordbreaking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.5.177.190 (talk) 05:39, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Pregancy/Children
I've got a video of her where she stats that she is four (and a half) months pregnant, shouldn't that be mentioned somewhere, as I don't know when the video was made, it's entirely possible that her child may be quite old by now. 203.206.89.33 (talk) 05:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * What to mention? It says she has a son, we have no way of knowing if this pregnancy was with him or another child. There's no reason whatsoever to have any further information on her child. --Golbez (talk) 07:49, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

In addition to her pregnancy, Cytherea got a boob job and has become a completely different woman. Is her pornographic career over? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.252.37.11 (talk) 03:44, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Tutorial on wiki rules
1) Consensus is irrelevant: verifiability is the relevant point.

2) The "source" that has been mentioned (where's the footnote?) for "attained during orgasm" has several problems:

a) it is not a "reliable, third-party source." (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOURCES#Sources ) It is Cytherea herself claiming that her acting is real.

b) it is not from a reliable source:

c) "Sources should directly support the information as it is presented in an article" (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOURCES#Sources )  In this case, Cytherea in the interview does NOT verify that she is having orgasms.  The interviewer says she "seems" to, and she replies, "well _when_ I climax."

d) "exceptional claims require high-quality sources." Id.  In this case this is clearly an exceptional claim.

e) AIPDaily is not a high-quality source.

f) Particularly important here is the self-interest of this source: "journals created to promote a particular viewpoint may claim peer review, but have no meaningful peer review outside of adherents of the viewpoint they promote." Id. "Such journals generally represent the consensus view among such adherents, but may otherwise be considered unreliable." Id.  That fits AIPDaily to a tee.

g) "Tiny-minority views and fringe theories need not be included, except in articles devoted to them." Id.  I would like to suggest that is a good idea here: create a separate page dedicated to the explosive urination that porn stars do and claim it is female ejaculation.  If you read the female ejaculation page, what Cytherea does is CLEARLY not.  A separate page on the faux female ejaculation common in porn might be a fun project for . . . someone.

h) "Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for checking the facts, or with no editorial oversight." Id.  Obviously this describes AIPDaily.

3) What is an "exceptional claim"?

a) "surprising or apparently important claims not covered by mainstream sources." Id.

b) "claims that are contradicted by the prevailing view within the relevant community, or which would significantly alter mainstream assumptions, especially in science, medicine, . . ." Id.  The page on female ejaculation says female ejaculate is a few millileters.  Cytherea urinates several ounces at a time.  To call that female ejaculation is contradicted by the prevailing view of medicine.

4) In addition, "consensus" does not overrule the wikipedia core content policies: "The principles upon which these policies are based cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus." (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view )

5) The Citing Sources policy REQUIRES that "If you find unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about a living person—whether in an article or on a talk page—remove it immediately!" Clearly this claim is contentious.  And clearly it is poorly sourced.  (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources )

6) "If a particular claim in an article lacks citation and is doubtful, consider placing after the sentence, which will add a "citation needed" label, or consider removing it."  (Id.)  The claim in question about Cytherea clearly is doubtful.  And it lacks citation.  (It has no footnote.)

Because of #5 above, I am removing the claims of "orgasm" immediately, pending a verifiable citation to a source that fits the criteria outlined above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.247.113 (talk • contribs)


 * Given that of 296 titles listed at the IAFD 120 identify "squirting" as on of the acts, and that a number of those say "MastOnly" as well, then the first half of the statement "She is best known for her female ejaculation or "squirting", attained during orgasm." seems like a statement of fact, and the second half is taken from all her interviews where she says that she ejaculates during orgasm. The controversy over female ejaculation has been played out over at that page, a page which is 55k long and has a section which outlines all the sides of that debate. The IP was the second in as many days to take issues with this sentence, and far from crusading for truth they ran through five reverts, which were were reverted by three editors and did not come her to discuss this until they had been warned. I have no problem with the sentence and the link to FE because Cytherea is know for squirting, and in her films this is done when she exhibits the signs of an orgasm. Darrenhusted (talk) 19:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

You are missing the point of what is wrong with the sentence. No one has ever edited the paragraph to remove a reference to "squirting." That's the thing women do in porn, that's what the IAFD talks about, it's what Cytherea talks about--it's widely known: gushing liquid out of the vagina. The problem with the sentence as written before it was fixed is that it makes claims that are contentious and unfounded and downright absurd: one, that what the women in porn movies are doing is "female ejaculation," and two, that Cytherea or any porn star is having orgasms during filming.

By the way, the way you phrased it at the end is fine: she is known for "squirting" while exhibiting signs of an orgasm." Absolutely--that is exactly what she is doing.  What she is NOT doing is "female ejaculation attained during orgasm."

The way the page is now is fine: it mentions she's a squirter, without making any dubious, unfounded, and biased claims about it. (Biased because the claims are presenting a particular point of view that is encouraged by the porn industry (and obviously Cytherea herself), _not_ by neutral third parties.)

The fact that the page on the controversy over female ejaculation is 55K long is all the more reason not to present it here as though it is a simple, unquestionable fact.

As for your brief history of the edits on this page in the last couple days, as explained above, I was absolutely right, according to the wikipedia rules, to remove the controversial claims made about a living person. The three editors who RESTORED the questionable material were violating wikipedia rules EVERY TIME. When someone removes a contentious item from a page, the proper thing to do is NOT simply restore it (five times!) but to leave the page without the contentious material, and bring the discussion here. You have repeatedly violated the rules, which places wikipedia in danger of embarrassment and loss of credibility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.247.113 (talk • contribs)

Her real Name
According to imdb her real name is Cassieardolla Elaine Story, IMBD is a serious source that has confirmed through several other serious sources it is her name, so let us publish  her real name. In spanish wikipedia it has been already done.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1522849/bio,  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.159.206.165 (talk) 23:26, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * IMDB isn't considered a reliable source here per WP:RS/IMDB. If they have sources, perhaps you could use those sources instead of IMDB.  Dismas |(talk) 23:56, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh Come on! with all the due respect, it is an elated opinion. So english wikipedia standards are higher than, for example, German standards? Please take a look at the german wikipedia about Cytherea. Guess what is the real name source they use to state her real identity:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytherea_%28Pornodarstellerin%29#cite_note-imdb-0

I hope you can read German as I do, if not, try to guide yourself by the letters in bold. And what about Wikipedia in French, Italian, polish, spanish, russian, etc, etc, all of them are inferior standards, and therefore have the real name Cassieardolla Elaine Story published. In short they are inferior standars of wikipedia according to your english opinion? Nice to know it. --190.159.206.165 (talk) 01:40, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, I can read a bit of German. And I never said that anyone's standard was inferior.  All the various languages have different policies and guidelines as to what is and isn't notable/reliable/etc.  In the end, somebody got that name from somewhere.  Just find out where and you might have a reliable source.  Dismas |(talk) 01:47, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Howard Stern citation
Cytherea has natural breasts. I remember the Howard Stern interview and the summary mixed Cytherea and Teagan up. It was Teagan that admitted her breasts were fake. Vinh1313 (talk) 06:17, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Cytherea's apparently got fake ones now after having her two kids. Guy1890 (talk) 01:32, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Mario (entertainer) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:28, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Real name - reliably sourced? (2014)
Reliable source MrSkin, who has an established 15-year history of consistently providing accurate and factual information, including supplying editorial content to The Howard Stern Show (referenced both online and on-air) for years w/o any errors requiring retraction or correction of the record that I recall, reports Cytherea's real-name (name removed per WP:BLPTALK). As such, I believe the threshold is met for inclusion of the actor's real name in the article and that we should do so now. JDanek007Talk 03:20, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * If my memory serves me correctly, I'm pretty sure that the "Mr. Skin" website is on a Wikipedia blacklist, which means that it can't be used as a source or even an External link. In any event, this person's real name "Cassieardolla Story" is already reliably sourced within the article right now. Who cares about her supposed middle name? Guy1890 (talk) 03:55, 6 October 2014 (UTC)