Talk:Czerwono-Czarni

Notability
Prod: I think that "pioneers of Polish rock." would " indicate why its subject is important or significant.".Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:32, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * One would think so, yes... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 06:13, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Under A7 we need a credible claim as to why the band is notable. Being referred to (by someone unknown) as a "pioneer" does not meet that criterion.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:17, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Are there any other reasons to consider the band notable, other than what is reflected in the article, that is embedded in Polish sources? As it stands, I do not think it would withstand AFD, but perhaps some Polish-readers of this page can tell us of some Polish source coverage that would overcome that problem (I did not see it in the English sources).--Epeefleche (talk) 06:21, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Uh, the first band to cut a rock-n-roll record in Poland?Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:25, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Which of wp's notability criteria does that fit under?--Epeefleche (talk) 06:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know and it doesn't matter.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, for purposes of deletion discussions, it is our guiding light.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:30, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with VM on that. If the music group notability (which, if it exists, nobody has linked to...) does not make it clear this band would be notable, it simply means it has to be changed. And if you want to waste people's time taking this to AFD, go ahead. I think that as things stand, this article has been clearly improved and shows notability. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 06:31, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait -- you're both arguing that it is notable for wikipedia's purposes, but don't even know what the rules are? I see why we are having a problem.  Here is the rule ... Notability (music) -- if it falls within the criteria very much matters, as it is the standard we use for determining whether to keep or delete articles.  If you can point to where it meets the standards, and/or improve the article to show that, then I don't think the article would be appropriate for AFD.  We don't generally decide matters of deletion based on "of course it is notable; even if it doesn't fall within the notability standards".  But, as I say, if you can help point to its notability, that should determine the matter.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:39, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I don't generally know the rules off the top of my head (I just looked them up). But I do know that if being the "first band to record a rock and roll record in Poland" isn't in there, then it's a problem with the rules, not the subject of the article. I'll see your bureaucratic rules and raise you some common sense.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:42, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * btw, they probably satisfy 1,2, maybe 3 (don't know what the standard for "gold record" was back when they started), 4, 5, maybe 6 (at least 1 notable musician), satisfies 8 if Polish music awards count, ditto for 9, 11 and probably 12.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:46, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd assume Polish music awards count. If not, that would be again just that the rules need changing... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 06:51, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * With Piotrus's excellent work, I agree that it is notable -- he demonstrated that it has at least two notable members. And as to Polish awards -- yes, I would also think that in general they should count, if they are on the level of the US Grammys and the like (lower level music awards would not).  Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:54, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Glad we managed to resolve this, thank you VM for helping out. If one of you would want to throw it at DYK, please do. I think I exhausted the sources I can find easily, and it's time for some shut-eye time... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 07:21, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Done -- I've nom'd it at DYK, indicating credit to the two of you as the expanders.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks!Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:39, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

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