Talk:Désirée Clary

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:06, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Anecdote
There is an anecdote of her eccentirc sleeping habbits as queen (1843), which was delted from the text: ''There is an old story about this: in 1843, a palace guard saw the queen fully dressed on the palace balcony in the middle of the night. When he came home to his wife, he told her, that she was lazy in comparision to the queen, who went up hours before the sunrise: he though queen Desiree had went up earlier than anyone else in town, but in fact, she had not yet went to bed - she was eventually to rise from bed in three of four in the after noon.'' Its a harmless and amusing anecdote, so i'm reintroducing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.43.6 (talk) 13:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC) Here is the reference: --85.226.43.6 (talk) 13:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Spelling errors means incorrect information?
I feel as if I cannot trust this article, as there were numerous spelling errors that I had to fix. I suggest the article be reviewed by a competent historian to ensure accuracy. Da.skitz (talk) 04:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The article was written by a Swede, who´s first language is not English, therefore the spelling errors. It was written with information by books written by Swedish historians. Spelling errors is therefore not an indicator of ignorance. If you were to write an article in Swedish, you too will make spelling errors, no matter how well you know the subject. As the text is entirely built upon the information in (cited) books written by historians, it is already reviewed by historians. A person may be well informed about history, and still make spelling errors when writing in a foreign language. --85.226.45.121 (talk) 11:42, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the article of her here on english wiki is probably the most correct of all wikis; this article is based on swedish history books, while its eqvivalents on the other wikis are often based on the novel of Anne Marie Selinko, which is a novel, not facts. They should learn from this version! --85.226.47.243 (talk) 15:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Ange Chiappe
The information about her alleged affair with Ange Chiappe (they did now each other, and he was her escort, though their relationship is not proven to be physical) is from the cited reference by Lars Elgklou: ''Bernadotte. Historien - eller historier - om en familj'' (Bernadotte. The History - or historys - of a family). I do not know how to link this citation however. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 18:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It is also referenced by the cited book: * --85.226.47.151 (talk) 19:16, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Further confirmation comes from historian J.-F. Chiappe, the tidbit appears in the short-bio of his 1970ies biographic collection Le monde au féminin : encyclopédie des femmes célèbres. That entry was written by Bernadette de Castelbajac, however she seems to have deliberately overemphasized Ange Chiappe's significance in the bio in order to namedrop the famous ancestor of the editor of the book. --Enyavar (talk) 16:43, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Education
As for her education, which was also asked for; The books about her, (among others those mentioned above), claim, that her education was that of an upper-class woman in general; not completely uncultivated, only that she simply learned was was considered apropriate for women in general; religion, etiquette, dance, history of the royal family, and some music. They were many very well educated women in the French aristocraty of course, but no where is she said to have belonged to them. More than that, however, I am not able to help. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 19:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Mixup?
I wonder if this was really Desiree: She had a place in the coronation ceremony in 1804, holding the empress's train, and was later to say that she had supported Joséphine when the Bonaparte sisters also holding the train had tried to make the empress lose her balance. Could this perhaps be a mixup? I have heard, that it was actually her sister, Julie Clary, who did this, so perhaps the sisters have been confused with each other --85.226.42.9 (talk) 17:46, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Too much pro-Charlotte stuff?
I was citing the words of Queen Charlotte here not the words of Lindqvist, who reported Charlotte's words acccurately. It is well known to history that Crown Princess Desideria was treated with coldness, disdain and rudeness by Queen Charlotte, and I'll be glad to quote all of the disdainful comments Charlotte made about Desideria, if necessary, to prevent an un balanced pro-Charlotte POV from prevailing in this article. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:11, 8 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Add as much as You want from what Charlotte actually said, but to call it "disdain" is an interpretation of what she said, not what she said. Herman Lindqvist can never be used as a reference for any serious historical information anywhere, something everyone with an education in Sweden knows. I am leaving your addition for one reason only: I do not have the motivation, or the energy, to argue with you about anything. I have stopped that years ago. Not because experience tell me that you have the right on your side, but because it tells me that you are impossible to communicate with. I just wished you were not so insistent upon censuring articles in accordance to your own personal opinions based on bad references as you are. You are the reason to why I so seldom have the motivation to engage in article subjects I know that you are also interested in any more. I just don't have the energy to argue with you. You have been cautioned about your behavior on Swedish Wikipedia numerous times, and judging from your edit history, you are starting to get a reputation here as well. Just look at your posts in the talk pages of Queen Christina and Queen Helwig. Are you looking for a fight here as well? I hope someone will deal with your disruptive activity eventually. I prefer to avoid having anything to do with you before ensuring the quality on Wikipedia. If you are hoping to pick a fight with me, then I am afraid you are mistaken: I prefer to let you have your way despite the fact that you are wrong, because it is more important for to me to avoid you and your arguments rather than to ensure quality. This describes your contribution to Wikipedia and the working climate here very well. I will allow you do have your way. Good day. --Aciram (talk) 00:32, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Please try harder never to personalize your lengthy input on article talk pages this drastically. If you have any valid complaints against me as a WP user, there are effective ways of dealing with them here on enWP. This type of extensive personal attack ("Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. When in doubt, comment on the article's content without referring to its contributor at all.") is not one of them, and is not constructive.
 * The issue here is whether or not Queen Charlotte expressed disdain, mainly, toward Crown Princess Desideria in her diary. She did, and her own wording in her diary clearly shows that, as quoted with accuracy (for once) by Lindqvist. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 10:26, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Contradiction
The infobox says she was Catholic but then in the Crown Princess paragraph it says she wasn't religious. So was she religious or not? 86.45.226.161 (talk) 19:13, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * She occasionally went to a Catholic church in Sweden specially arranged in a a top-floor room of Stockholm Palace for her and her daugher-in-law. Queen Desideria was not considered devout. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:34, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Historical Accuracy
NOTE: This section "Meeting the Bonapartes" is not historically accurate, part of it taken directly from the fictional biography "Desiree" by Annemarie Selinko. The names of family members do not match the previous section. This section needs to be edited for historical accuracy and fictional accounts removed.

Editorial moved from article by Britmax (talk) 08:30, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I am removing most of it now. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 02:21, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Not known when she began to use Désirée rather than Eugénie?
To and including her coronation in 1829 her first given name was Eugénie/Eugenia which also seems to have been her name of address until then. All of her husband's letters are directed to and mention no other name. I have tried to find information about the change of her name of address from Eugénie/Eugenia to Désirée/Desideria. My theories are that it was sometime after her granddaughter Princess Eugénie of Sweden (Charlotta Eugenia Augiust etc etc) was born in 1830 and began to be called by her second given name, and/or after her king-husband's death in 1844 (when the granddaughter would have been 14). Certainly this woman is known to history mostly as Désirée Clary, and she signed her name Désirée, at least officially as queen. My question is why, and if anyone finds anything well sourced about that it would be great to add it to the article. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 07:00, 25 February 2018 (UTC)