Talk:Da Vinci's Demons

Comment
A few minutes ago this page was very informative, now it say NOTHING. 64.203.182.109 (talk) 18:28, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I reverted a recent edit due to formatting problems, removal of some content, grammatical errors, etc. Feel free to post sources here with information to be added to the article, discuss concerns you have with the revert, or update the article using proper formatting, etc. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:32, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

VERY well known and experienced UK producers Julie Gardner & Jane Tranter will produce the show and it will last for eight-episodes (to start, I assume) 64.203.182.109 (talk) 18:45, 28 October 2011 (UTC) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/starz-orders-david-goyers-da-253062
 * If you will provided a more reliable source I'd be happy to include this detail. I do not believe Hollywood Reporter is considered reliable. -- Another Believer  ( Talk ) 18:56, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Hollywood Reporter is not reliable?? It is a weekly business magazine focused on the film & TV biz published by the mother company of Billboard Magazine. It is a competitor to Variety, so I really do not understand why it could not be reliable. But I could be wrong. Here is a link with similar info from Radio Times, the UK's answer to TV Guide: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2011-10-26/new-series-da-vinci's-demons-announced-by-bbc-worldwide-and-starz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.182.109 (talk) 19:30, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118045024?categoryid=14&cs=1&cmpid=RSS%7CNews%7CLatestNews 64.203.182.109 (talk) 19:37, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

What have I done VsanoJ (talk) 20:41, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

can we please add episode 8 the lovers? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.161.140.89 (talk) 06:02, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

First broadcast
Vietnam	STAR Movies[34]	April 28, 2013

This can't be right. I am watching it now and I am in VN. Mahaparvata (talk) 16:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Theme
Noteworthy enough that as an homage to Leonardo's ability to write backwards the theme is also a musical palindrome? Corresponding entry on Bear McCreary's official video blog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ymDF3CdBc --188.195.195.21 (talk) 17:36, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Leo X
If this article is correct about Leonardo being 25 years of age at the show's start, that would make it the year 1477. Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici, later Pope Leo X, was born in 1475. Interestingly I have not seen him make an appearance, even though Lorenzo de' Medici's family makes plenty of appearances. 62.195.72.200 (talk) 20:27, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I felt that this section regarding Faithfulness to Historical time is not advancing an agenda, and is well sourced from other areas of Wikipedia. Shakespeare deviated from the historical timeline to advance his drama, as do most historical fiction writers. I would consider the delay of the birth of Leo X by a few years is consistent with the writers attempt to build suspense regarding Leonardo's marriage. In a similar way Nico had to age by roughly a decade or he wouldn't be interesting character. Unfortunately, this section has been deleted twice (see comments below).Pacomartin (talk) 07:54, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Faithfulness to Historical Timeline
The show clearly has fantasy elements, but it works within a historical context. Leonardo is portrayed in a manner similar to Sherlock Holmes and other later fictional detectives. Deviations from the historical timeline for dramatic effect are usually off by only a few months or years.
 * Cosimo de' Medici appears in a flashback sequence in season 1, episode 8 which is labelled as 13 years earlier. In reality he died on 1 August 1464 at the age of 74. In the television sequence is with the 3 other Sons of Mithras and they discuss the young Leonardo da Vinci. In reality Leonardo was the age of 12 when Cosimo died, and still living in Vinci. In the TV series it is stated that three of the four Sons of Mithras will die soon after this meeting.
 * Season 1 opens in episode 1 with the assassination of Galeazzo Maria Sforza in a church which occurred on 26 December 1476 in reality, but is presented as Easter 1477 in the series.
 * Season 1 closes in episode 8 with the assassination of Giuliano de' Medici in a church which occurred on 26 April 1478. In reality, Giuliano's son by his mistress was born a month after his death, and he had a long standing relationship with her. In the series his mistress is portrayed as getting pregnant by a single night's relationship that happened only months earlier. In real life their son was legitimized and would become Pope Clement VII in 1523.
 * Lorenzo de' Medici had both sons born by 1475, but are in the television series he and his wife have no sons, only daughters, and are trying to bear a son. His oldest son, Piero the Unfortunate would succeed him in Florence, but his second son would become Pope Leo X in 1513.
 * Vlad III Dracula died on December 19, 1476 which is within the general timeframe of the first season, but there is no historical evidence that Leonardo da Vinci went to his castle. But such a trip was not physically impossible and in keeping with the fantasy element of the series.
 * In 1469 Lorenzo de' Medici organized a tournament in honor of Lucrezia Donati, the wife of Niccolò Ardinghelli. However the relationship between Lucrezia and Lorenzo was platonic where he dedicated poems to her, but it was not physical. In real life, Andrea del Verrocchio, Leonardo's mentor, was the artist commissioned to do a portrait of Lucrezia for Lorenzo. In the television series it's Leonardo who is commissioned.
 * The character and friend of Leonardo named Nico, who appears to be Niccolò Machiavelli was actually born on 3 May 1469. In reality he would be only 7–9 years old in the time frame of the first season. The age of Nico is not revealed in the series, and other characters frequently call him "Young Nico" but the actor who portrays him, Eros Vlahos, is age 18.
 * Florentine court records of 1476 show that Leonardo and three other young men were charged with sodomy and acquitted. In the television series Leonardo is tried alone.
 * Leonardo lived in the home of his mother until age 5 when he moved to the home of his father. He was an illegitimate child in reality.
 * Leonardo da Vinci did vanish from the historical record for almost 2 years after his trial. In the TV series he is trying to go to South America, which he knows from the Book of Leaves. While the timeline of the TV series is 14 years before the first Voyage of Columbus, and 23 years before the discovery of Brazil, there were stories of Pre-Columbian voyages to the new world, like that of João Vaz Corte-Real. The first voyage from Cape Verde Islands to Brazil took 31 days, but it is possible to do so in much less time, so it was theoretically possible for a Portuguese Caravel (developed in 1450) to do the voyage.

Pacomartin (talk) 07:54, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

The show is pure fantasy. Florentine guards wearing Spain's Civil Guard Three Corned hats??? Why no US Army stenson hats??? they are from the same time period after all... It only lacks Abraham Lincoln

--83.56.229.98 (talk) 12:39, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Nico is Machiavelli?
This article links Nico's name with Niccolo Machiavelli under the cast list. The show starts in 1477 CE, and Nico is clearly in his late teens at the youngest. Machiavelli was born in 1469 CE (According to his own Wikipedia article). If Nico were Machiavelli, he'd have to be 8 years old! The citation for this (#10) seems to be based on conjecture. Then again, it's a fictional, and fantastical, show, so they could be altering the timeline to fit their needs. Is there a better citation, say a source close to the show creators, that substantiates the current linking of Nico to Machiavelli? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.228.26.249 (talk) 08:35, 8 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The reference didn't even support the idea that Nico is a young Machiavelli. It's been changed. Ryan8374 (talk) 03:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

the show's own promotional materials, as well as twitter-comments by various persons involved with the production (actors included) all treat nico as = niccolo machiavelli. so unless it's been changed (& re-conned?), or was some elabourate trick, that remains the case.

the show is playing VERY loose & fast with dates, historical details, etc. for example, it showed the NEW st. peter's basillica in rome, ~120 years too soon (& before "renovation"/demolition of the old st. peter's had even begun). this is about equivalent to having london's pickle/gherkin building turn up in queen victoria's time...

they've also got vlad the impaler turning up at time in history when he was busy making his last attempt @ ruling wallachia (during the last year of his life, or already dead; depending on what "year" the series is set in), which ended in his assasination @ age 45. he was in hungary, wallachia & thereabouts in what is now modern romania the whole time; with no indication that he went on an "italian adventure" that year, & with little probability that he would have had the time or opportunity for such long-distance travelling.

nor is there much indication that he EVER went to italy.


 * eh, nvm the above; they have it set in "romania" according to the episode description; but even setting aside the lack of correlation with davinci's actual movements, this is playing pretty loose with travel time-over-distance, etc.

so unless they plan to pull a "willie adama" or something, i'd assume the chronology with nico is just a "fudge".


 * they are also REALLY fudging leo's sexuality; both in the story & in the press materials for the show. for "some/many historians think he was gay" it would be more correct to read "almost all davinci historians agree that he was gay"; & there is literally NO evidence in the historical record, of his ever having had any romantic<sexual relationships with any women, at all, whatsoever...


 * endrant

Lx 121 (talk) 19:47, 31 May 2013 (UTC) Another historical error is in the 1st episode, one of the first scenes shows him smoking tobacco. Tobacco came from the Americas that had ye to be discovered. I know he has the map for South America but he smoked the tobacco like it was a common thing to do and as if it had been around for ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.94.118 (talk) 08:01, 10 June 2013 (UTC)


 * This series is not completely historical. However, in the final episode of season 2 "Sins of Daedalus," Nico tells Clarice Orsini, "My name is Nico Machiavelli."--2601:C4:CA00:E0D0:B855:DDAC:338E:5252 (talk) 21:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

The F word
What's all that discussion about timeline of usage of "Fuck" and "Fukkit"? It does really have to do anything with the show, in which everyone speaks an almost modern version of english, and for sure it does not have anything to do with the history setting, since all characters actually only spoke italian or some dialect whence italian derived. 82.48.129.199 (talk) 23:25, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

The Old English Dictionary site 1503 as the earliest written occurrence of the word, and 1535 for it's current spelling. The assumption is that a vulgar word is ancient before it was written down given censureship. The author may be realistic in depicting it as part of vernacular speech at the time. There is no way to know historically.

A common Italian word is "fottere" which look like the English word but is unrelated. "Fottere" is derived from Latin "futuere", which probably meant to "knock" or "strike off". It came to be associated with sex, for the same basic reason that the English word "bang" was associated.

There is a story called "Flen flyys," written in bastard Latin and Middle English. The relevant line reads: Non sunt in celi quia fuccant uuiuys of heli

It is possible that the writer was simply using Latin so that he could get away with cursing. Pacomartin (talk) 08:06, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Faithfulness to Historical Timeline: deleted
I deleted the section "Faithfulness to Historical Timeline" as it's completely unsourced WP:SYN. WP editors can only report criticism, not originate it. Note that citing facts to "prove" that some event in the series was "faithful" or not is the show is exactly WP:SYN. Please read that section if you are tempted to revert. We can only report such issues if a reliable source (e.g. a critic in a journal) that actually discusses the series' historical accuracy or otherwise. And the show is a fantasy, not a documentary after all. However, brief notes might be added to a plot description linking to articles on the historical events that inspired the story. 202.81.243.184 (talk) 19:03, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

As I said earlier, there was no criticism either good or bad intended. I simply reported facts. Many authors of fantasies work very hard to keep historical details fairly accurate (except for some time shifting for dramatic purposes). The fantasy is more interesting if it fits in with the known facts. No one believes that Leonardo da Vinci was present at the death of Dracula, but by placing the story very near the historical death of Dracula, it makes the story more engaging.Pacomartin (talk) 08:11, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Article Rewrite and Faithfulness to the Historical Timeline
I have rewritten pretty much the entire article and provided new sources as it had poor grammar and was somewhat ambiguous with certain details. I have also created a Casting Section as there are enough sources out there to provide sufficient information. I was wondering if the Faithfulness to the Historical Timeline Section is going to remain in the article or not. I have removed the bullet point format and removed most of the info and replaced them with one or two examples as to why they were changed instead. The bullet point format was listing various changes and it is hard to argue which examples should be included and omitted. Some info was also just trivial. It doesn't report any criticisms anymore and isn't likely to cause debate though it still lacks sources. I was just wondering. Thanks. - Stone Giants (talk • contribs) 20:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

So apparently the show is American
I didn't really question it when I was rewriting the article. But after I came across The Guardian article I googled it and all the sources I gathered have stated the same. I think only one source should suffice in the article. I don't know whether or not this will prove to be a major problem and if there are other opinions then feel free to comment away. Could someone please help in converting the British English used in the article as I am not American and so don't really know what is what. A similar situation occurred on Game of Thrones and The Borgias just to provide some examples, though I'm sure we can come to our own consensus. Thanks. - Stone Giants (talk • contribs) 00:36, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Would someone be able to create an archive index for this page so we can store some of the older discussions before it gets too big. I know many are larger than this but it could still do with the occasional cleaning. Thanks - Stone Giants (talk • contribs) 22:28, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

The article used to say British-American production. I have added "produced in Great Britain" since it is made by BBC, filmed in Britain with a British crew, cast and directors. The writing staff is about 50% American, 50% Britons. Yes, BBC Worldwide are producing it for Starz, but it is not a straight up US production, like Boardwalk Empire or CSI. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.203.182.106 (talk) 13:25, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Deletion without justification
User:Magitroopa, you deleted my edits without justification. I noticed that you went to all my edits and reverted my edits. It looks like you want me to create an account. Well, I won't because of stalkers like you. 2601:C4:CA00:E0D0:2C5E:4473:516C:E981 (talk) 15:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)