Talk:Dai Bai Zan Cho Bo Zen Ji

permissions
Much of the wording of the history of Cho Bo Ji is from the "Choboji History" web page. this web page has been released under the "GNU Free Documentation License" (GFDL 1.2), and notification sent to Wikipedia. - Rgrant (talk) 04:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

notability
Why does this establishment merit an article? --Lukobe 00:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Lukobe, the qualifications for notability are ineffable. In considering whether an online resource (Wikipedia) is enriched rather than diluted by the presence of a local institution (this zendo), one might start by noting that there is a community associated with Cho Bo Zen Ji, that the community is involved in the wider community, and that its involvement has been noted in recent news articles.  One might continue by noting the relative rarity of Zen Temples in Seattle in general, and by noting that Wikipedia  is an accepted resource for discovering Buddhist temples.  Consider also that even though this is not a massive skyscraper, it might be of interest for its own subtle reasons. Finally, take note that the article is still marked as a  Zen stub, and consider judging it relative to other unfinished local temple articles in that topic:
 * Bodhi Manda Zen Center
 * Hazy Moon Zen Center
 * Kanzeon Zen Center
 * Providence Zen Center
 * San Francisco Zen Center
 * White Wind Zen Community
 * Zen Mountain Monastery
 * - Rgrant 02:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you can expand the article to make all this clear, then. As it stands I don't believe its location is even specified. (Sorry you consider this an "edit war"--I certainly don't.) --Lukobe 04:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it's pretty clear to me that general notions of notability as applied to the properties of a Zen Temple are not actually germane to the notability of specific Zen Temples.  I think the location information is a good idea and i've made that change.  I'm researching more specific claims of notability that might apply, as this Zen Temple has been in the area for nearly three decades.  (I envision noting this as the article grows from a stub into a finished article.)  Here are some areas of work i see the article needing:
 * lineage notes, and connections to other notable temples
 * list of teachers and their connections to the Rinzai school of Zen
 * an image of the Zendo
 * some notes about the sangha
 * With this plan in mind, may we move beyond questioning the importance of the topic?
 * - Rgrant 05:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Certainly, and I'll remove the tag if you haven't done so already. --Lukobe 06:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm glad we could resolve this. I do find that Wikipedia's guidelines are now very fresh in mind. - Rgrant 07:06, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

General notability and citations addressed
Issues of "general notability and "written like and advertisement" have been addressed with changes to copy, the addition of footnotes and citations, references to related Wikipedia topics, updated and verified external links, references and activities. I believe this article is now on par or superior to the many Wikipedia articles on Zen Centers in the West.  User:Zenquaker  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zenquaker (talk • contribs) 22:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree about the general notability. The only two citations you've added are for the name for who founded it. The first is cited to a general directory; that's not different than citing a phone book -- yes, we know the temple exists. Everything else comes directly from the web site of the temple -- a primary source, which is generally not accepted (because it's self-promotion on their part).  howcheng  {chat} 00:43, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Ten more notes/references have now been added.Zenquaker (talk) 05:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Unsui
Just curious....how does one ordain as an unsui? (Mind meal (talk) 21:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC))

At Chobo-Ji to become an unsui one must first do Jukai, which at Chobo-Ji requires attending at least two week-long sesshins, and then complete a year's apprenticeship attending 5 week-long sesshins (four at Chobo-Ji and Rohatsu Sesshin at Dai Bosatsu Zendo Kongo-ji).--Zenquaker (talk) 16:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Promoting style
To me this article is clearly a promotion of the place and the teacher. There are no independent sources attached, apart from many sites and materials written by the subject of page. Can this be changed or improved? Wiki is not an advertisement agency nor forum for one's teaching. This is an encyclopedia. Changing the tone, including only few facts with proper citations would be enough, excluding the ones without any prove. I wonder what other editors think? Spt51 (talk) 15:23, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). — μ 18:47, February 7 2011 (UTC)

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