Talk:Dallas Fort Worth International Airport/Archive 1

Wright Amendment
I'm removing the recent addition about the Wright Amendment controversy. It completely violates the NPOV guideline. CF 00:58, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

should the link to Keep DFW Strong be removed? it probably shouldn't be there unless the corresponding anti-Wright Amendment website Wright Amendment Repeal Page is listed.--68.231.52.224 00:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Airline tags
What's the point of all those airline logos? feydey 23:21, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

/ to -
If you are going to change all /'s to -'s please apply it to all of them instead of only a few. There is always CTRL+F if you didn't know.
 * The policy decided on by the Wikiproject was to use dashes. If I missed a destination or two, then go ahead and fix them, rather than reverting the entire edit. Dbinder 15:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, slashes should be used when listing multi-city airports, but dashes when clarifying which airport in a city.. For example, Minneapolis/St. Paul, but Chicago-O'Hare. Dbinder 15:12, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Diagram
Is there anyway we can get a terminal diagram up like the one there is on the George Bush Intercontinental Airport page ? 19:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Champion Air
If you go to the home page, they recently put Champion on the list. If you agree, put the airline on the list. Thanks Oneriver505 23:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Just three days ago, I landed at DFW from SJU and I saw two Champion Air 727's and three Aeromexico 737 Boeings from my Boeing 757. I wonder what's the current status of those carriers at DFW? Antonio Demon of Flight Martin", 17:49, May 31, 2008 (UTC)

Skylink Topspeed
Sources on the topspeed of the Skylink seem to be in conflict with one another. Please see the Skylink discussion page for more information. RedPoptarts 12:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Don't bother taking off LGW, LHR you're clear for take off.
A few months ago, I came on to this page, and found that AA was going to cancel the Gatwick route, and put in a Heathrow route. A few weeks later, Gatwick was back, but no Heathrow. Then it switched again. Then it happened that both are there. That's now. Could someone clarify? Basketball110 17:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Not to worry. AA has stated they would fly to both Heathrow and Gatwick when the LHR service starts. 69.249.65.12 (talk) 21:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Airtrans
The article says, "Later, the Airtrans at DFW was split into three separate systems, the regular Airport Train, an employee train, and the American Airlines TrAAin." As far as I can remember the regular Airtrans for passengers and the employee train always existed. They used the same track, but the employee train faced the other side, and its stations were more spartan (no glass doors, bare concrete, and largely obscured from view). I also remember "flatcars," I don't know if these were used for cargo or what. "Airtrans" also refers to a bus service, using the same logo, paint scheme etc. that ran between the terminals, parking ,car rental etc. There was also an intercity bus service (e.g. from the airport to downtown Dallas) called "Surtrans" that used a font and logo similar to that of Airtrans. Unfortunately I don't have sources for any of this other than personal recollection. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Shuttle Landing
I have deleted the claim that this airport was the first commercial airport to host a shuttle landing in 1989, since all landings of the shuttle in that year were at Edwards Air Force Base (check the Shuttle Mission Archive). This could refer to a landing of the shuttle aboard its 747 carrier aircraft, in which case the claim could be put back into the article. Although this wouldn't be a "shuttle landing" in the strictest sense, and the claim would have to be reworded. Willy Logan 01:10, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

This always confused me by what was meant since the shuttle clearly never landed here at the end of it's mission. That would have been easily sourced if it had. I thought maybe they meant it had landed there carried on the NASA 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft for an open house. If this was the case DFW would be far from unique. Many airports such as Paris Le Bourget have had that honor. However I think I finally found, quite by accident, what the author really meant. In 1989 following the STS-30 mission Atlantis landed at Edwards AFB. Normally the NASA 747 SCA ferries it back to Florida by refueling at two air force bases enroute depending on weather. The shuttle tiles lose their water proof coating during re entry and it is imperitive the NASA 747 SCA avoid any bad weather that may expose the shuttle to rain. It appears on this ferry flight back they had to land at DFW to avoid rain at their intended destination. This would be the first time (and only time I've heard of) that following the end of a mission the shuttle has stopped at a commercial airport enroute back to Florida. www.airliners.net/open.file/014096/L shows the NASA 747 SCA with Atlantis at DFW following this mission. User:skywayman 00:46, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Just a note, I seem to remember something about DFW being the only commercial facility with a runway long enough to land the shuttle, but I may be hallucinating. Eaglizard (talk) 23:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

question about being largest airline
when reading the wikipedia article American Airlines, it states that AA is the second largest airline group in the world, behind Air France-KLM. Yet on the DFW Airport article, it states that AA is the world's largest?

65.69.188.137 14:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Combined, AF-KL is the largest, but the two still operate as separate airlines. The largest single carrier is AA. Dbinder (talk) 15:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought Delta was the largest. Basketball110 (talk) 01:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Combined with Northwest, DL is now the world's biggest carrier, but the 2 carriers are still operating seperately (Like AF-KLM). Until DL and NWA start acting as one airline (which will be this time next year), AA is still the worl'd largest in terms of passengers and fleet size. Cashier freak (talk) 04:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Former Routes
What happened to the section on former destinations from DFW? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.249.65.188 (talk) 19:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Per consensus at WP:AIRPORTS, former destinations are not to be listed unless they are complete and well-referenced. Those belong in airline destinations. Charmedaddict (talk) 21:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Disasters
Why does the Disasters section list many things that are simply incidents? In fact, why are many of the incidents listed at all? Is it somehow germane to the airport that a flight from there had to divert due to engine problems? I don't think it is.

Also, I really feel sure there have been more actual disasters at DFW than Flight 191. (And here I'm defining 'disaster' as 'somebody died', simplicist that I am.) Maybe there haven't been, maybe I'm just misunderestimating* DFW's safety record. (* sorry, trying to get ready for our new village idio... er, local (p)resident. :^P) Eaglizard (talk) 23:47, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have moved the old (somewhat dramatically named) Disasters section into the more appropriately named Accidents and incidents in line with WikiProject Airports guidelines. I have also removed the non-notable incident regarding an engine failure, again in accordance with the guidelines. SempreVolando (talk) 11:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The Dukes of Hazards Tryouts at D/FW Airport- Drunk Driver Goes All Genral Lee
Should their be a section about accidents and incidents that don't involve just planes? There have been other incidents such as what happened on June 6, 2010. A drunk driver was speeding down International Parkway and hit a toll booth, which caused the car to fly through the air and damaging the toll booth. No one was hurt during this, though. Mes tex (Mes tex (talk) 17:35, 18 June 2010 (UTC)) —Preceding undated comment added 17:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC).

Air France
Is there an official link that mentions Air France to be starting service to DFW this March? If not I will delete it. (talk)
 * Can't book such on AF site. Deleting. HkCaGu (talk) 21:42, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't add until an official press release is given from Air France itself. If the flight cannot be booked, then it is not starting. Snoozlepet (talk) 05:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily true that if a flight can't be booked, it isn't starting. There are still many details and months before it is "supposed" to start.  I agree though, until DFW airport or AF announces it, don't add it.  I wonder if AF will replace KLM's A330 service that may or may not be coming back next spring.  Just lack of Skyteam movement is DFW, I don't think both KLM and AF could survive.  71.240.189.5 (talk) 05:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Airport City?
According to the linked "airport city" article, that term refers to the "inside the fence" shops, hotels, terminals & infrastructure. The gist of that article seems to indicate that almost any larger sized airport could have at least parts of it referred to as the "airport city". Perhaps this should be moved down the the 6th paragraph where the text talks about "in many ways, DFW is run like a small city." IMHO this bit either needs to go or be rewritten... thoughts? JByrd (talk) 21:21, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved: insufficient support. DrKiernan (talk) 15:19, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport → Dallas–Fort Worth International Airport – Style as in Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex, per MOS:DASH. Dicklyon (talk) 02:23, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The airport's name is the airport's name and has nothing to do with what the MOS says about the metroplex. HkCaGu (talk) 02:43, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Support MOS:DASH and slashes cause technical problems as well. -- 65.92.181.190 (talk) 04:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Slashes used to cause problems because of being a directory but are no longer an issue. The only characters that can not be used are the forbidden characters # < > [ ] | { } Apteva (talk) 05:26, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose. This is not even contestable. The airport is clearly named with a slash. Apteva (talk) 05:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The name is not in question, just the styling. The airport's own publications vary, sometimes using space instead of slash.  Quite a few books, including Fodor's guide, style it with en dash.  It's clearly a style choice.  Dicklyon (talk) 05:44, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "Quite a few" is misleading - as the vast majority use the correct name. Punctuation of a proper name is not really a style issue. If it was, spelling Julia Louis/Drefus like this would be acceptable. It is more like stylistic license than style. Apteva (talk) 05:59, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * We decide based on policy and guidelines. If you want to change those, you should do it on their talk pages. — kwami (talk) 06:27, 25 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose per dfwairport.com.  Also, speedy close per WP:SNOW.  Follow the usage in sources, for crying out loud!  --Born2cycle (talk) 05:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per MOS. Clear case of WP:ENDASH, though the slash isn't too bad. — kwami (talk) 06:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose: the airport authorities refer to themselves as "Dallas/Fort Worth", and thus that should be our article title. Whether that agrees with what our manual of style would do if we were running the airport is irrelevant.  (A case in point would be the Canadian clothing retailer Urban Behavior, which uses the US spelling of "behavior" rather than the Canadian "behaviour", even though our manual of style would insist on the Canadian spelling.)  The MOS does not trump the airport's actual name.  --RFBailey (talk) 02:06, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Neutral This seems to be a style issue and the MOS should apply. While my reading of the MOS tends to lean towards supporting the move, the MOS:SLASH section has the following exception "where a slash occurs in a phrase widely used outside Wikipedia, and a different construction would be inaccurate, unfamiliar, or ambiguous", which seems like it might fit in this case. The use of an en-dash in other occurrences of Dallas–Fort Worth seem to weaken that argument, though to me personally a slash here feels more natural. PaleAqua (talk) 03:16, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It's hard to see how the en dash could be considered "inaccurate, unfamiliar, or ambiguous", given it's use in multiple books such as Fodor's (linked above) and the Lone Star Guide and others, not to mention the frequent use of space or hyphen instead. Dicklyon (talk) 03:29, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Support True enough. Suppose I have to support. Still feels a little wrong to me compared to other en-dash moves, which I mostly support. Looks like the Lone Star Guide uses both, which means that the unfamiliar exception doesn't apply. Inaccurate differently doesn't apply, and ambiguous doesn't either as I can imagine anyone reading Fort and Worth as being separate.PaleAqua (talk) 01:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Coppell
Can anyone provide a source that the airport is actually in Coppell among the others? There seems to be no doubt as to the other three, but it appears that no part is actually within Coppell. The northern boundary of the airport, roughly, is the 114, no? But Coppell's southern boundary is I-635. That would be incongruous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.56.35 (talk) 17:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

The northern boundary of DFW Airport is Bethel Rd in Coppell — Preceding unsigned comment added by CaptThunder (talk • contribs) 04:51, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

London Heathrow (LHR)
Recently people keep adding London/Heathrow to airlines such as United Airlines. DFW cannot fly direct to LHR but to London/Gatwick (LGW). This is similar to airports such as Atlanta (ATL) that only flies to LGW.

This should be removed All airlines now fly to Heathrow, both American Airlines and British Airways fly non-stop from DFW to LHR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.215.129 (talk) 21:19, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Airport location
It is ridiculous that I have explained my every revert, and yet a third party can simply say "I agree" and demand me to "take it to talk". I will oblige, but will not wait.
 * It is already stated in the article and unchallenged that the airport is within the city limits of the four stated cities. Saying "neighboring" is wrong.
 * "DFW Airport, TX" is a postal location. The "entity", if at all used, refers to the airport itself. You cannot have an airport located at the airport.
 * There is no authoritative use of "DFW Airport, Texas". If we can only call it ", TX", it is itself a reason to disqualify its use as "location" of the airport.
 * It is a widely recognized standard across Wikipedia that place names are according to USGS and also communities according to Census. Postal "cities" are summarily rejected as "locations" especially when they are included in any city limits and Census-defined communities, and postal boundaries are likewise rejected whenever differ from political boundaries. Various San Fernando Valley communities with postal city names are called "(whatever) district in Los Angeles". Perhaps the best example is SFO, owned by the City of SF and given the name and ZIP "San Francisco, CA 94128", but its "location" is not at all SF but "unincorporated San Mateo County". HkCaGu (talk) 19:53, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Add DFW Airport, texas to location. I support the change to adding "DFW Airport, Texas" as a location for the aiport.  I agree with that addition to the article as made by an ealier edit of the article.  Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 23:52, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Multiple Issues?
What multiple issues does this article have? It has plenty of citations all over the place, including "inline" citations and this article is anything but outdated since its updated every few days. Can someone enlighten me on this? Baseball  Watcher  05:10, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Spirit Airlines
Spirit operates all departures out of E. E has no customs clearance so the Mexico flights arrive into D.  It is unclear to the reader to list Spirit as using both D and E.   Some travelers use Wikipedia for information about their travels and it is more clear to the reader to have "all" the information they need. Therefore the section on International Arrivals. RicHicks (talk) 00:39, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Busiest international routes from DFW (January 2013 – December 2013)
Can somebody help me on the citation for this and resulting information in the page I want to recreate this for other airports? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Travisn917 (talk • contribs) 00:07, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

American Airlines service to Beijing
AA has applied to start nonstop flights from DFW to PEK from next summer as per http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/09/25/american-airlines-to-launch-service-from-dfw-to-beijing/ but Beijing should not be listed until an exact date is announced and route approved. So please do not add PEK into the destinations table until the exact date is given as per WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT. 71.12.206.168 (talk) 17:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request
Can someone add Beijing to American Airlines as a tentative start date of May 7, 2015 with "pending government approval" as service still needs approval? Source: http://www.dallasnews.com/business/airline-industry/20140925-american-airlines-seeks-ok-to-begin-dfw-beijing-flights.ece. 71.12.206.168 (talk) 05:25, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Per WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT, a firm date is required to add a new destination. &mdash;  LeoFrank  Talk 16:15, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
 * already added to table and the source provided and the one I provide has a start date of May 7, 2015. 71.12.206.168 (talk) 00:02, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2014
Jcchristie2 (talk) 03:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

American Eagle flies to BPT (Beaumont/Port Arthur Airport)from DFW as well.
 * Yes check.svg Done Stickee (talk) 11:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Operations vs Passengers
"Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (IATA: DFW, ICAO: KDFW) is the third busiest airport in the world in terms of operations."

What do you mean "in terms of operations?". Is it plane  movements or passenger numbers?

Answer:

Operations always refers to movements of aircraft Passengers refers to passengers. RicHicks (talk) 16:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Article title
Why isnt it written Dallas Forth Worth International Airport or Dallas-Forth Worth International Airport? inline with other dual city airports i.e Cologne Bonn Airport and Seattle-Tacoma International Airport inspector (talk) 12:28, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

The Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex is written most of the time as Dallas/Fort Worth. Airport signs in the DFW Metroplex either read DFW or D/FW they are never written D-FW RicHicks (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Pictures next to Airlines/Destinations
I removed the pictures because it cuts off some of the airports and splits them in half. This is also what the other airports wikipedia pages have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nrwairport (talk • contribs) 17:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Size of Manhatten?
On one of the shuttles it says the airport is the size of manhatten I have a bet running with my sister... Is it Gavinthesavage 19:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No, 1st) it's Manhattan, 2nd) the airport is larger by 4 sq. mi. 108.183.102.223 (talk) 07:33, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

DFW Airport Logo NEW
Will someone update this page with the new DFW Airport logo.RicHicks (talk) 17:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Economic Impact validation
This economic impact number is likely outdated or incomplete as compared to other airport's publications. I also recently saw an article about DFW that claimed a $37 B total annual economic impact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.85.144.78 (talk) 21:30, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

DFW Airport Size
On March 19,2017 at 18:50, I made a revision about the correct acreage of DFW in the third paragraph,which was reverted back. It states that DFW measures 18,076 acres(7,318 hectares or 29.8 square miles) Not correct. Ten years ago this was right (the acres) but not in 2017. DFW measures 17,207 acres=6,963 hectares=26.9 square miles. I have four sources to prove this. First, go to the DFW airport Fact Sheet. It states the statistics I just mentioned. Also Google Airport IQ 5010 and enter DFW, Google DFW Skyvector and Airport-data.com. DFW property is 17,207 acres of real property, go to their website to prove this. Reddit is not a good source for this as this info was from 2007. Airports change, and DFW ceded some 869 acres to the state of Texas.As recently as 2014, the correct acreage was on this page.2601:581:8500:949C:304C:CD3D:3958:6A95 (talk) 10:22, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Busiest international routes from DFW
Is the Busiest international routes from DFW table going to be updated for 2016 or 2017? That table is sure outdated. 2607:FEA8:A29F:FABD:C858:FFD9:F6BC:B3CC (talk) 14:34, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. Community Tech bot (talk) 00:51, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
 * DFW Airport Administration Building.jpg

Hi. I'm new to this so I apologize if I get the language and codes wrong. This photo was issued by DFW Aiport for the express purpose of copyright-free reproduction by news media and online information sources such as Wikipedia. Maybe the following notation applies? Jody Venturoni 22:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Edit Warring Discussion
I am requesting that User:Arnoboro please discuss and make the case for his series of edits that have transformed the longstanding state of the article. I think such discussion is useful and can garner positive results if we maintain a positive attitudes. Per WP:WAR: "When disagreement becomes apparent, one, both, or all participants should cease warring and discuss the issue on the associated talk page, or seek help at appropriate venues." Hopefully this edit war situation can be resolved per the guidelines provided above. I will try my best to resolve in a prompt manner, but I believe the status quo of the article before any major edits were applied by the user be the current version until we can come to a consensus on changes. 76.183.136.144 (talk) 18:35, 28 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I will make my case against the edits you have made to the article, specifically the now former 'Terminals' section; there are other parts of the articles you have edited that I object to, but its not worth my time to nitpick at every single thing. To me, this section in particular is what is most relevant to most users when they come to research or learn the basics of the airport. I will be using this diff as our center point of discussion. My main issue of contention is the now former 'Terminal' section of the article that has now been renamed and merged in the 'Facilities' section.

"The terminals at DFW are semicircular (except for the newest terminal, Terminal D, which is a 'square U' shape) and built around the airport's central north–south arterial road, International Parkway. Until the late 1990s, they were designated by a number (2 being northernmost, 4 being southernmost) and a letter suffix ('E' for East, 'W' for West). This system was later scrapped and the terminals are now lettered from A to E. Terminals A, C, and E (from north to south) are on the east side of the airport, while Terminals B and D (from north to south) are on the west side."


 * I believe this should be put back into the article. This does not apply to WP:NOTTRAVEL, this is simply a basic summary of the layout of the terminals within the airport followed by a brief history of the naming conventions before they were renamed alphabetically currently. This would also follow inline under WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT as "general information about the history of passenger facilities is encouraged."

Next, is the lack of section headings for the the various terminals. I would strongly urge that these be put back in. Per WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Airports) a 'Terminal' section along with 'History' and 'Airlines and destinations' sections is part of the suggested layout. While you may think it makes the article look "cluttered and excessive" per your words, each terminal has its own history and characteristics that is separate from one other. And let's say a reader wanted to read about a specific terminal say 'Terminal D' specifically, instead of going to the table of contents and selecting 'Terminal D' then being brought down to the section correspondingly, they would have to click 'Terminals', skim through the wall of text then to find 'Terminal D'. The way it is set up now looks like one giant wall of text and disorganized. I would suggest that each terminal be sectioned off under its terminal name under one section titled 'Terminals'. This follows in line with every other major article (that you haven't already edited) including Heathrow Airport, John F. Kennedy International Airport, Dubai International Airport, Beijing Capital International Airport, and many others.

Next, this excerpt of text was removed by you and I concur, it is outdated and may fall under WP:NOR.

"Terminal A is used primarily for American's Airbus A321, and Boeing 737 and 757 operations, although the terminal has gates capable of handling aircraft of sizes up to a Boeing 777. An American Airlines Admirals Club is located at gate A24."

You also seem to be inconsistent with what you remove. You removed the mentioning of the Admiral's Club from Terminal A but left it in B, C, and D. You mention "excessive information such as square footage of terminals" but left square footage of the concession area of Terminal D in the article, which I would argue is less relevant than the total square footage of the terminal.

Next, I would urge Emirates service to be put back into the article as follows:

"On April 3, 2014, DFW Airport CEO Sean Donohue announced that Emirates Airlines would upgrade their service from the Boeing 777-200LR to the Airbus A380 from October 1, 2014. However, due to low passenger demand, Emirates temporarily reverted to the 777 in February 2016, with plans to re-upgrade to the A380 in September. However, Emirates never switched back to the A380 following that, continuing flights with a 777-300ER. "

I do not believe this is excessive, does not fall under WP:NOTTRAVEL and I would consider to be "general information about the history of passenger facilities". This paragraph of information I feel is necessary with not only the significance of the Airbus A380 providing service to the airport, since it is the world's largest passenger airplane, but laymen would be interested to know that Emirates once did provide A380 service for a short period of time. All parts of that paragraph are short and right to the point. You see snippets of information like this in John F. Kennedy International Airport for example, so this isn't WP:NOR.

Next, I would suggest that Terminal E and the corresponding information concerning its satellite terminal be sectioned off. It would look more organized that way and the satellite terminal deserves its own section under Terminal E because it has it own history separate from the rest of Terminal E.

Next, I would suggest that information about future Terminal F be re-included as follows: "A sixth terminal, to be known as Terminal F, would be located directly south of Terminal D and across International Parkway from Terminal E, in the current Express South parking lot. The Skylink was designed and built to accommodate Terminal F, as the track follows a roughly semicircular path over the parking lot, similar to its path through the other terminals, instead of running in a straight line between Terminals D and E; with straight sections that are long enough to allow for station platforms. DFW Airport CEO Sean Donohue has said that Terminal F 'will likely be in our future,' as the airport anticipates 'serving almost 70 million customers annually by the end of the decade from the 60 million we serve today.' Donohue also stated that planning would begin in 2015. "

There is already supporting evidence provided in the references (namely the Airport CEO) that this terminal will be built. This is not WP:NOR nor WP:BALL]. This should be documented accordingly in the article, even if it hasn't been built yet. If your already not familiar with the airport currently, they have already build a hardstand built, you can partly see it being constructed around the parking lot here as well as the Skylink track mentioned in the above paragraph here You can see in articles like LaGuardia Airport that its not without substantiation to mention construction or future construction of airport facilities.

I feel this is enough to object and give reason to your edits at this time. Hopefully, if we have a positive dialogue and can work to improve the article in good faith we can discuss your other edits. But like I said above this section I believe to be the most important to get right first because of its relevance and importance. While I do not think your efforts to edit and condense various airport articles is malicious, I do think they are misguided. There is stuff that you are removing that is relevant to the article that you are missing and deleting just to delete in the name of being excessive and WP:NOTTRAVEL. If I had the time and resources to go through your other edits on other airport articles and object to them I would. There is a reason the information and layout of the article is the way it is. You have said " these sections are rarely changed" and I would say there's good reason, because not much in this article needs updating, if it does you see users doing it, namely the airlines and destinations section. The information within the terminals section is relevant and currently up to date, therefore no reason to change it. Again I hope we can have a positive dialogue going forward. 76.183.136.144 (talk) 03:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, the first two paragraphs above are unsourced and should be tagged or removed. To add we should not be listing every which gate belongs to which terminal. We should not be listing where the airline lounges are. We should not be listing where the "minute suites" are. All of this belongs on a travel website, and is backed up by WP:NOTDIR. Just because something can be sourced doesn't mean it should be included. An encyclopedia is meant to cover the topic at a high level and not go into these such scrupulous details. Garretka (talk) 12:48, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I take a dim view of WP:NOTTRAVEL, but I agree with Garretka on everything except one point: I would source and add first two paragraphs (which I assume are about the terminal renumbering in the 1990s?). Also, Terminal F is WP:TOOSOON generally, but I don't see any reason why we can't add a sentence about it. But anything involving aircraft types, et cetera comes off as very crufty. SportingFlyer  T · C  02:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Of these four blocks of text, the only part that violates NOTTRAVEL is the gate at which the Admirals Club is located. But I believe the details about the type of planes used is minutiae that is not necessary for this article. The Emirates service is something that is specific to flying with that airline but is not about the airport itself and the article would be unwieldy and off-topic if every airline's aircraft were listed; this is not about passenger facilities even if the A380 is special. The first paragraph about the terminals I believe is relevant to the airport itself and should be retained. Something about Terminal F should also be included, though I'm not sure how much is needed. The removed info about the parking garage should also be kept. Reywas92Talk 05:31, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

First off, the formatting layout in WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Airports) is just that, a suggestion. It does not have to be followed to the letter. In this article, people can find the terminal section quite easily without each terminal having its own header, hence, why it is bolded. They can also find other useful information about the airport infrastructure in one stop. It is better to consolidate sections rather than having 1,000 different headers for each little piece of information about the airport. Further summarization of the text could occur though.

Second, as it was a work in progress even when I was editing the pages, I had not removed all the square footage information. I often times will come back later after my initial edits (even if it is several months later) and find things that need to be changed. That shouldn't be used as an excuse. As I have said in my edits summaries, "more could be done".

Third, the Emirates information has nothing to do with the terminal information, as SportingFlyer said, even if the A380 is special, it is not relevant to the overall context of the section. And ultimately, the revert back to the A380 never happened.

Fourth, the satellite terminal in Terminal E is not notable enough where it needs to have it's own sub-header, it can be summarized in a paragraph. According to the edit history of this page, the header for the satellite didn't even exist prior to about a year ago.

Fifth, the Terminal F section is not needed under the terminal header because it does not exist yet, the terminal section should be for current terminals only. And while Terminal F is certainly in the planning stages, there is considerable uncertainty at this point as to whether or not it will be actually built in its current form, there is a chance (though not very likely) the airport could rebuild the terminal space into a whole new layout. In the meantime, I would support adding back in the Terminal F proposal information (with updated information about the discussions between the airport and AA), but under a Future section in the history section of the page like a lot of other airport pages have. In fact, when the lock is lifted, I may do just that.

At the end of the day, I would suggest we follow WP:NOTEVERYTHING and try to summarize things as much as possible. I am willing to add back in a few things such as the first paragraph and aforementioned info about Terminal F, but the general layout is not hurting anything needs to stay. Arnoboro (talk) 02:59, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Removing references for seasonal routes
has broken 3RR insisting with this edit [] that a reference is not needed. The general reference in this case clearly does not confirm that the particular flight is seasonal - a fact that the specific inline reference does (although rather badly) do. The problem here as several here have been forward in pointing out is that a third column of very general references is not particularly helpful (which are most nornally implied) when it leads to this sort of "but it is referenced" behaviour when a particular detail is simply not or more likely is derived from playing the WP:OR game with a booking engine. Andrewgprout (talk) 04:27, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * 1. Please point out where others have objected to the “general” references.


 * 2. Where are the other references if the inline refs are oh so important? You seem to be the only one with an issue. I can see just fine in this particular ref that the route is seasonal.


 * 3. Curious, if your so concerned with proper referencing and making things encycopledic, why didn’t you intervene in the above case between Arnoboro and the IP user? That would’ve been a better use of your time. Randstrand (talk) 04:41, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Other stuff exists - I know - please don't tell me where to put my energies in editing - that is purely up to me. I added a reference that is all I did, you deleted it without checking that the fact it was covering was properly referenced.  That is disruptive editing plain and simple.  I would appreciate if you would put the reference back as per WP:BURDEN requires in this case.  I have challenged the detail - please provide a reference.  Simple again.  Why oh why is it so hard for some to understand.  Andrewgprout (talk) 05:10, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I am calling you out because there are tons of legitimate violations in these airport regarding properly referenced material and things that violate WP:NOTTRAVEL and yet, radio silence from you. I see your edit history and the fact that you revert other users edits more than improving articles is very telling. You are accusing me of deleting a reference without checking that the fact is was covering was properly referenced, and that is false. It is adequately covered in the side citation and if you don't like it, too bad. This is not disruptive. If we are going to play the "challenge" game, I could challenge the entire table as 95% of the destinations are not inline cited to your satisfaction. Leave it alone, and if you continue to harass, I will report to administrators. Randstrand (talk) 15:08, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * WP:GOODREFS is a good start for referencing. You cannot use a primary source (i.e. booking engines) if it requires any interpretation (i.e. A destination is missing from a booking engine for a period of time). Additionally, please read the discussions here and understand that secondary sources are always preferred. I don't understand why users remove them as all this does is bring the already questionable tables closer to a travel guide and encourages original research and WP:FANCRUFT from aviation enthusiasts. There is never a reason to remove references in an encyclopedia unless the detail it's supporting is also removed. Garretka (talk) 10:26, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see how any interpretation is required in this case. The reference to the map literally states DFW-PHX as a route and clicking on it states the route is seasonal as it is not bookable throughout the entire year (if a route is not bookable throughout the entire year, it is seasonal, plain and simple). I have read the discussions and the only people that seem to be objecting are you and Andrewgprount. There is such as thing as WP:OVERCITE, and before you say, "well it needs to be cited in the first place", it is.
 * Where in the general map reference given does it say the route is seasonal? The title of this section is ...seasonal routes....! Andrewgprout (talk) 03:02, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, I find it really amusing that you both are making such a big deal out of this, yet, in the case of the incident above with User:Arnoboro, other than you making a token comment, you both didn't really intervene to help. I see Arnoboro has been cleaning up a lot of information off these pages that violates WP:NOTTRAVEL, WP:OR, WP:FANCRUFT, etc and yet, that user seem to get pushback from aviation enthusiasts. Why not help there? Randstrand (talk) 15:08, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * This is a bit of a ridiculous edit war, but I don't think the side reference map is a proper reference for any of the Sun Country routes. SportingFlyer  T · C  21:05, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Agreed. References should not be deleted plain and simple. You can say that not being bookable is seasonal, but who's to say the service isn't ending? That's interpretation, original research and synthesis. As explained above, please don't suggest where editors ought to focus their attention and assume good faith and keep discussions civil and respectful. I will be reinstating the reference and would encourage you not to carry on an edit war, as in past experiences, the user removing the references is often considered in the wrong. Feel free to add a ref improve tag to the tables, if you want to challenge all destinations. Garretka (talk) 01:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

,, Not sure why Randstrand brought me into this discussion, I generally try to stay away from the Airline and Destination tables when I do my edits, but here is my two cents: remove the tables. I see both sides of the issue here and frankly, it would be better to just remove them as most of it is indeed WP:OR and cannot be properly cited. It is very inconsistent to have inline citations for some and not all, but on the other hand, they are needed due to WP:V. I would gladly remove the tables, but doing so will get me anathematized very quickly.

This said, the tables are just one of many issues airport articles are facing. There is indeed a ton of other information too that violates WP:NOTTRAVEL, WP:NOTEVERYTHING, WP:FANCRUFT, WP:OR, etc (you should have seen all of the information I had to remove at Logan International Airport last week). We need to take a fresh look at the guidelines at WP:AIRPORTS and have a discussion on how to structure airport articles and what information belongs in them, because it is too inconsistent right now. I attempted to start one in the WP:AIRPORTS talk page a few weeks back during the above incident, but only one IP user responded. Arnoboro (talk) 04:12, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The rule for destination tables are future routes or seasonal routes should have inline citations, but a general reference should be okay for regular routes if a timetable can be sourced (unfortunately these are getting rare.) I don't support removing them, they're easily verified and therefore not WP:OR. SportingFlyer  T · C  05:04, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

See Sockpuppet investigations/Groger95. — Berean Hunter   (talk)  00:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Bias
This page reads like a promotion for DFW Airport. In general, the tone doesn't match wikipedia generally, and could use some adjustments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.96.175.157 (talk) 14:04, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

New Route
AA announced new routes to SXM which is listed but also to SVF also as a seasonal service per ThePointsGuy so Becuase I suck with the template editing can someone add SVF. And a new Route to Merida is announced and I believe that was also added. Huskermax5 (talk) 19:40, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

TrAAin
The TrAAin has been out of operation for about a year now.

No, the TrAAin is still in operation (as of February 2005). The TrAAin is operated by American Airlines and just runs between Terminals A and C. You are thinking of the slow moving DFW Train which used to run to all of the terminals. That has been out of service for over a year and will be replaced by the new People Mover system this Spring. Currently the airport is using shuttle buses to transfer people between all of the terminals until the new people mover system is operational. Jfitts 00:09, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Requested move 27 April 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved to Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:39, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport → DFW Airport – WP:COMMONNAME, per ngrams. Otherwise, move to "Dallas Fort Worth International Airport" per WP:COMMONNAME and to avoid the use of a slash. BilledMammal (talk) 21:50, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment noting that I used this page as an example in another move which the nominator has participated in, raising questions around this nomination in line with WP:POINT. Turnagra (talk) 23:22, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:POINT does not apply; I am proposing a move I support, not one that I oppose in order to discredit a policy or guideline. Further, if you wish to cast WP:ASPERSIONS, please do so on my talk page, not in inappropriate locations like this one. BilledMammal (talk) 23:26, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose the abbreviated form as less recognizable and unencyclopedic, but agree that the slash (which not even the airport seems to use) can be removed. ╠╣uw [ talk ] 23:28, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose requested move but support move to Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. Esolo5002 (talk) 23:55, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Move to  per above.  O.N.R.  (talk) 00:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * See also Talk:Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport/Archive 1, a discussion from November 2012 about a proposal to rename this to . —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 00:37, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Move to Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. It's the form that the airport uses on their own website. Rreagan007 (talk) 05:34, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose the abbreviation, it is informal, unencyclopedic, and not uniformly recognizable; besides, do we really want a bunch of articles with unencyclopedic titles like LAX Airport, JFK Airport, and ATL Airport? Regarding the slash, I've wondered for some time whether it's a formal title or a stylization that has fallen into disuse (it appears much more consistently in sources from the 1970s and 1980s than in contemporary ones); that said, I support the "Dallas Fort Worth International" form, as it's used by the airport itself and by numerous other modern sources. Carguychris (talk) 19:36, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose move to DFW Airport but support move to Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. The abbreviation is not universally recognised and not consistent with other airport articles. AusLondonder (talk) 09:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there anywhere else besides Wikipedia that refers to this place as "Dallas Fort Worth"?
It's "Dallas/Fort Worth" or "Dallas-Fort Worth", choose a slash or a dash. Dallas, Texas and Fort Worth, Texas are still two different municipalities. There isn't a "Dallas Fort Worth, Texas" yet, although there may be someone named Dallas F. Worth with an unusual name. At best, this is a redirect. Mandsford 21:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)