Talk:Damar Hamlin/Archive 1

Seriously Wikipedia??? HES NOT DEAD
You put his date of death on here???? HES NOT DEAD! You don’t know anything about this! How dare you. Shame on you. I’m so flipping mad right now, unbelievable. 70.94.110.4 (talk) 02:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is free to edit, including by unregistered users and internet trolls. Those edits made claiming his death were undone in seconds. This is unfortunately the price of having a free, collaborative encyclopedia — sometimes people get it wrong. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 02:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023
Injury needs date needs to be updated to 2023 not 2022 2600:1015:B004:F147:EC33:4391:8196:1934 (talk) 02:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Already done. Mackensen (talk) 02:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ CJ-Moki (talk) 02:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023
The date in the following section should read January 2, 2023:

Monday Night Football collapse On January 2, 2022, during a Week 17 game against the Cincinnati Bengals on Monday Night Football, Hamlin made a tackle on wide receiver Tee Higgins who was charging into him. After the tackle, Hamlin got to his feet and then crumpled to the ground. A stretcher and ambulance came onto the field as most of the rosters on both teams came off the sideline to kneel or stand around Hamlin. First responders administered CPR to Hamlin on the field. He was transported to University of Cincinnati Academic Health Center.[13] 47.222.153.218 (talk) 02:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ CJ-Moki (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

The year is 2023, not 2022z
If you are going to report “facts”, please make sure they are correct. This is a problem with Wikipedia. 73.213.114.122 (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ CJ-Moki (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Someone
Someone Edit what just happened wrong. They put the date as 2022 it’s actually 2023 Tristany87 (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ CJ-Moki (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)
Should be on January 2nd, not in… 2607:FEA8:8424:B300:C077:D791:AB27:FC8C (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Already done. Mackensen (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)
January 2, 2022 should be corrected to January 2, 2023 under the Monday Night Football game 208.98.223.50 (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ CJ-Moki (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (3)
Change date of the recent injury from January 2022 to January 2023, and change reference in article in footnote 13 from 3 January to 2 January. 172.6.53.222 (talk) 02:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 02:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Poor taste
THE FACT YOU PUT ALREADY THAT DAMAR HAMLIN NEEDED CPR ON MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL as a fact about this young man IS FUCKING DISGUSTING … it’s been 52 minutes since that incident and you already got that stat … SHOULD BE FUCKING EMBARRASSED!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:9880:1f48:66:e0ed:8c78:5d96:5495 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * See WP:NOTCENSORED. CJ-Moki (talk) 02:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

He's on oxygen
He's also on oxygen 2600:1009:B12E:95D7:5CD5:AFF:FE20:B926 (talk) 02:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Source? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 02:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/03/bengals-bills-game-suspended-bills-damar-hamlin-critical-condition/ Cyclonicpot (talk) 03:08, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Removed "see also" section
The addition of the "see also" section that references an NBA player who died following a game is too soon. This man is not dead, to our knowledge, and it's simply inappropriate to make that comparison at this time. Re-adding it and complaining that it was "unexplained" ... it needs no explanation. I will continue to remove that section if it is re-added. Duckpasta (talk) 02:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Support - I also agree that it may make sense in the future to add in a "See also" to refer to a player who passed away on the court/field. But right now is not the right time for it. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 02:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * +1 --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 02:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Wholeheartedly agreed. Keeping that in implies something not supported in any reliable sources. Not the time. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 02:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Supporting removal per all the points above. --Harobouri • 🎢  • 🏗️ (he/him)  02:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Support removal for reasons stated above. Planetberaure (talk) 03:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Support, --Malerooster (talk) 03:09, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

As of recent…
As of recent, Hamlin is apparently in critical condition (source: statement from the NFL) and the game has been postponed. Yourfavcarl (talk) 03:18, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @Yourfavcarl The article's text seems to agree. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 03:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we add the details of how long he was down and state the time of the collapse? Yourfavcarl (talk) 03:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

- On the ESPN broadcast, they’ve said that we should have an update soon. Hopefully within the hour. Yourfavcarl (talk) 03:31, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Damar in hospital
Damar has been sent to a Cincinnati hospital after tackling Tee Higgins vs the Bills at 5:58 in the first quarter 2600:1004:B17D:6E5B:698B:D7AC:8EC8:EF12 (talk) 04:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * That information is currently included in the article. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 04:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023
I want to add on to the monday night football collapse Goalieiplay (talk) 04:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)


 * What would you like to add? Mackensen (talk) 04:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Feel free to propose specific changes (with sources if appropriate). --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 04:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2023
No change just what happened. It was confirmed that he had a cardiac arrest. While his heart was restored on the field, he was transported to the University of Cincinati Medical Center. He was listed as in critical condition and continues as such for now. 2603:6011:8C00:21AD:CA9:5A76:EDED:B8DA (talk) 07:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. CJ-Moki (talk) 08:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Cardiac arrest has been addded as the Bills official Twitter account verified this - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 14:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)
This statement doesn't fit unless Lebron James has some ties to Damar Hamlin or the Bills. Numerous people from the NFL community voiced their support.

"Basketball player LeBron James voiced his support for the NFL's decision to postpone the game." 98.27.220.28 (talk) 15:04, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ The Lebron James reaction has subsequently been removed as not particularly relevant.  General Ization Talk  17:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

College career
Hamlin graduated with a bachelor's degree in communication from the University of Pittsburgh. 21:44, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm uninterested in wiki lawyering - that page is the most high-profile and widely accepted documentation of the long-standing community norms when it comes to article splits. Most participants have followed its guidance in the spirit of consensus while others have not. Folks should opt for respecting our best practices for good faith collaboration unless there is a good reason not to. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 22:27, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Any content to merge?
I commented twice at the AfD about not finding anything to merge (Special:Diff/1131449019, Special:Diff/1131663273), but I haven't seen anyone point out specific content. The content customary to a Category:National Football League games article is generally not appropriate for a biography. I am also concerned about the anti-vaxxer reaction (a bit of a WP:COATRACK) and conjecture about commotio cordis added in Special:Diff/1131445751. Flatscan (talk) 05:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I did intend to cover the vaccine misinformation here as people have unfortunately been making fraudulent claims that the vaccine somehow caused the injury, but I wasn't able to find a way to word it properly. We do have reliable sources that are reporting on these hoaxes: AP, BBC, Washington Post, The Atlantic, and more.  I do want to mention that I have alter the wording of the misinformation and the conjecture from what you have linked.  --Super Goku V (talk) 07:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I added a sentence about the anti-vaxxer sentiments, and think that is all that is needed to give it its WP:DUE. Special:Diff/1131697653 - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 09:40, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that there is WP:UNDUE weight and too much "ink" given to the conspiracy/right-wing/activists viewpoint in that split-off article, and one sentence here is all it needs. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 09:41, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, I can shorten it to one sentence if that fixes things. --Super Goku V (talk) 10:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both of you for your edits! Flatscan (talk) 05:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No problem, happy to help. Thank you for the suggestions.  :)  --Super Goku V (talk) 05:50, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Formal request to reconsider the matter
I get that it is a shame that consensus was not followed, but now we have one of the only, if not the only, NFL games that have been cancelled in the regular season. We are way past this being just another game and just another injury. If the problematic article should still be axed, then that is fine, but I am convinced that the current consensus against a standalone article is now more problematic than not. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:18, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Still disagree with separate article, as it can all be covered elsewhwere. The cancellation can be covered in a paragraph in 2022 NFL season. Also, surely this should be being discussed at the AFD, not here? Joseph2302 (talk) 08:31, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Improving Personal Life section
I'd like to see the Personal Life section improved as Hamlin had a difficult upbringing and a strong family life. I don't have the needed edit level, but this article from 2021 goes deep in depth on Hamlin's story and general character. https://www.golongtd.com/p/why-damar-hamlin-is-exactly-what Awhalen0601 (talk) 01:32, 4 January 2023 (UTC)


 * very valuable article: thank you for putting it here !! Ayyydoc (talk) 01:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * i added some of the information, but an editor let me know in my talk page that it may violate some of the guidelines laid out in the "biography of living peoples" section of wikipedia. i should've solicited consensus in this page. thank you nevertheless !! Ayyydoc (talk) 04:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, I should clarify that my concerns were with the wording used, specifically involving Hamlin's father. Some of the stuff might be okay for the article, if you want to propose adding it here.  --Super Goku V (talk) 22:56, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 * ESPN just published another excellent article on Damar's personal life and I believe the article would benefit from its inclusion https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35385319/damar-hamlin-injury-most-important-part-bills-safety-story Awhalen0601 (talk) 16:05, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Please stop adding Main or Seealso template here
Please stop adding the template (or See also) to this page, for a number of reasons:
 * Acting against consensus. That article (2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin) was created against a clear consensus on this Talk page, showing no consideration for good faith collaboration, and going against best practices described at WP:SPLITTING. Further spreading of this article given the points below is akin to doubling down on bad decisions.
 * AfD listing. Even after being told of this, and with the article being listed at WP:AFD where it is seeing little support, certain editors keep pushing for its exposure on this page, on templates, and other pages around Wikipedia. It is poor practice to link to articles at AfD, especially ones that are clearly trending towards being deleted/merged. Which gets us to the next point.
 * Bad title. As has been pointed out at the AfD, the title of the article 2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin is quite deficient by our naming conventions for titles (see WP:NCEVENTS, WP:NOYEAR, WP:COMMONNAME). We would never include the year on a one-off unique occurrence to an individual. The only other articles in Wikipedia related to events that use "collapse" relate to civic engineering, politics, economics, science, et al. (See: Collapse of the World Trade Center, State collapse, Economic collapse, Wave function collapse) We do not commonly (or at all) use "collapse" in an article name to describe what happens to a human being. For these reasons, it's a substandard title to be spreading across Wikipedia, as editors have been trying to insert this into templates that hit hundreds of pages. However, because the article is at AfD, for the one week period it is listed it is essentially in a frozen state. Since we are stuck with the title as it is, we should not be spreading it around Wikipedia.

TL;DR - Please stop adding the Main or See also section link to an article created against consensus, has a poor title, and is likely to be deleted or merged. Thanks. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 14:16, 6 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Could an invisible comment be helpful and added to help remind those who attempt to re-add those templates? Harobouri • 🎢  • 🏗️ (he/him)  17:52, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That probably wouldn't work as these people have consistently been told to stop adding the templates, And yet its still an issue. Cyclonicpot (talk) 19:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The invisible comments could refer them to this specific talk page discussion and mention not to add it during the AfD. If it does continue, then they are disruptive editing. Harobouri • 🎢  • 🏗️ (he/him)  22:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The following: Please do not add "Main" or "Seealso" templates directing to "2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin" to the top of this section until the AfD process is complete for that article. Consistently re-adding these templates is acting against consensus and will be considered as disruptive editing. Read the talk page of this article for more information. is what I am proposing as the invisible comment. Thoughts? Harobouri • 🎢  • 🏗️ (he/him)  22:53, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I support that idea. Thanks. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 03:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I support this Cyclonicpot (talk) 07:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Outcome of Articles for deletion/2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin
FYI, the outcome of Articles for deletion/2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin was redirect. - Fuzheado &#124; Talk 13:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox career stats
Shouldn't the career statistics portion of the infobox read "Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2022", rather than 18, since he did not play in Week 18? And I'm not sure if the NFL counted the statistics from the Week 17 game, so it should also potentially instead say Week 16? PizzaKing13  ¡Hablame!  00:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Damarhamlin.jpg

Add section on activism work
Hamlin visited D.C. this week, supported bill expanding access to AEDs for school districts, photographed with Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden￼ Roboat06 (talk) 18:01, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Spilling ink on COVID Vaccine
This line:

>Shortly after the incident, there was an increase in rhetoric and disinformation from well-known anti-vaxxers including Charlie Kirk and Drew Pinsky making unfounded claims about Hamlin's cardiac arrest and COVID-19 vaccines.

I feel like we shouldn't be giving the time of day to this unfounded nonsense, and I don't really see the merit of including this in the article. Any thoughts on its removal? Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 16:16, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Prayer on the Field from the entire team
Anybody who remembers this is going to remember the picture, and fact, that the entire team was kneeling and praying on live television. This should be in the article. Easeltine (talk) 17:26, 7 December 2023 (UTC)