Talk:Dan Clark (motivational speaker)

Possible deletion
I am not the author of this article but added the hang on template. It looks like the subject has received significant independent coverage from reliable sources. Additional sources need to be provided, clean up needs to be done on peacocky writing, and minor style corrections. Cptnono (talk) 23:54, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Clean up

 * Removing all of Musical career. At most, this deserves a line in some sort of personal life section since it appears this is a hobby. Here is the line from the source "Clark flies to Nashville every few weeks to spend a couple of days writing songs with some of country music's best songwriters. Did we mention he has a gold record? One of his pet phrases — "Drink, Swear, Steal and Lie" — inspired Michael Peterson to write a hit country song." Cptnono (talk) 00:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Section headings:
 * Removed "Football Career" since it was not a career. It is now "Youth and sports" but that may not be the best
 * Fixed section heading capitalization.Cptnono (talk) 00:03, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Removed the Internet Movie Database reference since it does not meet RS (from my experience feel free to revert if I am wrong). Cptnono (talk)
 * The image caption for the airplane is silly. It needs to be adjusted.Cptnono (talk) 00:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Removed unverifiable refs. I can't tell what they were referring to for sure but it looks like they were citing a speaking event or maybe his website. If website, removing due to unduly self serving. See edit history for content that should be restored when sourced Cptnono (talk) 00:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply
I am the author of this article. I am new and this is my first article. I wrote it in good faith because of a Wikipedia article that referred to the wrong Dan Clark. If the writing is too flamboyant or silly I would hope another friendly Wikipedian would edit it. Please be respectful if I am not responding to the discussion in the correct form.Mabsal (talk) 00:26, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Ctpnono misrepresented what was originally written about Clark's musical career. I agree that it sounds like his own music is published on a vanity press, but the Deseret News article states he helped write that one song, and shares a gold album.
 * I am unaware of what "RS" means. I would like other user's feedback on the reliability of Internet Movie Database. I don;t know where to go for information about old movies.
 * I am unsure that my amateur mistakes warrant a deletion of the entire article.
 * I don't know if you noticed but I am trying to keep this article from being deleted. According to the Criteria for speedy deletion it could be deleted immediately since it appears to be blatant advertising.
 * The primary concerns come from the article not having significant WP:RS (reliable sources). You need a source that says he "he helped write that one song" which Deseret does not (from the quote I found, let me know if there is another). Your amateur mistakes are enough to have the article if they are not correct since notability needs to be established and verifiable.Cptnono (talk) 00:32, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * IMDB: This has been discussed many many times. It appears that the general consensus is that information from there can be reliable so long as it isn't in the 'user-generate' and non-vetted sections. I don't know if the removed content comes from there or not (you'll have to double check). You can see discussions on it here and Wikipedia talk:Citing IMDb. Cptnono (talk) 00:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Follow-upx3: It looks like the speedy delete template has been removed. The article still needs clean up and could be deleted after a longer discussion if nominated so I recommend checking out Your first article.Cptnono (talk) 00:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I think I have fixed the voice issues. Most of this has been fixed by whoever took out the references to Dan Clark's personal page (thanks!). I think the article is much better. If there is anything left to be done that I should do, please suggest. Thank you for your help, Cptnono, for the info about the IMDB discussion, etc. I am still unsure about the directing issue. In some article about directing using Jupiter as an example, every search for Jupiter directs to the planet and every thing else was directed under it like it is on the Dan Clark (actor) page. Is this the correct format? Mabsal (talk) 06:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I see that Cptnono suggests the article use more sources. I only have three main ones, and I rely heavily on two. I cannot find anymore. Are these three sufficient to keep the article up in order to distinguish the author of the Chicken Soup books from the other two Dan Clarks on Wikipedia? Mabsal (talk) 06:12, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

This should be placed on user talk pages, and there isn't any question?--  fetch  comms  ☛ 23:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I asked a question about Google searches at the Help Desk that irritated some Wikipedia members yesterday. They told me not to edit this article any more. I did want someone to help me make the article not sound like an "advertisement" anymore. However, please take down this help tag if that is the right thing to do and I will let everyone else decide what should be done with this article.146.86.72.228 (talk) 23:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)


 * You are not prohibited from editing the article. If you do edit, be cautious since there is a small margin of error allotted in conflict of interest cases when it comes to potential advertising and neutrality concerns. Taking a step back from introducing content to the actual article might be a good idea. That being said, you should for sure introduce information on this talk page for consideration if you are interested.
 * In regards to your questions/comments:
 * IMDB: I found this but the line said it won 20 awards.
 * Removing the lines sourced from the website was a hatchet job on my part but I felt it was a quick way to fix the tone. If this information is available in the Deseret piece or other sources it should be reworked and included.
 * Sources (the most important part)- I pokes around in the google news archives and saw some news coverage. I recommend using key words such as a title of a book+review. I believe the subject meets the notability guidelines but more sources would cement that. It would also help expand the article. Cptnono (talk) 00:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Other: What is the context of the image with the fighter jet?
 * Disambiguation: There are more than three subjects and although the actor appears more famous, I don't know if he is the primary topic. Contributing to a NY Times best seller is a big deal, as well. I am considering making the change.
 * You have grasped some of the concepts of Wikipeida well for a first time. I'm sure it feels like you are getting creamed but this is much better than many first time attempts (including my own) I have seen. Cptnono (talk) 00:05, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm hesitant to touch this article any more in light of what so many people assume about this article. I would like it to be a good article. I've never done Google news before, but if I find articles I will post links on this discussion page.
 * The 20 awards for the movie -- I forgot where that came from. It might have been his personal page which I know is a no-no now. In any case, I think only mentioning that a movie was made is sufficient. If an article ever gets written about the movie I think it should be discussed there.
 * Clark seems to do a lot of speaking for military circles, especially after 9/11. I actually contacted Clark for pictures. The ones on his site are pretty cheesy (like the main one, actually), but they are better than the one that all the sites that seem to hire him out for speaking use. I was going to try to make a case to use that picture for copyright issues, since it is used on so many sites and the quality was low. However, Clark got back to me and gave me a bunch of pictures. The jet fighter one was among them. I thought it helped illustrate the military involvement he has going. But it is a small article and one picture should be plenty, if it seems inappropriate. And, as you say, he seems most notable for his contribution to Chicken Soup for the Soul books anyway.
 * I was criticized uploading those 2 pictures to the Wikipedia Commons and for starting the article. I don't quite understand. There's a whole section of help pages for contacting people for pictures and getting them to clearly state what kind of license they would like their pictures to be used under.
 * I don't really care which Dan Clark is first. I just wanted to be sure that I did it right.
 * Thanks for keeping up with the talk page. I will be gone for the next 9 days.Mabsal (talk) 09:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the images you provided. I think it is a shame that you were given a hard time. I assume it was a knee-jerk reaction to what appeared to be a conflict of interest. Don't worry about it. I also thought the caption was silly originally and not the image itsself.Cptnono (talk) 14:00, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I want to move all/most of this to my user talk page, as Fetchcomms suggests above. How do I do that?Mabsal (talk) 23:40, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I would not recommend doing so (by moving it to your userspace, not talk page), as there is significant history to the page. What you can do is type in your user subpage (such as User:Mabsal/Dan Clark (motivational speaker)), improving the article without actually removing it from public view, then replacing the article with your improved version (by similar means). This is known as a copy-edit.  Intelligent  sium  23:46, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I follow. It sounds like it is better to leave this here. As you might be able to gleam, I'm not popular here at Wikipedia and I wpuld rather just post some links to some information I found rather than put this article into more jeopardy. Mabsal (talk) 23:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Music Career
The entry that he "co-authored" "Drink, Swear, Steal & Lie" seems to be incorrect. According to the Deseret News (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635187899/Motivators-walk-same-as-his-talk.html), the song title was a pet phrase of Clark's and inspired Peterson to write the song. The ASCAP site recognizes only Peterson and and Paula Carpenter as the song's sole writers (https://www.ascap.com/ace/#ace/performer/MICHAEL%20PETERSON). Clark's website shows a gold record given to him "to commemorate" the song, without details. Unless other information surfaces, is providing a title for someone else's gold record worth noting? Bpeschel (talk) 15:12, 12 August 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpeschel (talk • contribs) 23:49, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Links for additional sources
I have found these links for inclusion in this article and would like to see the information added to help the credibility of this article. I could never get the book review searches in Google News that Cptnono describes to return anything useful.
 * http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091104/LIFE/711039969/1239
 * Has information about Clark's marketing strategy for One Minute Messages and about his songwriting.


 * http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=I_0OAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WoMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5426,8934037&dq=dan+clark&hl=en
 * An old news article about Clark speaking at high schools. Hope the link works.


 * http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=17305
 * About Clark’s visit on the USS Harry S. Truman.


 * http://www.cutimes.com/News/2007/12/Pages/Chicken-Soup-for-the-Soul-Author-Keynotes-NACUSO-Conference.aspx\
 * Very short article about a conference in 2007.


 * http://www.cutimes.com/Issues/2008/January%209,%202008/Pages/NACUSO-Welcomes-Chicken-Soup-for-the-Soul-Author-for-2008-Conference.aspx
 * Clark returned to the conference in 2008.


 * http://mormontimes.com/arts_entertainment/music/?id=9171
 * Info about his daughter. If she has a page, they can be linked. No information about him. It is also maybe a biased source (seems religious).


 * http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=NewsLibrary&p_multi=DSNB&d_place=DSNB&p_theme=newslibrary2&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0F36048D4CAEB487&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM
 * This is not the full article, but the Deseret News site might go back that far for free. Info on the drug free campaign.


 * http://www.thekathleenshow.com/Guest/tabid/55/xmmid/388/xmid/1709/xmview/2/Default.aspx
 * Some feminist talkshow website. Supposedly has an interview available with Dan Clark. Cites the info about him co-writing the country song on the page, so maybe they talk about it.

Mabsal (talk) 23:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)