Talk:Dan yr Ogof

Eileen Davies / Peter Odgen
There seems to be some dispute about who first passed the "Long Crawl". I found two apparently reliable web refs that say it was Davies, but the text seems to cite the book by Martyn Farr saying that it was Ogden. I don't have access to this book (and insufficient interest to order it through the library system), so I've left it worded ambiguously. Hopefully someone with more interest will eventually come along and sort it out. —S MALL JIM   14:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

>and insufficient interest to order it through the library system) Try most caving club libraries, In so much Peter passed the long crawl first. SWCC records will support this lets not keep saying it was Davies and make an error a fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.71.63.55 (talk) 14:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * You may be right, I don't know. What I do know, though, is that Wikipedia articles must be based on reliable sources and contain verifiable facts. At present there are at least two online sources that appear to be reliable and say it was Davies. On the other hand a Google search for ["Peter Ogden" "Dan yr Ogof"] turns up nothing that's not based on this article. Now it's quite possible that there are reliable paper resources that dispute, or even comprehensively demolish, the Davies claims. If that's the case then it would be OK to say something like "Despite claims that Davies was the first,[online ref1][online ref2] these claims were disputed (or "were shown to be false" etc.) by in his book.[book ref1]". When there is a significant dispute about facts, Wikipedia's job is to report impartially on the dispute - it does not "take sides". See WP:NPOV. Hope this helps, —S MALL  JIM   15:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the claim that wikipedia is factual is hard to take as it is full of non facts made true by the repetition of them. Far from fact based (In fact) you have your self embedded that within the DYO article.I have seen the logs and know the truth, although lacking time to do much about it. The sadness of Wikipedia is that people now lack the ability to do true research and base facts!! on it. I for one still like to go back to my research days and look at true reference sources and from multiple sources this gives balance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.130.103 (talk) 22:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

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