Talk:Dana Simpson/Archive 1

Untitled
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow I'm not sure exactly how D. C. Simpson would describe his relationship with David Brodbeck. Perhaps boyfriend, perhaps partner, perhaps lover? --Dfeuer 08:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Update
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow This page needs one. I propose we amend the comment on Idrewthis being updated twice weekly to 'occasionally updated'. Also, I feel the twist that Idrewthis has taken towards being a blogsite rather than a comic site needs to be recognised, perhaps in a 'political commentary work' section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 13djb13 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Why the move back?
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow Cyberskull, I believe I moved this page in accordance with the Wikipedia policies on naming pages and moving pages. Could you please explain why you moved it back? --Dfeuer 16:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't see anything cited on the move as to why it was moved to a more ambiguous name. Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 01:36, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Moving this page
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow I am moving David Craig Simpson to D. C. Simpson because, as I understand it it, the artist is most commonly known by that name. After that, he is most commonly called David Simpson. The page was called David Simpson before it was changed to avoid ambiguity. I have rarely seen his name written in full, so I believe the abbreviated form, which he himself prefers, is more appropriate.

See for example


 * Comixpedia interview with D. C. Simpson

and note
 * Statement by D. C. Simpson regarding his preferred name.

as well as the copyright notices and signatures on
 * Simpson's autobiographical blurb
 * Ozy and Millie site
 * I Drew This site

I therefore believe the move is appropriate according to Wikipedia Guidelines Naming conventions (people) and Naming conventions (common names), and the help page Help:Renaming (moving) a page.

--Dfeuer 19:07, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Should the MusicBrainz link be changed in some fashion to read D. C. Simpson rather than David Craig Simpson? I would do it myself, but I'm not sure how. Dfeuer 17:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No, not at this time. If the actual MusicBrainz entry changes from David Craig Simpson to D.C. Simpson, then we can change it. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 18:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * All official sources - the comic strip pages, Amazon.com, etc. refer to D.C. Simpson as 'Dana Simpson', thus I moved the page to reflect this. I also merged the section on her music, being that she is primarily known as a cartoonist. (Sugar Bear (talk) 19:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC))

"D.C." versus "Simpson"?
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow There's a mild question about whether to call this artist "D.C." or "Simpson". I had written new material using "D.C." as the artist's name; it was changed so that all references became "Simpson". Does anyone know which name D. C. Simpson prefers? Chip Unicorn 17:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Simpson was unsure over using their current name on the page for reasons that I assume you also know about. I'll contact them again about it to ask. --Barberio 20:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC) (ps. I'm Lamar)


 * Hihi, Lamar. Thanks for asking D. C. Simpson which name to use.  Chip Unicorn 17:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ? He's unsure if he's a he now? 80.43.6.101 22:42, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah. I see. Good on ... her? 80.43.6.101 23:10, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed the references to "Simpson" because that seemed far more appropriate in an encyclopedia article than the author's first and middle initials. Of course, if it should become possible to use a pronoun again, that would be great.  Perhaps someone could ask DCS about that? Dfeuer 09:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * We could always try "Rain". :-) GreenReaper 19:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * With or without an -e? *giggle*  Chip Unicorn 00:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Gender
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow After seeing a new paragraph making the situation clear - and hence making the change "official for Wikipedia" - I've just rearranged the article to remove some of the painful constructions necessary to avoid choosing a gender. In doing so, I've moved the explanation to the front of the article. People may argue that it does not belong there, as it suggests that a person's non-standard sexual identity is the most interesting thing about them, and in principle they're right. However, in cases like this that necessitate the switching of pronouns, I feel it's far less confusing for people who aren't aware of the situation. If I were an Ozy & Millie reader who wasn't aware that David was now Dana I would probably assume I had found the wrong article or that it was seriously in error. PeteVerdon 19:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Just FYI: Dana's name change came around 2004. My copy of Ozy and Millie V: OM has "David Craig Simpson" on the front cover, and her editorial is signed David Craig Simpson, and dated October 2003.  Chip Unicorn 05:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Has the name David Craig Simpson plastered all over it. It was last updated sometime during or after 2005, judging by the copyright date. Are we sure this journal entry wasn't dated April 1st? ~ Oni Lukos ct 00:18, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sadly, Dana has made all of her entries on her LiveJournal "friends-only". The original post is no longer available, and none of the Internet references that I found were unambiguous.  You're right; there's now more evidence on the Internet that DC Simpson stands for "David Craig" than "Dana Claire".  Feh.  Chip Unicorn 16:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm back to David Craig and "he," now. (Though "Rain" is acceptable, and covers all bases; I've been using that online handle for like ten years now). Let's leave it there. D.C. Simpson (comment was made 03:48, 11 November 2006)
 * It would be good to get some kind of reliable verification that User:Dcsimpson is actually D.C. Simpson. --Dfeuer 00:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In a private message to me before the change to the entry, D.C. Simpson confirmed that he was no longer going by "Dana Claire", and he said that he was going to change his Wikipedia entry. Chip Unicorn 22:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Publicly available evidence: A message posted under his established user name on I Read This. --Dfeuer 00:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The correct URL for the aforementioned I Read This post is now http://www.ireadthis.org/index.php?topic=1982.msg42535#msg42535, that site is in the process of a server move, and while both URLs currently work, the lupinia.us one will not be functional once the site has moved to the new location. --Felix J. Lockhart, not a user here  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.240.250 (talk) 05:35, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It looks like he's a 'she' again. In this strip, "Madam President" clearly refers to Simpson. And just to remove any doubt, in this post not too long before that, it's clear that Simpson is identifying as a female in the final paragraph ("Speaking as a genuinely gender-confused Democrat who nevertheless feels she has the same right..."). - furrykef (Talk at me) 08:55, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to follow up on this, D.C.'s deviantART page identifies him/her as female, as well as a self portrait titled "Dana S."  Λύκος  00:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm an occasional wiki editor and I only tend to step in when I see something that seems drastically wrong to me, so correct me if there's some official wiki policy that I don't know about. Shouldn't we refer to Dana/David by gender depending on the time period we're referring to? This is the general policy for people who change their identity throughout their life - I'm thinking of peoeple with titles in front of their name, e.g. In 1998 First-Lady Hillary Clinton was involved in health-care policy, and in 2006 Senator Hillary Clinton again became involved in health-care policy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 13djb13 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This is a somewhat more touchy subject than that of an official title the applicability of which is specified by law, because there is no clearly "correct" time at which to change between pronouns, and the very unambiguity is a source of identity problems in those affected. I do not think just using a pronoun that reflects the physical state of the subject's genitals at the time would do the situation any justice, though it may be the only truly unambigous criterion in this case, but it would not even be possible in cases of unambigous gender of genitals at the time of birth, which is rare but not unheard of. Anyway, the whole situation hinges on the fact that a person does not feel "correctly defined by" or "comfortable with" the gender observable in their primary sexual characteristics. Kiwaiti (talk) 09:53, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, a majority of people determine gender by physical or official properties, and not by someone else's choice. I believe the question is not "What gender does D.C. Simpson think he is?" but rather "What gender is D.C. Simpson physically and/or legally?" If D.C. Simpson has male sexual organs and not female ones then he should be described with male pronouns. This could be reconsidered when a sex change is performed by any means or he legally changes his name and gender. (And besides, it means fewer edits and less work because who knows how often he'll change his mind about who he is?)
 * How an individual chooses to refer to a person, of course, is a completely different story. Zaximus (talk) 17:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Pronouns a matter of language, not a matter of fact. D. C. Simpson is alive, and therefore her wishes with regard to such matters need to be respected.  If you want to start a debate on Wikipedia pronoun policy, I'm sure there's a policy page where you could do that. Dfeuer (talk) 16:12, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Dana Claire Simpson is stating in the Raine Dog FAQ that she is no longer a male, legally or physically. – Wdfarmer (talk) 09:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

One way or another, the article as it now stands doesn't refer to the change in the very least. Wouldn't starting it off with at least Dana Claire Simpson (born David Craig, April 23, 1977  be prudent? - 83.13.234.242 (talk) 22:35, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm not really familiar with this person, but referring to them as 'it' seems pretty offensive to me. This sentence in particular is pretty bad: "Simpson lives in Auburn, Washington with its "husband" David Brodbeck." I don't know if that's me being overly sensitive (I'm trans, so..) or if using 'it' is site policy, though. Ditto on the quotations around husband. So... can someone more well-versed in this site change that if it's needed? Oh yeah, the 'actually david craig' bit seems a little offensive too, but again I don't know if I'm being oversensitive there. 174.24.102.160 (talk) 06:07, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any evidence that the gender of the subject (physical, legal, or otherwise) is in any way relevant to their notability. As this debate seems to be getting in the way of improving the article, I have rewritten it to avoid referring to gender. GreenReaper (talk) 04:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It's much better now! Thanks very much :] 174.24.102.160 (talk) 03:50, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Scratch space for expanding this biography
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow

http://comixpedia.com/node/1909

http://www.ozyandmillie.org/creator/interview-1999.jpg

http://www.ozyandmillie.org/words11.html

http://www.ozyandmillie.org/words02.html

http://www.ozyandmillie.org/words24.html

No mention of 2002 Web Cartoonist's Choice Awards

Musical activities only referenced by a url.

--Barberio 21:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Pages 21-26 of Attitude 3: The New Subversive Online Cartoonists edited by Ted Rall (ISBN 1-56163-465-4) RJFJR 20:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Balance
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow I think the textual balance between webcomics and music does not match the true balance. Simpson is not known for her music, and none of her songs are WP notable. Dfeuer (talk) 04:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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External links modified
User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Dana Simpson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/03/28/4452477_artist-dana-simpson-gets-magic.html?rh=1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090404200617/http://www.rainedog.com:80/d/20090116.html to http://www.rainedog.com/d/20090116.html

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Full birth name should not be included in the article
I went ahead and removed it. She does not appear to be very notable under her former name. I clicked on all the sources and none of them mention her birth name except an old interview with a local paper.

WP:BLP says Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. and When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed...it is often preferable to omit it

WikiProject's LGBT Guidelines advise that Wikipedia articles should respect the basic human dignity of their subjects. Wikipedia aims to be a reputable encyclopedia, not a tabloid...it is not acceptable to use Wikipedia as a venue for outing people. In addition, the precedent set at Laverne Cox's article is that Wikipedia should not broadcast a trans person's former name if it is not already well known.

Also, Dana Simpson has said that she would prefer it if Wikipedia wouldn't deadname her. Wandering Wanda (they/them) (t/c) 04:35, 31 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Dana was notable before transitioning due to Ozy and Millie. But I agree with using "D.C." rather than given name for this period, even though finding her original name is not that hard; latter years of O&M were mostly signed as D.C. Simpson. --M asem (t) 04:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Alright, that seems fair. Wandering Wanda (they/them) (t/c) 05:11, 31 March 2019 (UTC)