Talk:Dancing with the Stars (American TV series) season 15

Title capitalization
The word "stars" in the title, should be capitalized so that it matches with the other DWTS pages. It should look like "Dancing with the Stars (U.S. season 15)". 75.85.72.189 (talk) 04:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done --MSalmon (talk) 10:15, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Lacey Schwimmer?
For Apolo's partner in the top section it says Lacey Schwimmer. But in the scoring table it says Apolo & Karina. Which one is correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.23.58.103 (talk) 14:12, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's Karina --MSalmon (talk) 14:22, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Capitalization and using Twitter as a source
The first letters of the dances have always been capitalized on the dance charts of previous seasons, regardless of how many words are in the dance title (be it one like Waltz, two like Paso Doble or three like Cha-Cha-Cha). Even the Wiki pages of similar shows like Strictly Come Dancing follow this. By capitalizing the first letters of all dances, there is both consistency and cleanliness to the charts. It is aesthetically pleasing to see uniformity. Either the dances have their first letters capitalized, or they remain in lowercase - and the former is far more satisfactory.

Also, all of the celebrities and all of the pro dancers have verified Twitter accounts, and these accounts have been a major source with regard to dances, performance order, etc. They are reliable. When a pro says they'll be dancing in fifth position, for example, it always turns out to be true. So I see no reason why these accounts should not be considered viable sources. In my mind, they're the most accurate sources out there for this show, as the information comes directly from those intimately involved with the show and its production.

I make these statements because this page has been unreasonably edited of late, and I find that the edits that have been made are unnecessary. The dances should be capitalized irregardless of how many words they contain - it's always been this way, and I see no reason why things should change now. As well, the Twitter accounts of the participating celebrities and pro dancers are completely reliable, and thus any information that uses them as a source should not be deleted. --WIlted Youth


 * Well, you beat me to it. I was going to bring up this issue, but I was on the road the last day or so.
 * Wikipedia MOS (not to mention correct grammar) takes precedence over personal preference (what your opinion is on what looks better) and what other articles have done. I started working on fixing the previous season articles of DwtS, but there was so much work to do that I gave up. I don't have that kind of time right now to devote to that, but it does need to be done and I'll try to do it when I can. But the important thing is making sure that the current one is correct regardless of how the others are. Now the specifics:


 * Capitalization: See MOS:CAPS and WP:Manual_of_Style/Tables. Just as with headings, in each field of a table, only the first letter of the first word is be capitalized -- unless there's a proper noun. The vast majority of articles do it this way. Any that don't are wrong. Cha-cha-cha is a hyphenated word, which makes it one word. We don't put capitals in the middle of words. As far as the dance names that are two words, you have go to the article (or other encyclopedia) for the word to see if the second word should be capitalized or not. And dances are not proper nouns, so they are not to be capitalized -- unless at the beginning of a sentence or they contain proper nouns.


 * Reliable sources: See WP:SOCIALMEDIA. Wikipedia considers social media sites, like Twitter, to be unreliable, and any thing having to do with future events that isn't sourced or has unreliable source must be removed -- no exceptions.
 * --Musdan77 (talk) 19:33, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Why did you remove the performance order when the sources comes from the verified Twitter accounts? --MSalmon (talk) 19:41, 24 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Read what I wrote above! And read the link(s). This is not me. This is what WP says. --Musdan77 (talk) 19:53, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I did read it and it doesn't make sense, first your saying that using Twitter is fine and should not be removed then you say it should be used and should be removed. Make up your mind. --MSalmon (talk) 19:55, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about?? As I said, Twitter, is not reliable and can't be used and must be removed. Plain and simple. --Musdan77 (talk) 20:16, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Now, I think I know what the confusion is: The user who started this section didn't sign (and I don't know why the bot didn't do it). I have manually added it. --Musdan77 (talk) 20:41, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't realise it was two separate users --MSalmon (talk) 21:03, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Names of dances are not proper nouns and should not be capitalised unless at the beginning of a sentence. Simple grammar and also Wikipedia policy.--Charles (talk) 23:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I won't contest the grammatical technicalities, even though they have not been enforced until this time. I'm not sure why it took so long for someone to make a big deal of it, but thank you to the dedicated users who have the time on their hands to care so much. But regarding Twitter, I really cannot understand why Wikipedia policy disregards it IF Twitter has taken the extra step to VERIFY the accounts of famous people. Why else would that blue checkmark exist if not to prove to those with doubts that the account really does belong to the person they say they are? In my view, any account without the checkmark can be removed as a source, BUT if they have the checkmark they should be considered a valid source. Why not? What's the difference between sourcing a verified Twitter account and sourcing a website that culls its information from Twitter anyway? They're one and the same thing to me. In my view this policy disregarding all Twitter information is outdated, and the blue checkmarks that Twitter issues out should be considered - after all, Twitter doesn't verify accounts for nothing. If whoever faithfully edits the page wishes to remove information sourced from Twitter, that's fine, but know that the apparently more credible gossip websites get their information from Twitter anyway, so really the edits are not necessary in the longrun. --WIlted Youth (talk) 23:03, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

the half points
On the chart with the songs and judges indivudals scores the half points in there look a little messy. It is kind of hard to read. Is there a way to make that easier to read? i have an example of what i am talking about below.

22 (8,6.5,7.5) It looks kind of like 22 ( 8,6,5,7,5) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.109.218.111 (talk) 23:25, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * THe only way is to separate the judges scores individually but then it won't be consistent with the other seasons --MSalmon (talk) 08:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe add the whole numbers with a .0 for example 22.0 (8,6.5,7.5) have it 22.0 (8.0,6.5,7.5) so that way it would be consistant with the half points. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.109.218.111 (talk) 19:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Scoring Tables
I posted this in July on the talk page of the main series article. No one responded, so I figured I would post it on a more active page.

"A few months ago, the "Dancing" articles were completely changed into inconsistent and confusing formats. Since then, they have mostly been reverted. However, there has been something in the season articles that has always been a problem: the scoring summary tables. The format is used in the "Dancing" articles for all countries, but it appears to be a very random formatting job, created on a whim. Now during the undiscussed overhaul previously mentioned, the season 11 table was changed into an aesthetically pleasing format that was very easily readable. It lacked some items, which I have now added. I played around with this format and would like to present a proposal table to be used in all of the season articles for "Dancing with the Stars" (even international ones).

Key:
 * Judges' highest score in each round
 * Judges' lowest score in each round
 * This couple was eliminated
 * This couple was the last to be called safe (they may or may have not been in the bottom two)
 * This couple received first place.
 * This couple received second place.
 * This couple received third place.


 * Week Four: The judges provided two scores: one for technique, the other for performance.
 * Week Six: After each couples' individual dance, all seven couples competed in a group dance marathon. The judges eliminated teams one-by-one. The first team eliminated received four points, the next team eliminated received five points, and so on, with ten points awarded to the winner of the group dance.
 * Week Seven: The remaining couples were split into two teams. The first team consisted of Rick & Cheryl, Bristol & Mark, and Kyle & Lacey, who were lead by season six champion Kristi Yamaguchi. The second team, lead by season four champion Apolo Anton Ohno consisted of Kurt & Anna, Brandy & Maks, and Jennifer & Derek. Both groups performed a team cha-cha-cha for their first dance. Each couple then individually performed a dance for which they received a second score. Also, guest judge Emmitt Smith, Gilles Marini, Kelly Osbourne, Drew Lachey, Helio Castroneves and Mel B all provided a fourth score for the individual dances.
 * Week Eight: Having already known which specific dance they were assigned, each couple was only provided the musical selection for their second dance after performing their first dance, reducing the rehearsal time available to choreograph to only 30 minutes.
 * Week Nine: Each team performed two dances, one Latin and one Ballroom. In their Latin dance, the celebrity was required to perform a solo.
 * Week Ten: In the final week, the three remaining couples performed four dances each over two nights.

Now, the background colors are consistent with the dance style tables found later in the articles. The results of each week of competition are presented in a thin column after the scoring. In this case, I chose the light green color currently used to indicate "last to be called safe" and changed the orange "elimination color" to a crimson. In a season where a bottom two/three was announced, the blues currently used would be perfectly fine, in my opinion. The whole table should fit perfectly in an internet window, and I think it is very easy to understand. It looks well-organized, as opposed to what is currently there. Each round is now sortable, allowing the reader to see how the couples ranked per dance. Lastly, the header column has been formatted in a way that allows each cell in the scoring part of the table to be of an almost completely equal size, which definitely enhances the quality of the table.

Please let me know what you think! Leave any suggestions, color changes, etc. I hope that we can soon get around to changing all of the tables and improving these articles. Thanks!" TDI19 (talk) 00:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - I have always found it confusing as well - your table above is so much easier and cleaner to read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.131.125 (talk) 03:45, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Dancer interviews
I spent a great deal of time sourcing the Week 2 dances using post-elimination interviews that are recorded the night of the results show. Someone please explain to me why these interviews cannot be used as sources? The dancers are VERBALLY confirming their dances IN THE FLESH. How on earth is that not reliable? Why was my painstaking work removed when taped video interviews confirmed the dances? I'm sorry, but I see no reasonable explanation for this action. Video interviews are certainly legitimate sources of information, and if Twitter apparently can't be, then how in the world can we source the dance chart? People are curious to know the upcoming dances and who dances them, and almost always they turn to Wikipedia. We cannot be playing these ridiculous cat-and-mouse games at the expense of inquisitive fans and viewers. Therefore I vehemently protest the action of whomever removed my information. It was completely uncalled for. I take time and effort to keep the page up to date, and I resent those who pettily reduce those efforts to nothing. Again, interviews are more than reliable sources, and I openly call on anyone to prove me wrong. --WIlted Youth (talk) 04:28 27 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It's confusing to new editors, but Wikipedia strongly prefers secondary sources to primary ones. That's discussed here. It's unfortunate that you spent a lot of time without seeing any visible results, but the rules have been designed to provide a good reader experience, and to enable editors to work reasonably well with each other. Primary sources don't support either of those.


 * Also, if the article had a footnote for each of the half-dozen interviews per week (on average, over the season), and 12 weeks of interviews, that would be 72 links in the "References" section, which would totally overwhelm all the other footnotes.


 * In short: It's good enough, in Wikipedia, for anyone who wants to be able to see the interviews to be able to find them a click or two away (following the link to a news article, which then links to archived show footage). -- John Broughton (♫♫) 03:42, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Call-Out Order
The Call-Out Order chart colors seem to display wrong on my computer. The Couple with the highest judges scores for week 1 and 2 appear in an orange color while the Two couples that tied for the highest score in week 3 appear in a green color that matches the index chart below the main chart. The chart coding is too complex for me to understand. Dbiel (Talk) 02:30, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The call out order is just fancruft trivia that doesn't need to be included --MSalmon (talk) 08:37, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Average Table
Can anyone explain how the averages table works after week 4? Not only are these dances not scored on the traditional 30 point scale, but the points have been added up incorrectly. For example, Bristol had 60.0 total points as of week 3, but now she has 84.0, but it should be 92.0 since she received 32.0 points from the judges. Please either fix this or explain as to why there is such a discrepancy in the points, thanks! Tyler george6 (talk) 02:20, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to subtract Abdul's score for each couple from the total (so Kirstie's total out of 4 is 30.0 so it would be subtract 7.5 from that) --MSalmon (talk) 09:05, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Dance Chart
If there ever was a series/season to point out how pointless "one unlearned dance" as the sum total of information in the line for a particular week early in the show can be, this is it!! I fought a losing battle against this on another page, pointing out that:


 * "If no one has yet danced a particular style, it should be listed on the line for that week. Period."

Early in the history of the show, the pattern was of only two styles per week, with everyone getting a new style each week, then in the latter weeks, the remaining contestants would do one of the styles from the early weeks that they had yet to do. This entry made sense under that format.

However, the show is no longer being so structured in its approach to scheduling dance styles, and to use this phrase as a euphemism for "several styles were danced this week" is not terribly informative. I believe it would be better to list ANY dance not previously danced on the line for each week, even if that meant a fairly long list (as would obviously be the case for Weeks 3 and 4 this series/season). If some of the dancers did do dance styles previously done, "one unlearned dance" obviously has a legitimate place at the end of the line.

To illustrate this: In a "worst case scenario" under the convention being used now, if the show started doing an assortment of dances right from the start on Week One, then the entry for EACH WEEK in this section would be: "One Unlearned Dance" -- which is obviously uninformative in the extreme.

Pending any discussion here, I will not make this change yet, but absent a strong argument against, I plan to make that change at some time in the near future.

OLEF641 (talk) 05:13, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Week 5
Hi, does anybody know how the judges will be scoring the freestyle dances (out of 30 or ranking)? --MSalmon (talk) 22:35, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Averages/Highest and lowest scoring performances/Couples' Highest and lowest scoring performances
Hey, I hope someone can help out. My question isn't about this article but the third season of the French version which I'm the main contributor to and I figured more people might be likely to reply here. The thing is there are three judges instead of four, so thus no problem I started out filling out the charts on a max of 40 instead of 30. But then starting from the third week the judges started out giving two grades, a technical one and an artistic one, with each dance thus getting a maximum of 80 points. So I guess we can't use both grades since it wouldn't fit with the first two weeks that were graded only on 40. But thus, which grade should one use for the averages and highest and lowest scoring performances? Artistic or technical? Thanks. Happy Evil Dude (talk) 19:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to discuss it on the French page not here as it isn't relevant to this article. --MSalmon (talk) 23:00, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I realize that, but as previously stated, literally no one will reply on the page for the article in question. Happy Evil Dude (talk) 11:29, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I just had a look at the talk page for the French article and there is nothing on there yet, so why are you asking here when you haven't even started a discussion on there? --MSalmon (talk) 22:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Dancing with the Stars
Here in order.

How's that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.29.204 (talk)
 * How's that for what? Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:43, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Colour contrast problems
It seems that this article is using colours in the infobox which don't satisfy Wikipedia's accessibility guidelines. The contrast between the foreground colour and the background colour is low, which means that it may be difficult or impossible for people with visual impairments to read it.

To correct this problem, a group of editors have decided to remove support for invalid colours from Template:Infobox television season and other television season templates after 1 September 2015. If you would still like to use custom colours for the infobox and episode list in this article after that date, please ensure that the colours meet the WCAG AAA standard.

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Can tables be added in place of the brackets system to represent the judges' scores?
I know it messes with every page before and after, but the half points system makes it extremely difficult to understand the judges scores, and I reckon it would be much cleaner and tidier, and more understandable, to have separate columns for the scores (like on the pro dancers pages). MrDoctorWho6 (talk) 14:46, 9 April 2024 (UTC)