Talk:Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit/Archive 1

Danzig City State
church records (legal records of citizens born in Danzig): http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=352724&subject_disp=Germany%2C+Preu%C3%9Fen%2C+Westpreu%C3%9Fen%2C+Danzig+%2D+Church+records&columns=*,0,0

Gdansk
The City is called Gdansk and was a Part of Poland not (Now Gdansk,Poland)

http://chem.oswego.edu/chem209/Misc/fahrenheit.htm

Another source that it was a Part of Poland. Now Poland shouldnt be included in this article my change however did mentuon the german name of danzig. Kommiec 05:12, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

When signing for Royal Society Fahrenheit wrote: Fahrenheit, Polonus. AM

I removed the following from the article:
 * "He signed his name in latin as "Fahrenheit-Polonus", that gives us some hint about XVIII century citizenship concepts"

I will add a that back (minus the subjective interpretation of citizenship which would be an interpretation/opinion and not fact) when a reliable source for this information is given. Maximus Rex 20:00, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Why remove? Wasn't he a citizen of Kings city of Danzig, that belonged to Poland??? To sign into Royal Society he was supposed to add some personal informations, including citizenship. In this situation, please keep this information, until I failed to provide sources, OK? AM

I don't understand what you are trying to saying. I have asked you to provide a reliable source for contentious information that you've added, without a reliable source it should not be included. Maximus Rex 20:10, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I am saying, that rather you should provide information about alleged "German" allegiation of Fahrenheit. He was a Pole, as other 12 000 000 of that time, was. Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants and Jews. Speaking Polish, German, Lithuanian, Belorussian. Your beloved Reich was created in 1871 and starting from that time most of German speaking people gradually invented German national awerness. If you find a proof that he shed his Polish state citizenship, you are free to say Deutcher Fahrenheit. AM

I don't understand why you are attacking me, ethnically Fahrenheit is without doubt German as most biographies indicate (however I will not push the issue). I have provided a source for the Fahrenheit family history. You have not provided a source for you contentious "Fahrenheit Polonus" claim. I have seen photographs of Fahrenheit's signature and it is not as you described. Maximus Rex 20:22, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Do I oppose the fact that he was ethnic German?? I am asking why you refuse to accept the fact, that he was a Polish citizen. AM

Original text of the above post given in this diff:.

It's fine that you have your own interpretation of history, that doesn't change that you've provided no reliable source for the "Fahrenheit Polonus" claim. Maximus Rex 20:35, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Let's start from the beginning. Fahrenheit was born as a Polish citizen, then moved to Netherlands. Eventually, he went to London. His state allegiation was Polish-Dutch. Do you oppose? AM

Yes, I do object. Absolutely none of the references I've consulted indicate Polish citizenship. You could call him German or German-Dutch, indicating his German ethnicity or also noting that he lived most of his life in the Netherlands. I would accept not mentioning anything about his nationality as a compromise.

check out these references:
 * Encyclopedia Britannica: "German physicist"
 * encyclopedia.com "German-Dutch physicist"
 * Encarta: "German physicist"

- Maximus Rex 21:59, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The resources that you are pointing out base on chauvinistically screwed materials from the times of German Reich. What I wanted you to find out, are original resources from the times of Fahrehneit. After 1871, Germans started to claim everything in history as allegedly German. In reality, Fahrenheit was Polish citizen, was also connected to Lower German sphere of culture, that included Baltics, Netherlands and Hanseatic towns in Germany. The meaning of Germanhood, that your resources claim, were not in place in 1724. In this time even King of Poland was, as you claim, ethnic German, but his greatest enemies were other Germans, while Poles were allied to Saxons. Stop your nationalistically biased edit wars!

AM

The only one having a "nationalistically biased edit war" is you, since I have offered to not state any nationality. The Encyclopedia Britannica is generally considered the most respected encyclopedia in the english language and not "chauvinistically screwed material", as you describe it. Maximus Rex 22:16, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

In 1724 Poland existed and Germany practically not. In 1901 was other way around. Fahrenheit clearly stated his citizenship. Please provide source materials, to prove you are right! User:WolfgangPeters

--- What source do you need? Just look at any recently published historical map of the period and see in what country he was born. There is also an excellent book by Karin Friedrich called "The Other Prussia", which talks about the polish province Royal Prussia in XVI, XVII and XVIII centuries. It looks in detail at the issue of identity of the german speaking citizens of Poland. You will find a lot of interesting and unbelievable facts in there. And please, don't accuse others of interpreting history, if you can only contradict them with some old stereotypes and arguments using the "everybody knows..." line.

I'm not changing anything. I don't want an edit war but mutual understanding reached through calm discussion. Happy Holidays, everyone! Space Cadet 20:52, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

If we are going to use people's ethnicity rather than their time and place of birth to define their "citizenship" (for want of a better word), there won't be many Australian or American physicists, actors, politicians, etc. Not a good idea. It seems to me that time and place of birth should be used to define initial citizenship with a note for people who changed their citizenship in later life through emigration, declaration or whatever. And that view makes Fahrenheit Polish by birth, where-ever his great-grandfathers came from and whatever states he may later have settled in. -- Derek Ross

You're exaggerating the case a bit there. According to the article, Farenheit's family had been living in Gdansk for 36 years when he was born. Compare with that the 200 years that anglo-saxon Australian or American familes can claim in their country, plus the fact that they have a passport and a government who claim them as actually American (or Australian). And while the US will give you a passport just for being born there, in most countries being born in a stable doesn't entitle you to call yourself a horse.

Not that I think Farenheit definitely can't be said to be Polish - I know nothing about Gdansk, so I have no idea whether the authorities there would have considered his family Polish or resident foreigners. But I think the judgement should be made based on sources of the time, not on modern patriotism or in order not to set a precedent whereby some non-Australian muppet might try to steal Howard Florey or J. Paul Hogan - they can be dealt with if and when they turn up. Onebyone 02:19, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Sorry, I had to correct some phrases and names in the article; it was clear that some people had added stuff which had nothing to do with Fahrenheit. Gdansk before 1945 was known as Danzig (or Dantzig, Dantzic) in the English world, so we should use this expression for the 17th century. We should also add the name "Gdansk" to make clear how the city is called today. This is what I did. I also deleted the Polish name of Königsberg, as it was actually Kneiphof where Fahrenheit's grandfather moved from. Kneiphof later was made part of Königsberg (today: Kaliningrad). It is also unnecessary to discuss in detail in such a short article that Fahrenheit was born to a German family and what exactly the status of Danzig at that time was.

Now to the discussion about Fahrenheit's nationality and citizenship. Please do not apply modern notions of citizenship to historical situations. Before 1871, there was no German national state, so there was no German citizenship. Does this now mean that people like Luther, Bach, and Beethoven were not German? Of course not, because the notion of nationality at that time was cultural - not civil or ethnic. And in the 17th century, Danzig was fully integrated in the German cultural sphere, although its origins were slavic (like those of Lübeck, Leipzig, Dresden, and Berlin, for example). The city was autonomous as many other German cities in this time, and only formally part of the Kingdom of Poland. Greifswald, e.g., a small city at the Baltic sea in what is today Germany, was under the Swedish Crown for two centuries. But do we call Caspar David Friedrich, the romantic painter, Swedish? Of course not, although he was born in 1774 when the city was under Swedish rule. Moreover, I am sure that Fahrenheit was German in such a degree that he would have been driven out of Danzig in 1945 with all other inhabitants of the city. And finally, I do not know any Pole who would call Adam Mickiewicz Russian, although there was no Polish state at the time of his birth.

I want to make clear the following point: I know and acknowledge that today, Gdansk is a Polish city and that it is going to stay Polish. Germany has officially given up her claim to the former Eastern territories, and I support that policy, as the vast majority of Germans do. I know that the war started by Germany inflicted great suffering to the Polish people, and, as a German, I feel deeply sorry for that. This, however, is not a sufficient reason to rewrite Danzig's history before 1945, because we should stay to the historical truth. It is also important to know that it was Stalin who decided in 1945 that large German territories were given under Polish administration - thus, he intended to provoke lasting hatred between Poland and Germany. I know that it is very difficult for Poles to accept that a significant part of their country consists of territories with a German political and cultural heritage, but may be some time this will be acknowledged.

Sorry that I wrote all this stuff in this place. I just noticed that in a lot of articles, history back up to the deep middle ages is rewritten to justifiy the course of 20th century history, and I just came over this article by chance. Levimanthys 01:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

As all my changes have already been reverted, I understand that it does not make any sense to improve this or any other article with an involvement of German and Polish persons. It is sad to have nonsense phrases in the article like this one: "Daniel's grandfather Reinhold Fahrenheit vom Kneiphof moved to Gdańsk from Królewiec (Königsberg) and settled as a merchant." Which does not at all make clear that this man moved from Kneiphof (today: part of Kaliningrad) to Danzig (today: Gdansk), but rather suggests his name was "vom Kneiphof" and that he moved between two Polish cities. Moreover, why is the city called Królewiec? Before 1945, the city was known in the English language as Königsberg, and after that as Kaliningrad. There was never a significant Polish minority in that city, and its connection to Poland is comparable to that of historical Spain and Austria - it has nothing to do with the inhabitants, but is only due to feudalism. The nonsense, however continues. In the French Wikipedia you can read: Le degré Fahrenheit est une unité de mesure de la température, qui doit son nom au physicien polonais Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit). Here, Fahrenheit is already Polish (though he is still German in the article about his person). I am looking forward to the day when Caspar David Friedrich will be called Swedish, Gerhart Hauptmann and Arthur Schopenhauer Polish, and Immanuel Kant Russian, or better also Polish. And Alessandro Manzoni was an Austrian of course, not an Italian, because he was born in Milan in 1785, which was at that time called Mailand and was part of Austria. Copernicus is already widely considered to be Polish, because today nobody wants to understand the complicated situation in the area which was under both German and Polish influence. As I said, I will not participate in childish edit wars. But everybody should be aware that he reads a lot of nonsense in Wikipedia, especially as regarding to questions of nationality, national pride and history. Fortunately, there are more important questions than these, and a lot of articles dealing with scientific topics are quite good and informative. Levimanthys 12:44, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Fahrenheit
Article reads:
 * It is still used by the general population for everyday temperature measurement in the United States and a few other English-speaking countries.

Which other English countries? I thought in UK, Canada, Ireland weather reports and medical body temperature measurements were metricated; they certaintly are in Australia and NZ, which is close to the whole English-speaking world, bar the US. -- SJK
 * The last time I was in Britain, no, the time before that (three summers ago?), there was great excitement over the occurrence in London of a temperature of 100°F in the shade. The Brits I talked with talked in terms of Fahrenheit. Moreover, until recently (and for all I know perhaps even now) BBC Radio 4 would routinely give temperatures in pairs, Celsius and Fahrenheit; I got the impression that Mr and Ms Average Brit would ignore the former and think in terms of the latter. -- Hoary 06:42, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * That is the British tabloid for you. High temperatures are always reported in Fahrenheit because a HUNDRED (F) sound more dramatic than 40C.  But low temperatures are always in Celcius - again becuase MINUS 10!!! (c) is more dramatic than plus 12-ish F.  Ovens and fridges are all in C.  The weather report always display the C value but sometimes the newscaster gives the F figure verbally for the old folks. My subjective impression is that most people talk in C.  --Red King (talk) 23:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Gabriel Fahrinheiet
Daniel Gabriel Fahrenhiet was born May 24,1686 and died on September 16, 1736.

Thermometers
Article reads: "He built precise thermometers." How precise were they really? Fahrenheit reads: "His measurements were not entirely accurate, though; by his original scale, the actual freezing and boiling points would have been noticeably different from 32 °F and 212 °F. Some time after his death it was [recalibrated by 2.6 °F]." This certainly wasn't precise by our modern standards &mdash; how precise was it considered then? &mdash; Sebastian (talk) 04:26, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Konigsberg, Kaliningrad, Krolowiec
this is about adding the Polish name to the article. Molobo says it should be because it has a shared Polish-German History. But the shared Polish history is only that it was ruled by a Polish fief, the rulers were Germans, semi-independent from Poland. I say it should not be called Krolowiec (the polish name) as the Kaliningrad/Konigsberg article does not use the term except in the tiniest portion on when it was a Polish fiefdom (note: not actually owning or ruling the land).

In conclusion, the Polish name should not be used as the Polish name is not even used in the city's article. --Jadger 23:07, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Adding Polish names to Königsberg is not acceptable.-- Matthead Discuß   23:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Wrong Picture?
The person on the picture in the article is probably not Gabriel Fahrenheit, but Anders Celsius. It is very unlikely that Gabriel Fahrenheit and Anders Celsius were that similar. // November 4, 2006
 * As this seems to be the case, I deleted the link, and tagged the image for deletion. -- Matthead discuß!    O       12:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Hanseatic League and Polish POV
The Fahrenheit family and Fahrenheit himself were merchants that clearly used the opportunities that the Hanseatic League cities, and associated cities, offered. It is a sure sign of ignorance or deliberate POV pushing if referenceas to Danzig as a Hanseatic League member city are deleted in favour of a Polish POV. This country had few if any influence on Fahrenheit's life and work in the Netherlands. -- Matthead discuß!    O       12:18, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia entries are worse than mere Polish POV, they are often deliberate lies. Fahrenheit was not Polish-born, he was not born in Poland. The same goes for many other persons and places at wikipedia. It is without conscience that these untrue statements are repeated over and over again at Wikipedia under the guise of mere Polish POV Point of views. Wikipedia is guilty in spreading these unfactual point of views, by automatically removing factual statements.

The above unsigned comment was added by User:87.187.186.201 10:51, 25 April 2007

Royal Prussia
Royal Prussia (Prusy Królewskie) was a province of the Kingdom of Poland and then the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth from 1569 to 1772. Royal Prussia included Eastern Pomerania, Chełmno Land (Kulmerland), Malbork Voivodeship (Marienburg), Gdańsk (Danzig), Toruń (Thorn), and Elbląg (Elbing).

We are born in only one place on Earth. Canada is Canada. Germany is Germany. Poland is Poland even if only between wars. --Poeticbent  talk   16:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

(The preceeding unsigned comment was added by User:87.187.186.201 (talk) warned twice against adding unconstructive content to Wikipedia as of 16:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC))
 * And Prussia is Prussia

(The preceeding unsigned comment was added by User:Space Cadet as of 15:29, 26 April 2007.)
 * and Gdańsk was not a part of it.


 * Removed incorrect note: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Gabriel_Fahrenheit&diff=126157303&oldid=126142917 --User:87.187.167.90 as of 14:03, 27 April 2007 (talk)

Matthead, the Fahrenheit family had lots of different choices between Hanse cities in other countries, yet they decided on Gdańsk in Poland, most definitely because of the privileges and higher standard of living that the Commonwealth had to offer. That's why it's important to mention the country of his birth rather than the Hanse membership of Gdańsk. Space Cadet 18:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

material by Carmen Giunta
This article seems to incorporate a translation by Carmen Giunta. I wonder who this is. There's a Carmen Giunta who appears to be alive and well right now (and obviously hasn't been dead for 70 years; a significant term in US copyright law) and is supplying old texts on chemistry; although not, as far as I can see, on physics. Just a coincidence? If this is the same Carmen Giunta, then what assurance do we have that he/she released this material either under GFDL or into the public domain?

There are other oddities, too, about this recent series of edits by one editor; perhaps all is well, but I hope he/she explains here. -- Hoary 00:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Major reversion
Until an explanation comes, we can't assume that what's credited to Giunta can legally be posted here. As long as we can't assume this, the entire series of edits by one editor that brought in the Giunta material is, I regret to say, suspect. I've therefore reluctantly reverted the article to the state it was in before the additions. I look forward to seeing an explanation by the editor, which I'll read with great interest. -- Hoary 03:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Stop edit-warring about Danzig/Gdańsk issues here and let Gabriel Fahrenheit rest in peace!
Discuss Danzig/Gdańsk issues on pages covering the history of the city, not in biographies like this here. -- Matthead discuß!    O       23:38, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Will you guys listen? -- Matthead Discuß   23:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not about Danzig/Gdańsk anymore, but about mentioning the guy's country of birth. Space Cadet (talk) 00:12, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * This article is about a person, not about a town, and certainly not about one country or the other. Stop editwarring, Space Cadet. You have been warned many times. -- Matthead Discuß   00:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Why am I "editwarring" and not you? Country of birth is an important part of an article about a person. You've been warned, too. Space Cadet (talk) 01:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * PS. How come all Polish people born when Poland did not exist have the country of birth stated clearly and nobody cares? Stop making such a big deal out of your "homies" having been born in my "'hood". What is it shameful to be born in Poland, or something?

was he born on th 14th or the24th??
It says on one place this and on the other the other/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.34 (talk • contribs) 13:35, 27 June 2007

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 09:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Danzig, Imperial City
References to Danzig Imperial City —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.223.2 (talk • contribs) 04:00, 21 April 2008
 * Better would be a search for Danzig "Imperial City"


 * Vienna, Danzig (Gdansk, a city of the king of Poland since 1454; its status comparable to that of an imperial city; member of the Hanseatic League). - A Comparative Study of Thirty City-state Cultures: An Investigation, by Mogens Herman Hansen, 2000
 * Danzig was a Lutheran imperial city, - The Story of the Mennonites, by C. Henry Smith, 1957
 * ... and so on. Anyway, biographies are not the proper place to discuss the status of cities. Fahrenheit worked most of his life in Amsterdam. Do Dutch editors frequently show up to discuss the status of Amsterdam, to add Dutch, and Holland or Netherlands to the article, or is the city discussed which Fahrenheit left at age 15 or 16, a city which "had hardly a Pole within its walls"? -- Matthead Discuß   19:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Does Matthead want to add paragraph on how Germans took over during Germanisation Gdańsk which was founded by Poles ? I don't think that is needed, but if the sad effects of Germanisation and German takeover are deemed by Matthead to be important for the article this can be discussed.--Molobo (talk) 23:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Can somebody explain
Why is the country of birth deleted without explanation ?--Molobo (talk) 01:01, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Because it's probably shameful for a German guy to be born in Poland. Space Cadet (talk) 14:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Was he German ? After all German identity is a new creation by Prussia during its conquest of various states.--Molobo (talk) 15:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

True that! Space Cadet (talk) 15:30, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Besides Polish what other citizenship did he held
I would guess British ?--Molobo (talk) 01:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

How about HANSEATIC once and for all! Space Cadet (talk) 14:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Body temperature
This article states that Fahrenheit originallly set body temperature to was 98.6°F and it was later recalibrated to 98°. This contradicts the Fahrenheit article which says it started at 96° and was later recalibrated to 98.6°. Sluggoster (talk) 07:52, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, this is the biography of the person, subject to ongoing edit wars about the political status and names of towns. Regarding any scientific issue, I guess the article Fahrenheit is far more reliable. Oh, never mind, I've seen that the highly relevant claim "Poland" was added there, too, no matter that his life after 1717 took place in the Netherlands, something which does not need to be mentioned of course. -- Matthead Discuß   14:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * 96° is correct; 98.6° is merely the Fahrenheit translation of 37° Celsius, and has become popular due to its delusions of precision. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:34, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * No, still wrong. The size of a degree changed to make boiling point a nice round 180.  See contemporary meterial cited at http://www.sizes.com:80/units/temperature_Fahrenheit.htm. So I've replaced that section to avoid a pointless debate that is based on misunderstandings. --Red King (talk) 20:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Did he have British citizenship ?
Did he have British citizenship ? --Molobo (talk) 22:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit citizenship?
NO, he did not have British citizenship. Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit was born in Danzig, Prussia and had Danzig/Prussian citizenship Jus Indigenatus Prussiae (Prussian citizenship held in common in both parts, western and eastern, (West and East) Prussia. Perhaps he also had Amsterdam or Den Hague, Netherland citizenship, since he lived there for many years. He never had Polish citizenship, nor was he born in Poland, an error often repeated. He also did not hold British citizenship. An Observer 15.6.2008 -  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.133.68.253 (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Danzig was at the time of Fahrenheit's birth part of Poland, and thus he was born in Poland. Whether he was a Polish citizen thus depends on whether at the time Poland followed jus soli or jus sanguinis. Caerwine Caer’s whines  03:52, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Citizenship and place of birth is constantly removed
From the article.--Molobo (talk) 21:35, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there is an edit war about whether Danzig was in Prussia or is in Poland. Both are true!  But at the time he lived there, it was Prussia. --Red King (talk) 22:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Or maybe again it was Poland? This map seems to suggest that at the time it was in the Polish Kingdom?  Expert needed! --Red King (talk) 23:09, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It was in Poland, Prussia would gain it years later.--Molobo (talk) 23:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

---

Danzig ('in Poland Prussia would gain it years later') is just as true as Wikipedia's Daniel's grandfather 1703-1781 moved to Danzig in 1650
Fahrenheit was born in 1686 in Gdańsk (Danzig) in the Kingdom of Poland[4][5] The Fahrenheits were a merchant family who had moved around Europe, Fahrenheit's great-grandfather had lived in Rostock, and research suggests that the Fahrenheit family originated in Hildesheim.[6] Daniel's grandfather, Reinhold Friedrich Fahrenheit (1703-1781), moved from Kneiphof (in Königsberg) to Danzig and settled there as a merchant in 1650. By widespread trading, he became the richest man in eastern Prussia.[7] His son, Daniel Fahrenheit (the father of the subject of this article), married Concordia (widowed name, Runge), daughter of the well-known Danzig business family of Schumann. Daniel Gabriel was the eldest of the five Fahrenheit children (two sons, three daughters) who survived childhood.

Maps with Danzig Pomerelia in Prussia 1100s Holy Roman Empire to the 1600s during time of Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit
 * 1200s Pomerania, Danzig Pomerelia, Holy Roman Empire
 * Danzig Pautzke at Pautzker Wiek in 1600s
 * Danzig Pautzke, Prussia, ca. 1600

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.192.221 (talk) 22:11, 26 August 2008 (UTC) --

Absurdity at Wikipedia about Fahrenheit's grandfather
The adsurdity about Fahrenheit's grandfather having lived in the 18th century and having moved from Koenigsberg to Danzig in 1650 was corrected September 1.

It was several times reentered incorrectly



until finally Pumeks corrected this one mistake on October 10. An Observer (71.137.197.97 (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)) -

FALSE CLAIM "Reference" by Molobo (and company) concerning Fahrenheit - removed
Once again, like so many times, Wikipedia User:Molobo claimed A FALSE CLAIM. Molobo claims, that Professor Andrzej Staruszkiewicz stated, that Fahrenheit was Polish (Polish ).

The article by Prof. Staruszkiewicz however, says that it is debatable, not that it is a fact, as Wikipedia's User Molobo and others claim. Perhaps the professor thinks, it is debatable, because he is not that familiar with history and therefore does not know, that people in Danzig, Prussia had Prussian Jus Indigenatus, Prussian citizenship.

Here is the link to the article, the phrase and translation: http://www.ptf.agh.edu.pl/SN/staruszkiewicz_A.pdf Professor’s own article and translation:

Str. 223. Na tej stronie jest 7 notek biograficznych, w których doliczyłem się dwu błędów, jednej informacji kontrowersyjnej i jednej niekonsekwencji. Błędy to imię Celsiusa i nazwisko Hooke’a. Kontrowersyjne jest określenie Fahrenheita jako fizyka niemieckiego. Przyjmując godność członka Royal Society Fahrenheit podpisał się jako Gabriel Fahrenheit, Polonus bo jako gdańszczanin uważał się za obywatela Rzeczypospolitej. Warto by pamiętać o tym w polskich podręcznikach. Translation (poltrans):

Str. 223. It is on this part 7 biographical notes, I has been added in (to) which (who) two errors, one argumentative information and one inconsistency. Errors this name Celsiusa and surname hooke. Determination is argumentative as german physicist (physics) Fahrenheita. Has subscribed as gabriel of fahrenheit dignity of member (limb) accepting (catch on) fahrenheit Royal Society, typical pole of past centuries because as inhabitant of gdansk was thought (was considered) for citizen of polish republic. It is proper to remember about in polish textbooks it.

An Observer (71.137.202.100 (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2008 (UTC)) Addition to Wikipedia User:Molobo's false statement
 * Already in an earlier entry May 30, 2008 13:45 by Wikipedia User:Molobo http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Daniel_Gabriel_Fahrenheit&diff=215964092&oldid=215962198

claims, that Fahrenheit signed himself POLONUS in the Royal Geographic Society. Molobo gives as reference Prof. A. Starucskiewicz, who as shown above '''does n o t state, that Fahrenheit signed himself Polonus in the Geogr. Society'', contrary to what Molobo through Wikipedia tries to make the public believe. An Observer (71.137.200.98 (talk) 20:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC))
 * Another Person made another false claim giving the same A.Staruszkiewicz as reference. An Observer (71.137.200.98 (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC))
 * and again absurdity about Fahrenheit's grandfather, who moved in 1650 and "lived from 1703-1781 and was the richest man in eastern Prussia" (71.137.200.98 (talk) 05:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC))
 * Latest A. Staruszkiewicz " false proof" re-inserted by Astrochemist (71.137.200.98 (talk) 21:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC))

See below. - Astrochemist (talk) 14:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

My mistake
Regarding the previous comment from IP 71.137.200.98, the burden of proof when either adding new material or restoring old material to a Wikipedia article is on the Editor who makes such changes. See this page, and also the text box therein, for Wikipedia's stand on verifiability. Since my reading knowledge of Polish is very limited, I am removing the Polish-language portion of the article which my reversion restored. I can't vouch for that article's claims, and I can't tell if the article cited has undergone peer review by independent experts. - Astrochemist (talk) 14:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Question
Is "German" an ethnicity? I don't know. Wikipedia has an ethnic groups page at this location. Is there an authoritative answer? - Astrochemist (talk) 14:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Two suggestions

 * 1) Since this is the English-language version of Wikipedia then the references, citations, etc. should be in English.
 * 2) Compromise is needed for all committee and team efforts, so my suggestion is that Editors compromise on, or remove, details of Fahrenheit's birthplace and devote the time gained to writing about that for which Fahenrenheit is remembered.  The only reason Fahrenheit gets a Wikipedia article is because of his scientific work.  His eligibility is independent of whether he was born in Poland, Prussia, or anywhere else for that matter.

I don't intend to be a regular contributor to this page, so best wishes with its editing. Astrochemist (talk) 14:37, 26 October 2008 (UTC) --- Astrochem, thanks for at least reading part of the discussions. A summary and Google search results for English-language books in reference to:

Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit

Some Wikipedia users try to make the world believe, that Fahrenheit identified himself as Fahrenheit Polonus, that he was Polish. They keep re-adding as “Polish”assumed ”proof” Already in an earlier entries, one of them May 30, 2008 13:45 Wikipedia User:Molobo * claims, that Fahrenheit signed himself POLONUS and uses the same one reference, which keeps getting re-inserted, even though it differs from what the person actually wrote. This was posted on Fahrenheit discussion, but still keeps getting used.
 * ,
 * ,
 * re-addition

Here is the link to the article, the phrase and translation:
 * Professor’s own article and translation:

Str. 223. Na tej stronie jest 7 notek biograficznych, w których doliczyłem się dwu błędów, jednej informacji kontrowersyjnej i jednej niekonsekwencji. Błędy to imię Celsiusa i nazwisko Hooke’a. Kontrowersyjne jest określenie Fahrenheita jako fizyka niemieckiego. Przyjmując godność członka Royal Society Fahrenheit podpisał się jako Gabriel Fahrenheit, Polonus bo jako gdańszczanin uważał się za obywatela Rzeczypospolitej. Warto by pamiętać o tym w polskich podręcznikach.

Translation A. Staruszkiewicz (poltrans):

Str. 223. It is on this part 7 biographical notes, I has been added in (to) which (who) two errors, one argumentative information and one inconsistency. Errors this name Celsiusa and surname hooke. Determination is argumentative as german physicist (physics) Fahrenheita. Has subscribed as gabriel of fahrenheit dignity of member (limb) accepting (catch on) fahrenheit Royal Society, typical pole of past centuries because as inhabitant of gdansk was thought (was considered) for citizen of polish republic. It is proper to remember about in polish textbooks it.

Google book search results:
 * Fahrenheit Polonus ?  NONE – There is absolutely no basis for Molobo's claim 'he signed himself Fahrenheit Polonus".

So, what does English language literature says about who Fahrenheit was? Google search books

By 1900 AD
 * Fahrenheit German Result: 151 book


 * Fahrenheit Prussian


 * Fahrenheit, West Prussia

It’s difficult to search for Fahrenheit Polish, because you get the results for polish, like polishing metal Fahrenheit Polish
 * Polish books by 1920 = Result 1

By 1940 1 Polish book by Szymon Ashkenazy mentions Fahrenheit, a mythical book about Dantzig and Poland written 1919/20


 * Fahrenheit Pol by 1960 Result : 2-3

Polish physician Fahrenheit ?


 * Result 67 books - NONE refer to Fahrenheit as Polish physician, just refer to polishing metal


 * Polish physician Fahrenheit until 1980 = 48 books by 1980=  Result =  A book titled PEDIATRIC PROCEDURES calls Fahrenheit a Polish physician

What is this based on?


 * First book author calling Fahrenheit a Polish instrument maker is in 1967 by COMMENT: COMMUNIST FORTNIGHTLY REVIEW, Published 1963 by Central Books Ltd

Guess who?


 * [http://books.google.com/books?id=rnQqAAAAMAAJ&dq=Polish+physicist+Fahrenheit+date:0-1980&lr=lang_en&as_brr=0 THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF GREAT BRITAIN

2008 google book search: Result: 220 books

Out of those 220 books, a hand full state:‘’Polish physicist or Polish instrument maker, such as:
 * 1.	Pediatric Procedures 1980, obscure Dutch resident, born in Poland
 * 2.	A Brief History of Medicine 2005
 * 3.	Famous First Facts 2000a Polish-born instrument maker
 * 4.	The Hutchinson Encyclopedia of Biography 1996
 * 5.	Science Web Text 2002   renames him to David Fahrenheit 1686- 1736 a polish-born Dutch physicist

Overwhelming majority call Fahrenheit a German physicist. An Observer (71.137.200.98 (talk) 18:42, 26 October 2008 (UTC))

I'd suggest that An Observer should learn Polish before calling people liars. This translation couldn't have been worse:

Here is the link to the article, the phrase and translation:
 * Professor’s own article and translation:

Str. 223. Na tej stronie jest 7 notek biograficznych, w których doliczyłem się dwu błędów, jednej informacji kontrowersyjnej i jednej niekonsekwencji. Błędy to imię Celsiusa i nazwisko Hooke’a. Kontrowersyjne jest określenie Fahrenheita jako fizyka niemieckiego. Przyjmując godność członka Royal Society Fahrenheit podpisał się jako Gabriel Fahrenheit, Polonus bo jako gdańszczanin uważał się za obywatela Rzeczypospolitej. Warto by pamiętać o tym w polskich podręcznikach.

Translation A. Staruszkiewicz (poltrans):

Str. 223. It is on this part 7 biographical notes, I has been added in (to) which (who) two errors, one argumentative information and one inconsistency. Errors this name Celsiusa and surname hooke. Determination is argumentative as german physicist (physics) Fahrenheita. Has subscribed as gabriel of fahrenheit dignity of member (limb) accepting (catch on) fahrenheit Royal Society, typical pole of past centuries because as inhabitant of gdansk was thought (was considered) for citizen of polish republic. It is proper to remember about in polish textbooks it.

Let me help you:

Page 223. There are seven biographical notes on this page, among which I found two errors, one controversial information, and one inconsistency. The errors are: the name of Celsius, and the surname of Hooke. Controversial is the depiction of Fahrenheit as a German physicist. While accepting the honour of a member of the Royal Society Fahrenheit signed as Gabriel Fahrenheit, Polonus, because as an inhabitant of Gdańsk he considered himself a citizen of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. It is worth to remember about it in Polish textbooks.

IMHO while writing the article it's worth to keep in mind that history is written by victors. Just as An Observer is ready to discard any source coming from a British communist party, consider that all other sources are based on Prussian/Nazi representation of history. Royal Prussia in the Kingdom of Poland became the West Prussia in the Kingdom of Prussia a century after Fahrenheit was born. In 1686 Gdańsk had been in Poland for over two centuries and nothing suggested yet that 100 years later Poland would be partitioned. Multiplying a lie doesn't make one huge truth. I'm sure you can confirm this information, even here at Wikipedia. Writing that Gdańsk was in Prussia back then is as correct as claiming that New England is in the Kingdom of Great Britain today. Fahrenheit was born in Gdańsk, Poland, no matter what happened to the territory over 60 years after his death. Would he consider himself an ethnic German? It's not for me to decide. But keep the facts straight.

As long as this article contains any German, Russian, Czech or other non-English sources a Polish one should be admitted as well.

SS. ;-)--85.222.86.59 (talk) 14:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The Royal Society
Is there anything easier than checking the source in question?

AuthorizedFormsOfName 	Fahrenheit; Daniel Gabriel (1686 - 1736)

Surname 	Fahrenheit

Forenames 	Daniel Gabriel

DatesOfExistence 1686 - 1736

Nationality 	Polish

DatesAndPlaces

Birth: Danzig (Gdansk), Poland (14 or 24 May 1686)

Death: The Hague, Netherlands (16 September 1736)

http://royalsociety.org/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Persons&dsqPos=0&dsqSearch=((text)=%27fahrenheit%27) SS. ;-)--85.222.86.59 (talk) 09:24, 29 October 2008 (UTC) --- To Number 85.222... First of all let me tell you that it is a pleasure to have a person from Poland not just revert war, like so many. You actually put some thoughts into subjects, even if many of the assumptions are not correct.

Now to your claim and the source as "proof of Fahrenheit having been Polish" here the following:

It looks good at first glance. However, when you scroll down the entry, you will find, that the source is Bulloch’s Roll from the 20th century.


 * William Bulloch, (1889-1962) compiler, applied for membership in Royal Society in 1908, is known as compiler (no other occupation shows anywhere) of  “The Roll of the Fellows of the Royal Society”, in short Bulloch’s Roll was put together in the times of World War I or later. (A different subject, but this jstor link by the way shows, that Bulloch’s identification (by ‘’Gentlemen’s magazine’’) had to be corrected).

Your assumption about Prussian and Nazi as source are invalid. They are disputed by centuries of books showing Fahrenheit as German physicist. However the 20th century Bulloch’s Roll compilers list entries from UK could possibly have been made with War Propaganda in mind, or might have been used for it.

Coupled with the first written book by UK Communist Party,claiming Fahrenheit as Polish, that does seem very odd, to say the least.

The site you listed does not show an authentic actual document.

Why my assumption about Prussian and Nazi sources is invalid? Didn't the guys falsify a lot of history or forcibly germanize Poles of German descent? I'm sure there are many modern books depicting Fahrenheit as German, but aren't they just repeating all over what was written by the old German scholars? Do you have a pre-18th century partitions of Poland source claiming Fahrenheit's nationality as German?

I don't think one should discard all Bulloch's work just because he was wrong in one irrelevant case, and it's definitely a pre-1950 non-communist source. If such a noble institution like the Royal Society didn't discard it we shouldn't either. How about stating both nationalities with links to both sources, or writing that he was Polish of German descent (the most correct since his nationality couldn't have been German)?

Also, no, I don't have a picture of the original document, but one can assume that the Royal Society knows what they have, and that Bulloch, as their member, had an access to it. We have a link to the Polish professor saying that it's what Fahrenheit wrote about himself too.

SS ;)--85.222.86.59 (talk) 00:40, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Facts about Danzig in Prussia
Danzig in Prussia (Imperial Cities list: Dantiscum in Borussia), Danzig Imperial City

Google Search Book Results:: Fahrenheit Gdansk Poland by 1950 virtually unknown only a tiny handful by 2008


 * Fahrenheit Gdansk All languages by 1950 = Result: 5 books total (3 of those by Szymon Askenazy: Book title: Dantzig and Poland)


 * All languages: Fahrenheit Gdansk, Poland by 1990 majority : now Gdansk Poland (63 books


 * All languages: Fahrenheit Gdansk Poland by 2008 very few, majority: now Gdansk Poland Result 110 books


 * All languages: Fahrenheit Gdansk majority: now Gdansk- by 2008 Result 110 books

An Observer (71.137.198.58 (talk) 20:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC))
 * All languages Fahrenheit Danzig Result: 605 books

Those searches are hardly facts about anything, and many of the Danzig sources are in fact Gdańsk sources. Here are some books that have Fahrenheit as Polish:

from 1848

and others:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

There are more, but there's no sense to spend more time on it.

SS ;)--85.222.86.59 (talk) 04:21, 9 November 2008 (UTC) -
 * to 85.222.86.59, you made an odd list above. On the first book from 1848 you only wrote part of what it actually states, you 'forgot' to write the country Prussia : Fahrenheit, born in Polish Prussia 1686. Name of the country is Prussia (specific the Polish connected part, the western Prussia part) not that Fahrenheit was born in Poland or that he was Polish.

Your next samples, the books do not show a country at all, all that shows is your Polish search engine Wuszukaj ksiazki. (71.137.205.166 (talk) 21:57, 26 November 2008 (UTC))

I didn't forget anything. Prussia was not a country. It was a province of Poland.

Strange with the samples. They work fine for me. SS ;) --85.222.86.59 (talk) 22:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Removed discussion by 71.201.235.169 to talk:

Please read the lengthy discussions.

You added the incorrect Polish-German, yet your reference states that he was a German.

{{Infobox Scientist Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (24 May 1686 – 16 September 1736) was a Polish-German ref>{{cite encyclopedia | title = Fahrenheit, Gabriel Daniel 1686 – 1736 | encyclopedia = The American Heritage Science Dictionary | year = 2005 | publisher = Houghton Mifflin Company | location = Boston | url = http://books.google.com/books?id=yKUagx8PB_EC&pg=PA225&dq=Fahrenheit+German+date:1990-2008&lr=&as_brr=0&sig=MXM-wvRNHorMbDlcESOyN4ZChis | accessdate = 2008-06-14 }} physicist and engineer.
 * name             = Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit
 * birth_date       = 24 May 1686
 * birth_place      = Danzig (Gdansk)Poland (some people wrote before that it was Prussia (now Poland but I checked the 1686 map of Poland 1641-1795  and Danzig(Gdansk did belong to Poland not to Prussia)

71.201.235.169 discussion moved to talk by An Observer (70.133.72.167 (talk) 20:10, 31 October 2008 (UTC))

Hello
Hi =] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.43.50 (talk) 00:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Daniel Gabriel
I changed Gabriel Daniel to Daniel Gabriel at one point in the article to match the title and some sources. Is this definitely Fahrenheit's name or could both be accepted under different circumstances? Some sources say Gabriel Daniel and I am not sure.162.83.59.138 (talk) 02:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Question about a picture
Near the end of the article is a picture with this caption: "Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit was buried in the Kloosterkerk in The Hague." Is that picture part of a memorial at Fahrenheit's gravesite in Holland? The caption doesn't say so explcitly, although the Wikimedia Commons description is suggestive. Can a more-specific caption be added? - Astrochemist (talk) 18:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)