Talk:Danube/Archive 1

It is the only major European river to flow from west to east
"It is the only major European river to flow from west to east," says this article. Similarly, the Red River of the North is reputed to be the only major North American river to flow from south to north. But is that reputation really true? If I inserted an assertion in the article that all other rivers in Europe that flow from west to east are merely exceptions to the rule that the Danube is the only one, how soon would that be deleted, as was the similar statement I made about the Red River of the North? Michael Hardy 02:45 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)
 * I guess the Ebro, the Po and the Dniester aren't major enough. Let's remove this remark.Markussep 21:44, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Changed 'Budapesta' to 'Budapest' in figure caption. --Isk s 22:43, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi! this page needs the significance of the Danube to Europe commerce. What did the Danube do? How did it effect European culture? (from the page)

Esperanto
Why do we have the name of Danube in Esperanto ? Bogdan | Talk 21:05, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Why not / De ce nu? Gangleri | [ Th] | T 20:38, 2005 Mar 4 (UTC)
 * Why not? Because the beginning of the article is overloaded with multi-lingual information. I have reduced the names to those used in the countries through or past which the Danube flows. Other names, if wanted, can be found by consulting the various other-language wikipedias listed in the side bar. -- Picapica 12:24, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I removed Yiddish and Turkish. bogdan 20:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 * local Yiddish:‫דונער ‬ (duner) and (tyne); Turkish: Tuna


 * Removed again sme names: Slovenian: Donava, Turkish: Tuna, Croatian: Dunav, Albanian: Danubi bogdan 13:03, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Danube and eo:Danubo starts with Danu. SeeGangleri|action=history}} Th] | T 20:47, 2005 Mar 4 (UTC).

Etymology

 * See the reference at Danu to Danube. Regards Gangleri | [ Th] | T 20:38, 2005 Mar 4 (UTC)

Ister?
Ister redirects to Danube, but the article doesn't mention Ister at all, apart from an external link. Speaking of Ister, there should be a picture from Belgrade, showing Sava, Danube and "Ister". Zocky | picture popups 01:29, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Danube in other languages
In the info box, why are the names Why are the names Donau, Dunaj, Duna, Dunav and Dunărea linked? All the links redirect back to the article! Why are they even listed in the box? They are near the top of the article. --Theodore Kloba 15:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thalweg
The article stub at Thalweg mentions this article, but this article says nothing about the principle behind it or its use in Europe. I am disappointed, as I sought this article out to explain and exemplify the previous one. Can someone who knows what Thalweg IS add something to this article? Thank you. &mdash;ScouterSig 14:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Problem with first sentence
The first sentence says: "'The Danube (ancient Danuvius, ancient Greek Ἴστρος Istros) is the second longest river in the European Union and Europe's longest river [1] (the Volga) wih 3,700km (2,300mi).'" Clearly some problems at the end, and that reference link goes nowhere. Can anyone fix? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zamphuor (talk • contribs) 15:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Sorry, forgot to sign. --Zamphuor 15:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Large cities
The Danube flows through the following large cities: Krems

Krems is a town of 23,000 people. It's not a "large city" in fact it's pretty small or not... bogdan 17:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added Novi Sad, as it is larger than Ulm and Regensburg Vanjagenije 19:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Serbia
The percentage for Serbia has been missing in this article since January 2007. Surely there's a number somewhere. --Tocino 00:44, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Introduction
Is there any reason that the introduction gives the name of the river in German and Hungarian but not in Bulgarian, Croatian, Romanian, Slovakian and Serbian. Seems a bit strange to pick just two languages for the intro. JdeJ (talk) 20:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

A way to improve this article
This isn't nearly good enough for the Danube folks! Any editors fluent in some of the Danube's languages could make translations of the richer material in other Wikipedias. Don't fret about English idiom: give us the meat and the best of the External links, and we'll tweak the wording!

I'll translate some points from the german article. --91.113.90.142 (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Breg is the headstream, not the Brigach
Please refer to de:Breg... Ranma9617 (talk) 05:44, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Brat is Lava
That's funny!

You're funny! 62.47.35.251 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 10:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Etymology (2)
The article states: "One theory ultimately derives all these variations to the Celtic word *dānu, meaning "to blow", and its exact equivalent is found in the Dutch name of the river Donwy." I am Dutch-speaking, but I don't know any river with the name "Donwy", either in the Benelux or somewhere else in Europe. If the person who added this text purports that the Dutch word for Danube is Donwy, that is plainly incorrect: just like in German, the Dutch name is Donau. MaartenVidal (talk) 19:11, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree (though I do not have mother tongue Dutch) and so does my Dutch dictionary.  Someone has entered a source for "Donwy" being a Dutch version of Donau.   Is anyone able to go to that source and spell out on this talk page exactly what is actually written there, please?   Someone with a good university library to hand, maybe?   As you'll see, the source cited, which needs to be checked, is given as Mallory, J.P. and D.Q. Adams. The Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. London: Fitzroy and Dearborn, 1997: 486.
 * Thanks (especially if you were able to help). Regards Charles01 (talk) 19:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Drinking water
The drinking water sections say in part, "...Most states also find it too difficult to clean the water because of extensive pollution; only parts of Romania where the water is cleaner still use a lot of drinking water from the Danube." First, added [citation needed], second, I can't imagine that somewhere downstream in "cleaner". The Romanians probably draw from it because of poverty, not because it's cleaner. Further, didn't the Romanians contaminate the Danube badly with arsenic in a mining accident about 10 years ago? See http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/ACOS-64CNGF?OpenDocument. Danube cleaner in Romania ? - let's see a citation for that please. Bundas (talk) 01:44, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Is it "Dan-oob" or "Dan-oob-ay" or something else? Could some benevolent soul add a pronunciation key? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.174.198 (talk) 20:18, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Websters says "Dan-yoob" Could someone put that in phonetic and add it?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.200.174.198 (talk) 20:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Who is Donaueschingen named after?
Article says "...join at the eponymously named German town Donaueschingen", but the Danube is not a person nor is it named after a person. ep·o·nym (p-nm)n. A person whose name is or is thought to be the source of the name of something, such as a city, country, or era. For example, Romulus is the eponym of Rome. Nitpyck (talk) 16:42, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, the subject of your heading would appear to be Donaueschingen.  Subject as in nominative.   "Whom is Donaueschingen named after?" might work, though my mother would probably have insisted on "Afer whom is Donaueschingen named?".   But thanks for the teach-in on eponymous which is a word I always avoided due to not being sure what it meant.  Also, as far as I ca make out, Webster agrees with you.  Regards Charles01 (talk) 16:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's not be so precious. "Who is Donaueschingen named after?" is perfectly good colloquial English, as is often written on these Talk Pages. In fairly high dudgeon right now, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Countries of the Danube
The percentages of the river flowing through each country only add up to 89.7 per cent. Where's the rest of it? Also, the List of longest rivers article lists Bosnia-Herzegovina, but that still leaves about 6% unaccounted for. If it does flow through 11, doesn't that make it the river that flows through the greatest number of countries. Gmackematix (talk) 01:50, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Most of these percentages are wrong or unprecise (e.g. Romania: 28,9 % and Bulgaria: 5,2 % ??). --TimHalldor (talk) 13:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Etymology
I don't think it is correct to say that the word "Donau" is ultimately derived from Iranian *danu. That Iranian (or better: Avestic) word is nothing more than an ancient witness to the Indo-European root *danu (with long a). It is more correct to say that the word "Donau" is cognate with Avestic *danu (as it is with Sanskrit da-nu), both derived from that Indo-European root. Blancefloer 14:04, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. But the /-au/ suffix of the name (in various languages, such as in German "Donau") has striking similarities to Iranian /au/ (also /av/ or /ab/) meaning "water". The Avestan cognate was apa, of course related to the modern Persian au (pronounced ow) and āb, as well as Kurdish aw (av). Various rivers and cities in Europe, especially in the area where German dialects are spoken, have the same ending, for example the small rivers Pinnau, Gronau, Düpenau and Mühlenau in northern Germany, or the towns and islands Löbau, Lindau, Mainau, Ellerau, and many others. All of these towns are located at either a river or a lake. Anyway, similarities between Celtic and Iranian vocabulary is not uncommon. My favourite example is that of the Celtic word clach, meaning "stone", which is almost identical to the Persian word kolo kh , having the same meaning (the Persian word is used for soft stones, while /sang/ is the general term for "stone"). --82.83.152.198 20:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

It is odd that all the primary rivers emptying into the Black Sea have accepted Iranic names (Don, Donets, Deniepr, Deniestr...), but for Danube, a distant Celtic term is brandished to be the root! The Danube basin, from its delta to the Panonian Plain (Hungary) was home for long centuries to the Iranic Scythians/Sarmatians/Alans who also named the other afformentioned rivers. How exactly therefore a Celtic term presumed to be the source in preference to an obvious Iranic, sounds more nationalistic than linguistic. This impression fortified by consistently removing even a hint of the possible Iranic source for the name from the article by the zealot contributor, not allowing the readers to have the benefit of the alternative explanation! What a shame.

And by the way, it is not "Iranian", but "Iranic"--a family of languages is suffixed with -ic not -ian, unless there is only one surviving offspring, like Armenian. Thus, Germanic, Celtic, Indic, Iranic...etc. Likewise, it is Avestan, not Avestic. And *Danu is a Scythian derivative not Avestan, although both are Northeastern Iranic tongues) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.243.194.141 (talk) 05:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The Latin form Danubius (Danupius) as also Greek Δούναβης (Dūnapis/Dūnavis) show that the older forms were Dānupis/Dūnapis (one form is with metathesis), cf ape/upe/upis 'river' and dūņas 'sea sludge, mud', so Danube means 'sludgy river'. Roberts7 18:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to mention that, the Indic languages are "Indo-Aryan" languages, not indo-Iranian. Indo-Aryan languages are spoken in the indian sub-continent, which is far from the region. Most probably, the name is of Sarmatian or Scythian origin, which is Indo-Iranian(or more accurately, Iranian), not Indic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.183.124.223 (talk) 19:17, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian?
Serbo-Croatian does not exist, there is Croatian and Serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nino2110 (talk • contribs) 10:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

My dictionairy says your wrong,stop your nationalist ramblings and accept the truth. - dude —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.22.88 (talk) 19:01, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Four redirects??
The four redirects on top of the page do the article no justice. Can't that be changed (like linking the redirects to the other pages??). This solution doesn't seem very reader friendly. Joost 99 (talk) 18:38, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. Maybe the should end up in the disambiguation page for Danube--Codrin.B (talk) 02:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have made them disambiguation pages; Dunay and Donau. Dunaj already exsisted. Joost 99 (talk) 15:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Very nice! Thanks! --Codrin.B (talk) 01:19, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

List of basin countries - Albania?
Albania seems to be listed as one of the countries through which Danube flows, which is clearly not true. Could someone please correct this error? Uros


 * It's not an error. There is a river which rises from NE Albania and flows into Drina, which flows into Sava which flows into the Danube. bogdan 14:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Get your facts strait people. Ha ha strait not straight. (Wikipedia-geography) get it?

Not in reference to Albania, but Moldova is mentioned in both lists (flowing through and being part of the basin). Are these both true? If so, the wording of the paragraph may need to be changed, since the connector sentence slightly incorrect. Ariasne 20:04, 19 September 2006 (UTC)How the heck did somebody count the Danube drainage basin area in the Czech Republic? ~2% of the country? Almost the entire Moravia is drained by the Danube, which has to be at least a fifth of the country.


 * Danube's catchment basin in the Czech Republic covers 31.59% of the country's territory. I thought at first the figures in the article were percentages of the total catchment basin area (not particularly useful information), but this would be incorrect as well as for the Czech Republic, it should be 3.1% rather than 2.6%. --Tomáš Pecina 06:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Autochthony writes -

This seems least bad place for my comment: - Main Article: 'Geography', 'Sectioning' currently reads: - 'Upper Section: From spring to Devín Gate. Danube remains a characteristic mountain river until Passau, with average bottom gradient 0.0012%, from Passau to Devín Gate the gradient lessens to 0.0006%.' I suggest that those gradients are ratios, not percentages, as they seem far too small. A gradient of 0.0012% gives a drop of 12 mm [say half an inch] in a kilometre; the gradient halves, and halves again, we are told, but even at 12mm/kilometre, a river some 3000 kilometers long will drop 36 metres. I contend, on that basis, that the percentage signs be removed. That would give a drop of between 3600 metres and 900 metres; the latter looks reasonable, given Donaueschingen has an elevation of 686m [box, right, at time below]. Autochthony wrote 22 April 2011, 1250z 81.132.188.36 (talk) 12:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Romanian redirect
I removed the Romanian redirect, and it was put back, so maybe the use can be discussed here. There are something like eight (quick guess) different language areas the Danube flows through. To redirect each different language to this article seems overdone, so I would opt for making this a (disambiguation) page on it's own, consistent with the other language uses. Furthermore, this is an English language wiki, so redirecting a Romanian use name seems to much. Also see the discussion just above this one concerning cleaning up the hatnotes. Joost 99 (talk) 15:16, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Geology
The geology section of this article is rather sparse, considering the significance of the Danube in shaping central and eastern Europe. The age of the river, and its role in filling the Pliocene Pannonian Sea to form the Pannonian Basin should be expanded, along with some better linkage to the Iron Gate (of which there are lots of images but no proper accompanying text. Fig (talk) 10:55, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Transformation plans
I found new article on the transformation plans, but reluctant to iplement it now. Forcing the Danube to go straight in Croatia. Feel free to join the work. Ukrained2012 (talk) 13:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Map
Where is THE REAL MAP OF THE DANUBE?!Every map of the Danube river is different!There are 2 maps of the Danube,but which is the real?!--Nikinikolananov (talk) 09:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Image clarifications sought
The two images, 'The Danube by Visegrád', and 'The Danube by Esztergom', are a bit confusing as to which side is Slovakia and which is Hungary. In both images, the bend in the river would indicate that they were photographed from the Slovak side of the river as it flows south. Unless, they are reversed negatives or the Danube has a reverse "S" curve where the images were taken? Just curious.Ineuw (talk) 20:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Mislabelled image The image labelled as “Budapest on the Danube” is mislabelled. The cupola in the picture is of the basilica in Esztergom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.117.1 (talk) 11:55, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

talijanski
dunav — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.60.85.68 (talk) 14:25, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

An error in the map provided
I'm not sure if this is the right procedure to bring an error to the attention of the authors of this article, but here it goes. On the map provided in the Danube article, the name Macedonia appears. Since there is still a dispute about the name of this region, it may be better to revise it to the "former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM)", which is the current official name of this country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.188.192 (talk) 09:14, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, the Map shows the German City Augsburg, but incorrectly labels it as "Augsberg" 217.92.226.82 (talk) 10:51, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Cities and towns
The text says, "The Danube flows through many cities, including four national capitals (shown below in bold), more than any other river in the world. Ordered from the source to the mouth they are:..." It then goes on to consolidate the locations by country, and lists ALL in Romania AFTER Bulgaria, Moldova, and Ukraine. This will not do. I will work up a replacement in a sandbox. FeatherPluma (talk) 22:37, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect Picture Caption
Unfortunately the caption "Panoramic shot of the Donau (Danube) river passing by Vienna, Austria." is incorrect on two points. It is not really of the Danube- it is of Alte Donau, a former tributary of the river, and nor is passing by since it has no connection to it. Either the picture caption should be changed or the image should be swapped. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Global aviator (talk • contribs) 16:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Countries of the Danube (reprise)
Shucks, according to my observing, whilst floating downriver wid my friend Jim, da Danube never does drove into Czech Republic, Slovenia, Bosnia/Herzegovina, nor Montenegro! Not a'tall! Cuz' we got to da sea of Ebony wid nary a sight of 'em! Those folks who right books ain't hardly stretched thar' legs none, much less gone to see what thar righten 'bout... -- do ncr  am  04:11, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Explanations
-Sombrero19- and an IP editor 178.48.229.120 (who are likely the same person) try to remove an image. The problem is not this, as (s)he (they?) might be very well right about it, the problem is that no explanations / arguments were presented even after an editor expressed concerns about the removal. I would like to ask -Sombrero19- (and/or the IP editor) that in such cases use the Talk page or at least provide sufficient explanations in the edit tags. Especially, edit wars must be avoided, thus, after someone reverted an edit, instead of a re-revert, a discussion should be started. Thank you, K &oelig;rte F  a   { ταλκ }  12:05, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140313154833/http://www.strassederkaiserundkoenige.at/fileadmin/user_upload/Brosch%C3%BCren/ARGE_Donau_%C3%96sterreich2013.pdf to http://www.strassederkaiserundkoenige.at/fileadmin/user_upload/Brosch%C3%BCren/ARGE_Donau_%C3%96sterreich2013.pdf

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External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.iawd.at/cms/pages/en/the-danube.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111023101801/http://danubemap.eu/dunadrava to http://danubemap.eu/dunadrava
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111024011005/http://danubemap.eu/podunavlje to http://danubemap.eu/podunavlje
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The Length of Danube
The official number in the table on the right gives a length of around 2,850km (1,770 miles), found also in the Britannica data. The free text gives a number around 1,960km (continues to flow SE...). Fractals are confusing again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.127.84.206 (talk) 10:13, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

More, the second paragraph of the text has 2,860 km (1,780 mi) but the data box on the right has 2,780 km (1,727 mi) in it. Someone, please match them at least. Yogurt (talk) 05:32, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Question:
Navigable rivers are rated by "class." What class of river is the Danube?

Danube & Blue Danube
Did we cover river covers major borderlines in the Balkans?
 * Blue Danube, beautiful Strauss waltz, joseph lhevinne played it in the 1940's, do we have article covering his version, its supreme piano playing others tried to cover!

talijanski
dunav je lijepa rijeka s pomalo lista

talijanski
dunav je lijepa rijeka s pomalo lista

Removal of cited content by Borsoka
has removed cited content with the edit summary WP:Fringe (1) The Greek name of the river (Istros) shows that the native Thracians did not call it Donaris (2) Romanian descended from Vulgar Latin, consequently it could hardly directly preserve a pre-Latin name. (3) Donaris is a hypothetical form, consequently one cannot state, but only propose/assume that the Romanian form descended from it. They subsequently reverted my revert of that with "read the edit summary". There seems to be some confusion about WP:OR here. Arguments made from logic and personal knowledge have no standing against a valid citation. —DIYeditor (talk) 23:09, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I suggest you should read both the edit summary and the article before reverting and accussing other editors of OR. (1) The statement that the Thracian name was Istros (as it is attested by the Greek name of the river) is based on a referenced statement in the article. Do you think the same river was called both Istros and Donaris by the same people? (2) That Romanian is a Romance language is a well-established fact (for further details I refer to works cited in the article dedicated to the Romanian language and Romance languages). Do you think a Romance language preserved a non-Latin river name instead of the Latin form? (3) The asterisk (*) before the name Donaris shows that it is a hypothetical form (a form which is not attested in written sources). Why do you think that one can state that a modern form descended from a hypothetical form, if the hypothetical form itself is only a proposal. Summarizing, the statement that I deleted quite obviously represents a fringe theory. If you insist on presenting it, the statement should be radically modified and the internal contradictions about the Thracian form of the river name in the text should be addressed. Borsoka (talk) 01:58, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Are you challenging the source? On what grounds? Just because you think by your logic it contradicts something else doesn't give you the prerogative to remove cited material. Also, you should not try to warn editors about 3RR when your WP:EDITWARing - 3RR also does not give the prerogative to make edit war edits right up to 3. —DIYeditor (talk) 05:00, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Would you read what I wrote above? It is not me who challenges the source, but the source contradicts to other sources cited in the article about the Thracian form of the river's name. Furthermore, a hypothesis cannot be presented as a fact, as per WP:NPOV. Borsoka (talk) 05:18, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * It is you who challenges the source. If there is a conflict between reliable sources usually we attribute the differing opinions to the individual sources. I see what you mean about the phrasing of the hypothetical word as a fact, but that does not invalidate the source on its own, although that could speak to editorial oversight (or lack of it) if it is worded that way in the original text. —DIYeditor (talk) 21:10, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I still think that a fringe theory should not be presented. If you want to present it, the text should be modified significantly and a proper background should be added, as per WP:NPOV. Borsoka (talk) 06:49, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Name:
Danube=Living (i.e Vigorous) Wide River? See English be, Latin vita, Greek bio. After all, almost all the names with a clear final vowel end in an /iː/ sound or has it before a grammatical o or other grammatical vowel... Houses39 (talk) 00:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Dunube Zubeyr nuur ahmed (talk) 09:50, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Zubeyr nuur ahmed Zubeyr nuur ahmed (talk) 09:51, 18 August 2020 (UTC)