Talk:Dar Mustapha Pacha

June 2017
M.Bitton (talk) 21:15, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) I restored the deleted sourced content (the construction start date and the fact that it's a Moorish palace). I see no reason to ignore what Nabila Oulebsir and Jean-Louis Cohen have to say about this palace.
 * 2) I removed the definite article since all the sources don't use it. Just as in Notre-Dame de Paris, it doesn't make sense and risks confusing the readers.
 * 3) Per MOS:FORLANG, I removed the irrelevant foreign language equivalent.
 * 4) The given alternative spelling for this palace is highly unusual. I removed it per MOS:BOLD.
 * 5) The "Ottoman-built palace" statement is not supported by any of the source provided. It's WP:OR and has been removed.


 * What two authors who have nothing to do with either architecture or its history have to say (in passing, while getting not just one date wrong, but two in a single sentence) about this palace is irrelevant. I restored the properly sourced version. M.Bitton (talk) 23:41, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Reliability
The book Islam: Art and Architecture, edited by Markus Hattstein and ‎Peter Delius, is a very respected publication used by Islamic Art historians and students. It has been reprinted on several occations, including editions 2000, 2007 , 2013 , 2015. It has also been published into numerous other languages including French, German , Italian , Spanish ), and Turkish.

The book is often listed in the reading lists of many respected institutions, including the Oxford University’s course on “Aspects of Islamic Art, Architecture and Archaeology”, and the Victoria and Albert Museum’s Islamic art & medieval Europe reading list.

The book is also cited by many academic books, including:
 * Julio Bermudez & Julio Cesar Bermúdez (2015) Transcending Architecture, CUA Press, pages 274, 300
 * Jocelyne Cesari (2007) Encyclopedia of Islam in the United States, Greenwood Press, page 89
 * Linda Komaroff & Stefano Carboni (2002)The Legacy of Genghis Khan: Courtly Art and Culture in Western Asia, 1256-1353, Metropolitan Museum of Art, page 297
 * Gülru Neci̇poğlu & Julia Bailey (2008) Frontiers of Islamic Art and Architecture, BRILL, pages ix & 146
 * Lawrence Nees (2015) Perspectives on Early Islamic Art in Jerusalem, BRILL, pages 102, 172
 * Ziauddin Sardar (2011) Reading the Qur'an: The Contemporary Relevance of the Sacred Text of Islam, Oxford University Press,
 * Helaine Selin (2008) Encyclopaedia of the History of Science, Technology, and Medicine in Non-Western Cultures, Springer, page 198
 * Susan Sinclair (2012) Bibliography of Art and Architecture in the Islamic World, BRILL, pages 4, 7, 194, 202
 * Tarek Swelim (2015) Ibn Tulun: His Lost City and Great Mosque, British Academic Press, pages 22, 270, 278
 * Christopher Tadgell (2008) Islam: From Medina to the Magreb and from the Indies to Istanbul, Routledge, page 652

Furthermore, it is also used in several other wikipedia articles including: Baghdad, Basil Al Bayati, History of architecture, Iranian architecture,  Mosque of las Tornerías, Round city of Baghdad.

Thus, there is no indication to suggest that it is an unreliable source. On the contrary, it is a core book for many academics/students studying Islamic Art. O.celebi (talk) 13:01, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * WP:RSCONTEXT. The reliability of a source depends on context. Here we have erroneous information provided in passing:
 * Dar Mustapha Pacha was built between 1798 (not 1789 as the book states) and 1799.
 * Dar Mustapha Pacha hasn't been a national library since the 1950s (the book states that it was still a library in 2000).
 * Dar Aziza was first mentioned in 1721 (not 1712). The fact that it doesn't say by whom and in what context makes it worse.
 * Clearly, this source is unreliable for the statement made.
 * M.Bitton (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Filiz Yenişehirlioğlu source
Prof Dr. Filiz Yenişehirlioğlu is a Archaeology and History of Art faculty member at Turkey's highest ranked Koç University. She is a respected academic who has been awarded numerous awards including the Chevalier dans l’Ordre des Arts et des Letters (French Ministry of Culture, 1991), the Adelaide Ristori award (Rome, 1992), and the "Europa Nostra Diploma" award (EU, 2006). Moreover, she is consistently cited by many respected art historians, and Ottoman historians in general, including John Freely  and Suraiya Faroqhi, to name a few. I can provide many examples if anyone wishes. O.celebi (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The source is irelevant since it doesn't say anything about the primary topic. No other explanation is needed to keep it out of the article.
 * The source does not state that the palaces of Casbah are Ottoman palaces (once again, you're misrepresenting the sources).
 * M.Bitton (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

UNESCO: Kasbah of Algiers
UNESCO states the palaces of the Kasbah of Algiers to be "Ottoman palaces" under Criterion (v). O.celebi (talk) 14:13, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Since she doesn't say anything about the primary topic, her CV is irelevant.
 * Please, familiaze yourself with MOS:FORLANG and stop introducing irelevant foreign equivalents in the lead sentence.
 * M.Bitton (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2017 (UTC)