Talk:Dark Chronicle

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

move.


 * Talk:Dark Cloud 2 — Dark Cloud 2 → Dark Chronicle – Dark Chronicle is the proper name, Dark Cloud 2 is what the American marketing division decided to release it as. &mdash; Ian Moody (talk) 12:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Voting

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~ 


 * Support &mdash; Ian Moody (talk) 12:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Support, but make the Dark Cloud 2 entry redirect to Dark Chronicle. InvaderJim42 23:31, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Support what InvaderJim said. --Naha|(talk) 01:23, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Most common names are used for article titles, and this sets nasty precedent. Shall we move Transformers: Cybertron to Transformers: Galaxy Force? How 'bout Pokémon to Pocket Monsters? Because they were changed for American audiences doesn't dismiss their validity as names. (Although, Transformers: Cybertron was probably conceived before Transformers: Galaxy Force. Galaxy Force just got shown first.) ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 14:02, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * As an additional note, the Google test gives 191,000 for "Dark cloud 2". "Dark chronicle" gets 160,000. "Dark chronicle"+PS2 Gets only 78,000. For the curious, "Dark cloud 2"+PS2 gets 138,000. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 02:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Support it is known as Dark Chronicle in two regions and only as Dark Cloud 2 in one (Although admittedly probably the largest) Tim! (talk) 17:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I'm still somewhat confused on the title
Is Dark Chronicle the Japanese title, too? Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 11:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the European AND Japanese versions of Dark Cloud 2 are called Dark Chronicle.

I have added the titles of the books that have this same title and are trademarked as The Dark Chronicles by Cynthia Soroka —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docclint (talk • contribs) 17:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed them, as they have nothing to do with the game. Dreaded Walrus t c 18:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The characters
I added much more information about the characters, more recently I added some on Gaspard. I said he was born of two species, but I forget what species his father was. Was it an elf or a centaur...or...? Can someone tell me please, and say if you have any problems with the explainations of the characters. Leemorrison 14:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * At the moment I can't recall if it's in his death speech or before the last time you fight with him and Gaspard reveals to Max and Monica that his father was a Changeling. Or maybe that he himself is a Changling due to his father's species.  Oh well, I can always replay the fight.  Bear Eagleson

I recently replayed and his father was the changling. -jaosel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.9.6.203 (talk • contribs)

Dark Cloud 2
The game is more known as Dark Cloud 2. It first came out in English speaking countries as Dark Cloud 2. It has priority over the European version and priority over the Japanese version simply because the Japanese version has little bearing on the en.wiki. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * But wasn't it made by a Japanese developer? The name should be judged on source, ie Level-5 Japan, and the source calls it Dark Chronicle. Leemorrison 15:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If that were the case then MANY articles would have to be changed based on the "source." Personally I think it's time for another move vote. Several people have clearly been confused when they come to English wikipedia and find the game listed under the JP/EU name.--Claude 19:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The game is more well-known as Dark Cloud 2. Because it's known as Dark Chronicle in two regions does not mean we should change it - Hell, even one of the regions you mention isn't a factor. We don't cater to people from that region. And additionally, it was released in North America first. - A Link to the Past (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's MUCH more well-known as Dark Chronicle since THE ENTIRE WORLD apart from North America knows this as Dark Chronicle. Those are lots of people. The English Wikipedia is the international version of Wikipedia (not the US version), and its design and layout should reflect that. (Djungelurban 21:49, 23 January 2007 (UTC))

Requested move (2)

 * I request that Dark Chronicle be moved back to Dark Cloud 2. It is the more common title, and it was released in North America first. Just because the EU and JP versions share the same name doesn't counter recognizeability. If we did, Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day! would be redirected to Dr. Kawashima's Brain Training: How Old Is Your Brain?. - A Link to the Past (talk) 15:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Is the more common title the more accurate title? Serious question. --badlydrawnjeff talk 01:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, both are accurate, Jeff. While it was Dark Chronicle in Japan, it is most well-known as Dark Cloud 2 for English gamers. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me rephrase the question, as I wasn't clear. Both titles are accurate, yes, but one would be more accurate.  The US Final Fantasy III, for instance, is really Final Fantasy VI (or whatever it really is.  That game should be at Final Fantasy VI because it's the actual, proper title.  Of Dark Cloud 2 and Dark Chronicle, which one is the FFIV? --badlydrawnjeff talk 01:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It is now referred to as FFVI because of Final Fantasy Anthology, which officially renamed FFIII as FFVI. There is no issue with Dark Cloud 2 - it was not renamed as Dark Chronicle, and because the game is noticeably more well-known than Dark Chronicle, the only reason to keep it as Dark Chronicle is because the European and Japanese versions share the same name. - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

A quick Google suggests both Dark Chronicle and Dark Cloud 2 are roughly equal in terms of usage. -- Steel 10:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Voting

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~ 


 * Support. - A Link to the Past (talk) 15:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Support of moving back to "Dark Cloud 2" and redirect Dark Chronicle there. The argument based on using Chronicle because of "sourcing" would also assert we need to move Sakura Wars to either "Sakura Taisen" or "Cherry Blossom Great War."  So then you have the US title, "Dark Cloud 2," or the EU title, "Dark Chronicle," but the former sold more, and came out almost seven months earlier (source: GameFAQs.) Blue Crest 05:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Support I have changed my mind. Wikipedia gets visited by Americans most, so I suppose they would expect the American name. Leemorrison 11:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. If we're going by the Japanese names for everything that also has an English release, we might as well move tons and tons of anime and other video game articles. Dark Cloud 2 sold more, came out earlier, and is more common in usage. Voretus  talk  19:04, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Also apparently the page was originally at Dark Cloud 2. Voretus  talk  19:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. I remember having a similar argument on another Japanese-origin Article. This isn't the Wikipedia for Japanese, this is the English Wikipedia and the name should be Dark Cloud 2 BECAUSE as an English Wikipedia, we cater more to the Americans than the Europeans (it's population, man). As the only person who agreed last time said, more people go for Dark cloud 2 in Google than Dark Chronicle. --RavensIllusion (talk) 02:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Moved!
Now that the page has been moved back, I have to change everywhere where it says Dark Chronicle to Dark Cloud 2. Don't hesitate to fix any if I miss them. Leemorrison 15:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for move... yet again
I request Dark Chronicle should be move to its actual name. This part of Wikipedia is the international version of Wikipedia, therefore things on this site should carry its international name as standard. This game was ONLY Dark Cloud 2 in North America while it was Dark Chronicle in the rest of the world. The design of the documents of this site should therefore reflect the international names as standard and as Wikipedia grows this will be only become more apparent. The Internet (and Wikipedia) is growing quicker outside the US than inside the US so in due time this will be pressured into changing anyway. Let's beat it to the punch. Dark Chronicle is for all intents and purposes the correct title.

Also, as stated on the top of this page, consensus was reached long ago that this game were to be listed as Dark Chronicle and somehow this happened to become ignored and overridden months later. Not sure if that's all right really. (Djungelurban 13:49, 28 January 2007 (UTC))
 * Consensus can change. Specifically getting rid of North American naming without regards to other factors is also against Wikipedia conventions, though a policy to set naming as one way or the other would be a good idea. You might want to take it up at one of the many Wikipedia: namespace policy pages. Voretus 19:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Change the name of the article to Dark Chronicle. Dark Cloud 2 is only used in two countries. Having it any other way is foolish.
 * The only argument you have is that Dark Chronicle is used in Europe, Japan, and probably Australia. You have no sales figures to indicate Dark Chronicle is the more common title. The only sales figures we have are sales figures you don't have and I do, for Dark Cloud 2 in North America. We do, however, have the fact that in English-speaking countries, it is more known as Dark Cloud 2, and we have that DC2 came before Dark Chronicle in Europe or Australia. At no point is there any American bias in using Dark Cloud 2. - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Why do people seem to think "English speaking" and "North American" are synonyms? As the name of the language may well give away, it originated in England. This is in Europe, where the game is called "Dark Chronicle". It's also used in Australia, where the game is called "Dark Chronicle". I think we should not ignore the fact the name "Dark Chronicle" is in English anyway; the name change was purely for North American marketing. If you like, "Dark Cloud 2" is a version of the game "Dark Chronicle", and should be listed as such rather than vice versa. 87.194.7.55 12:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Dark Chronicle is the original name - that has to count for something. Also, Dark Chronicle has more Google hits though all of them might not be related to the game. --Mika1h 23:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm also of the opinion this article should be at Dark Chronicle. As has been mentioned, the game was created as Dark Chronicle, and merely renamed to Dark Cloud 2 for the US market.
 * It's the same with Sega Mega Drive. It was created as Mega Drive, and renamed Genesis for the US market. It doesn't mean we have it at Sega Genesis.
 * It's the same with Bully. It was created as Bully, but later renamed to Canis Canem Edit for the UK market. It doesn't mean we have it at Canis Canem Edit.
 * To have Bully at Canis Canem Edit, or Mega Drive at Genesis would be silly, as it was only renamed that for one territory. --Dreaded Walrus t c 05:30, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Too many points look to Dark Chronicle for me (again, I change my mind). Not ONLY is this a Japanese game, by a Japanese developer, named Dark Chronicle by the Japanese, it is also named Dark Chronicle in Europe, where a large amount speak English. The Pokémon article(for example) is called Pokemon because it is called that in nearly everywhere but Japan. But here this is not the case - it's named Dark Chronicle in BOTH Japan, where it was made, and Europe, where English is common. Therefore, Dark Chronicle looks to be the obvious option. Leemorrison 14:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Lists
Although many of these lists are my own work, they are a bit uncyclopaedic, so we're going to have to remove some of them... But what do you propose we replace them with? The most unnecessary lists are the Party Members list and the Soundtrack list. The characters should all be summarised and maybe even some removed. The amount of the plot we're giving away here is staggering - can someone say "Copyright Infringement"? I need to make sure you people agree with me. Leemorrison 16:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess some of the lists are a bit large. I think the secondary characters list should stay, but now that I look back, I really think the track listing for the soundtrack should be removed. Master Jaken 16:26, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, should we try and place some of them on seperate pages? Like List of Characters in Dark Chronicle and Dark Chronicle Soundtrack? We can probably keep Max, Monica and Griffon, and even those need a bit of rewriting because they're hard to read. Agreed? Leemorrison 20:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC) I'll add I'm not sure what to do about the list of places... Perhaps we should try to make the descriptions smaller and make a kind of table...? Leemorrison 21:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've moved out the Soundtrack to a new page. The article needs a bit of work, but it's there and I think it definetly needed to be moved out. Now I need agreements on the other sections. Leemorrison 21:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Does anyone like the idea of using this table? User:Leemorrison/subpage1

If so I'll continue it and stick it up, and the extra bits of my characters can be placed on the subpage if you want to propose putting them into the table.


 * SEE MY BOLDNESS AND LIKE IT! Ahem, characters moved to a new page! Leemorrison 14:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia section
I have to get this worked out as well. I don't think any of them are especially relevant, apart from perhaps the last one. Leemorrison 18:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Some of it is plain wrong, too. I know this isn't a forum, but Dark Chronicle cannot be a prequel because in Max's timeline and Monica's original timeline, the planet has two moons just like in Dark Cloud. Further, evidence of which Dark Cloud town or dungeon the area used to be is fairly evident in Rainbow Butterfly Wood's unusable Back Floor connections. Of course I won't get into the paradoxes that would prevent Max from ever existing in the first place. Bear Eagleson —Preceding comment was added at 23:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: The characters
Yes, Gaspard's father was a changling; not him. I will change it if necessary.

Requested move (3)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Dark Cloud 2 → Dark Chronicle — It is only called Dark Cloud 2 in 1 part of the world, it was originally called Dark Chronicle AND is called Dark Chronicle in other english-speaking areas. —Leemorrison 20:24, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support The game is only known as Dark Cloud 2 in one region. oopsadoodle  ( § ) 11:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Support As has been mentioned, the game was created as Dark Chronicle, and merely renamed to Dark Cloud 2 for the US market. It's the same thing with Sega Mega Drive: It was created as Mega Drive, and renamed Genesis for the US market. Doesn't mean we have it at Sega Genesis. It's the same thing with Bully: It was created as Bully, but later renamed to Canis Canem Edit for the UK market. Doesn't mean we have it at Canis Canem Edit. To have Bully at Canis Canem Edit, or Mega Drive at Genesis would be silly, as it was only renamed that for one territory, and the same goes for Dark Cloud 2/Dark Chronicle. --Dreaded Walrus t c 11:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

It is probably worth noting that even the article itself seems to admit that Dark Cloud 2 is the minority name: "Dark Cloud 2 (or Dark Chronicle in countries other than the U.S. and Canada)" In countries other than the US and Canada? Since when does it being renamed for one territory mean it should be at that name? Again, it would be like having Bully (video game) located at Canis Canem Edit. And in that case, it would even allow us to get rid of the disambiguation brackets. But it would still be silly. --Dreaded Walrus t c 11:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 05:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The quality of the story outline
It's... atrocious. The structure, choice of words, phrasing.

Something should be done. The storyline should be split into sections, each describing the events of every chapter. A few paragraphs would be okay if the game didn't provide labels for each section of the game, but such is not the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.96.217 (talk) 23:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Tracklist changes/notes
I've made a couple changes to the original soundtrack tracklist, and I've fixed the name discrepancies on the premium arrange's tracklist.

I made an edit earlier changing "Charlotte" to "Sindain" and didn't mark it as a minor edit because it's a considerable difference. The reason for this change is that the tracklist already seemed to favor the English names over the Japanese ones. Take "Starlight Temple" for example; this name was favored over "Stella Magic Temple" even though the Katakana characters ステラ (su te ra) come out to mean "Stella" and the Hirgana characters 魔法 (mahou) mean "magic". Stella Temple is the name of the same area in the Japanese version, but Starlight Temple was chosen because that name matches the name of the music's area in the English version of the game (Dark Cloud 2). This paradigm was consistent throughout the tracklist except for the instance of Charlotte, which is the name corresponding to Sindain between the two versions of the game.

I changed "Gundor Volcano Grotto" to "Mount Gundor" also to match this. Gundor Volcano Grotto could be a description of the place rather than the name, but it would be the single track that wasn't named exactly after its corresponding area in the game, which would be odd. Hellacia (talk) 07:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I've added a subsection about whatever SIGCOV RSes have published on Dark Cloud 3 as a result of WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 February 25. Ben · Salvidrim!  &#9993;  21:35, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

TCRF and YouTube are not considered a reliable sources (see WP:VG/RS) for what you are trying to add to the article. And just generically citing Rogue Galaxy as a whole isn't helpful either. And even if the sourcing wasn't an issue, we don't need three paragraphs to explain something that could probably be done in 2 or 3 sentences. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

I can shorten it, but these are the only sources we have, so I'm not sure what you expect other than just wanting to have a shorter wiki page. Fans of the game would probably like to see it. The files on the disc are verifiable, so that isn't an unreliable source. TCRF, YT, and Game sources have been used in tons of other wikipedia articles. It provides the extra consensus too. Shazepe (talk) 12:31, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If it cannot be cited to realiable independent sources, it cannot be included in the Wikipedia article. Wikipedia's role is a tertiary source, to collige and cover content cited to primary and secondary sources, we do not produce or write any "original content" or anything beyond what can be cited to reliable sources. "Fans would like to see it" is meaningless in the context of determining whether content is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. "Fans would like to see it" is the kind of reasoning that sounds like the content might be suitable for venues like Fandom (Wikia). Ben · Salvidrim!   &#9993;  16:55, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * How about the files readily available from the disc? Those are not only a reliable source - but 100% verifiable.Shazepe (talk) 18:57, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , verifiable but notable? How does a self-reference pass WP:N? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:00, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * According to that page, yes it looks like it. The disc is not a "self reference" and it says secondary sources should be used too, I'll write a shorter bit about it Shazepe (talk) 12:37, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , reliable secondary sources. Not user-generated ones. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:50, 12 June 2021 (UTC)